Poll: Official 2024 United States Grand Prix Race Thread - Circuit of the Americas - Race 19/24

[Mr Jack]

I honestly don’t know why McLaren aren’t making a proper fuss about the rules here. They seriously need to man up.

What would be the point?

Lewis's car is no different from the one George is driving and look where he finished.

Well, not quite: Lewis was running the new parts which seem to have made the car really unstable - caught Russell out in Quali too. That said, I do think Russell had a seriously underrated race yesterday, going from back of the grid into the points and even passing one of the Red Bulls was great work.

 

[Jono8]

Lewis's car is no different from the one George is driving and look where he finished.

To be fair, they both had "offs" at the same corner during the weekend. Just Lewis's was in the race. The car seemed pretty inconsistent all weekend and George was saying the same.

**** weekend from Lewis though, no doubt. Every driver has really bad ones occasionally.

 

[AlphariusOmegan]

I think you're all being blinded to one simple fact, if Lando had backed out when he was off track and NOT passed Max then Max would have been given the penalty for forcing a driver off, but because Lando was determined to pass it cost him instead, it's a case of keep your head in the game and know the rules, use them to your advantage. If people are getting this upset maybe this sport isnt for you.

With regards to Lewis's spin they're blaming the car for that and not his driving.

 

[Scam]

British F1 Twitter seems to have decided that Derek Warwick is the antichrist

It’s clearly not lost on Toto who was stewarding there; https://www.planetf1.com/news/toto-...-correlations-bizarre-us-grand-prix-penalties

 

[iamtheoneneo]

I think you're all being blinded to one simple fact, if Lando had backed out when he was off track and NOT passed Max then Max would have been given the penalty for forcing a driver off, but because Lando was determined to pass it cost him instead, it's a case of keep your head in the game and know the rules, use them to your advantage. If people are getting this upset maybe this sport isnt for you.

With regards to Lewis's spin they're blaming the car for that and not his driving.

Welcome to modern F1 fans. Some peoples brains would have exploded with the stuff that used to happen over a decade ago.
Also hilarious that the commentary team called that it would be a penalty straight away - which even for Martin Brundle is super rare, yet people are still kicking up a fuss like the rules were broken.

you cant win. If some people here were being honest with themselves, they dont actually like F1. They just love the drama.

 

[Scam]

I think you're all being blinded to one simple fact, if Lando had backed out when he was off track and NOT passed Max then Max would have been given the penalty for forcing a driver off,

No he wouldn’t. Max would have got a track limits violation because he was “ahead at the apex” and therefore can do what he likes. According to the dumb **** rules anyway.

Secondly, why should Lando have to back out because the defending car out braked himself and ran wide? He was avoiding a collision with a slower car with a dangerous driver.

 

[koolpc]

Yes, I do dislike Max, because of this **** he pulls all the time.

I don't give a **** what Ant on his skypad says. It's awful to watch , unfair and rubbish racecraft.

Perfectly within the rules though.

Nobody would be moaning if it were Lando doing that...

 

[MooMoo444]

if Lando had backed out when he was off track and NOT passed Max then Max would have been given the penalty for forcing a driver off

Brazil 2021 ptsd

 

[Jono8]

Perfectly within the rules though.

Nobody would be moaning if it were Lando doing that...

It's not within the rules. The rules were not correctly applied.

 

[uscool]

Perfectly within the rules though.

Nobody would be moaning if it were Lando doing that...

But for one it's common occurrence with this one it's just lando is getting the end of it now , Lewis, Charles before

 

[Mesai]

It's not within the rules. The rules were not correctly applied.

Max was ahead at the apex. Norris overtook off track - seems clear cut.

Norris was heading for a very wide, if not off the track overtake anyway. Very easy to see from the onboard.

 

[AlphariusOmegan]

No he wouldn’t. Max would have got a track limits violation because he was “ahead at the apex” and therefore can do what he likes. According to the dumb **** rules anyway.

Secondly, why should Lando have to back out because the defending car out braked himself and ran wide? He was avoiding a collision with a slower car with a dangerous driver.

Yes he would have, the stewards were consistent in that.

It's not within the rules. The rules were not correctly applied.

I'm genuinely curious, please could you elaborate on why they were not correctly applied?

 

[Jono8]

Max was ahead at the apex. Norris overtook off track - seems clear cut.

Norris was heading for a very wide, if not off the track overtake anyway. Very easy to see from the onboard.

If Norris is not allowed to take the place, then Max should get a penalty as well for leaving the track and gaining advantage or should have been asked to let Norris pass anyway.

You can't retain a place on the track by outbraking yourself and missing the track entirely. That is textbook "leaving the track, and gaining an advantage". Would be no different than *****"* up your braking and taking a run off or cutting a corner to stay ahead.

 

[Kenai]

Probably worth posting the full text of the 'non-binding' guidelines again for reference:

1. Guidelines for overtaking on the inside of a corner:
In order for a car being overtaken to be required to give sufficient room to an overtaking car, theovertaking car needs to have a significant portion of the car alongside the car being overtaken and the overtaking manoeuvre must be done in a safe and controlled manner, while enabling the car to clearly remain within the limits of the track.

When considering what is a ‘significant portion’ for an overtaking on the inside of a corner, among the various factors that will be looked at by the stewards when exercising their discretion, the stewards will consider if the overtaking car’s front tires are alongside the other car by no later than the apex of the corner.”

2. Guidelines for overtaking on the outside of a corner:
“In order for a car being overtaken to be required to give sufficient room to an overtaking car, the overtaking car needs to have a significant portion of the car alongside the car being overtaken and the overtaking manoeuvre must be done in a safe and controlled manner, while enabling the car to clearly remain within the limits of the track.

When considering what is a ‘significant portion’, for an overtaking on the outside of a corner, among the various factors that will be looked at by the stewards when exercising their discretion, the stewards will consider if the overtaking car is ahead of the other car from the apex of the corner.

The car being overtaken must be capable of making the corner while remaining within the limits of the track.”

It's that last line that results in people getting annoyed when the car being overtaken isn't capable of making the corner due to braking so late that they can claim to be 'ahead at the apex' and all that happens is the other car gets a slightly reduced penalty.

 

[uscool]

Max was ahead at the apex. Norris overtook off track - seems clear cut.

Norris was heading for a very wide, if not off the track overtake anyway. Very easy to see from the onboard.

Well the rules need changing then , he wasn't in control otherwise he wouldn't have gone off track defending because he went too fast into the corner too occupied blocking lando out

 

[Jono8]

Yes he would have, the stewards were consistent in that.

I'm genuinely curious, please could you elaborate on why they were not correctly applied?

Because Max left the track and gained an advantage too. By the rules he should get a penalty also.

I don't think any one supporting Max and the stewards are thinking about this logically.

Let's for arguments sake, say that instead of running wide, Max simply cut the corner to stay ahead of Norris. This does not force Norris out wide, so Norris doesn't leave the track or get past Max. Surely Max should get a penalty, or hand the place to Norris? Remember, Norris was actually slightly ahead of Max going into the braking zone as well.

If any driver takes a run off or cuts a corner to stay ahead, they'd have to concede the place or take a penalty. It doesn't make sense that you can use the outside of the track to your advantage like that(whilst forcing another driver even further off to take evasive action), but not the inside/shortcuts...

The apex argument is irrelevant. It's still leaving the track to gain an advantage.

 

[Mesai]

Well the rules need changing then , he wasn't in control otherwise he wouldn't have gone off track defending because he went too fast into the corner too occupied blocking lando out

Probably. No point blaming the driver though.

 

[Kenai]

Because Max left the track and gained an advantage too.

Rules refer to gaining a 'lasting advantage' - hard to argue Max gained a lasting advantage when he lost the place.

Drivers must make every reasonable effort to use the track at all times and may not leave the track without a justifiable reason.

Drivers will be judged to have left the track if no part of the car remains in contact with it and, for the avoidance of doubt, any white lines defining the track edges are considered to be part of the track but the kerbs are not.

Should a car leave the track the driver may re-join, however, this may only be done when it is safe to do so and without gaining any lasting advantage.

At the absolute discretion of the Race Director a driver may be given the opportunity to give back the whole of any advantage he gained by leaving the track.

 

[Jono8]

Rules refer to gaining a 'lasting advantage' - hard to argue Max gained a lasting advantage when he lost the place.

But he did gain a lasting advantage when they gave the penalty to Norris/put him back behind Max.

Thatswhy the FIA should have stayed out of it, or given them both penalties (according to the rules).

 

[Kenai]

But he did gain a lasting advantage when they gave the penalty to Norris/put him back behind Max.

If Norris had immediately relinquished the position, then I think you'd have a good argument that Max then had the lasting advantage by having left the track to enable him to keep his position.

I don't think the argument holds water that subsequently benefitting from another driver's punishment you yourself received a lasting advantage that deserves it's own penalty.