*** Official Elder Scrolls MMO Thread ***

Oh shut up with your condescending ****. I have never played WOW at all.

I am not talking about a guy getting there two seconds before me and opening the case. When I get that to that region after exploring, the guy who gets there 20 minutes before me finds the case and opens it. I do the same exploring but I get nothing.

It's not that it might happen, it is happening.

With mining and gathering it's no big swing because you just run along and find the next one. You don't have to go out of the way to get them. IT's not about that either. I have no problem with a guy getting to a resource before me.

It's specifically about the rewards Zenimax have gone and on and on about for encouraging people to explore. It's an MMO sure, but, firstly it's PVE, I am not in a competition with anyone else. There is a whole PVP world for that. Secondly, it's still my game experience.

If it's case that other people are affecting the world around you, why are barrels/crates/sacks lootable by everyone? Shouldn't they work the same as gathering? Is that not ruining the whole MMO experience for you?


Never mind that you quoted me all out of context. I was giving out that the loot inside chests is rubbish. Not worth the bother of going exploring for. Coupled with the fact that when you do find an out of the way location the chest is usually gone, found by somebody else. The loot inside is definitely not worth waiting for. And if you quoted my sentence right to the end you would see I said that Rarer chests with better loot would be a more encouraging system.

i see this the complete opposite to you,if i knew no one else could take that chest or node from me i wouldn't want that chest/node so much it brings much more excitement to getting chests and nodes and makes it more special when u get one rather than oh there's a chest there i will grab it in a minute when ive done this,sadly u seem to see it in a negative way.

i hope they dont change things because of whiners i believe people have ruined a lot of games due to there "needs" as has been said people expect everything to be easy and handed to them there is no feeling of pride for achieving something when anyone can do it and its easy,people want free games now and have created something i believe is a growing cancer in the gaming industry.

The problem lies with the Consumer thinking they want this and that and they don't see the impact they are having by getting what they want within the way games are made and play.
 
Short version: If you want to be made to feel special (regardless of whether you are or not), go play Skyrim.

If you want to have to work for your rewards, play ESO. I've had no problem finding chests out in the wilds. Occasionally someone will get to one first, but then again, occasionally they've failed the master lockpick and had to stand and watch while I opened their chest :D

Man up and deal with it, it's not the end of the world.
 
Could be worse I suppose, my favourite MMO was UO and in that game, not only were the resources the same (in that if they got to them first they got them), but after they got them they would turn around and kill you and then loot all of the resources you had gathered off your body (along with all of your armour and items :D )

Loved those days ! Going out into the wilds was truly going out into the wilds :D
 
Ok I better explain myself a bit better. My rant was because the guy who quoted me picked a sentence out of the middle of a paragraph completely out of context.

Here is what I mean in a little more detail. Then I will respond to the quotes below.

The chests at the moment are rubbish, they are everywere, nobody has to go out of their way to find them, the loot inside them is generally crap, mudcrabs have better drops and if you do go exploring to far, out of the way places the loot in the chest isn't worth it normally and for the amounts of time the chest is gone when you get there. It's really not worth the while exploring.

I don't mind if they keep the whoever gets there first, that's fine. But, make the chests something worth finding. Reduce the numbers of chests, so it feels like an actual accomplishment when you do find one.

i see this the complete opposite to you,if i knew no one else could take that chest or node from me i wouldn't want that chest/node so much it brings much more excitement to getting chests and nodes and makes it more special when u get one rather than oh there's a chest there i will grab it in a minute when ive done this,sadly u seem to see it in a negative way.

i hope they dont change things because of whiners i believe people have ruined a lot of games due to there "needs" as has been said people expect everything to be easy and handed to them there is no feeling of pride for achieving something when anyone can do it and its easy,people want free games now and have created something i believe is a growing cancer in the gaming industry.

The problem lies with the Consumer thinking they want this and that and they don't see the impact they are having by getting what they want within the way games are made and play.

I don't understand this post at all. It's PVE, you aren't in competition with anyone. In older style MMO's you had to fight to get your resources, you were in direct competition with other people. That still exists in PVP, but, not in PVE. PVE is all about grouping, working together, that's why it's there. It's for those people who want to play with other people, with friends etc. But not go into the more hardcore side of things of fighting other players.

As for the resources, they are everywhere, it's no big deal if you miss one. Same with the chests, so why feel good because you get to an iron ore/chests a few seconds before another player? That brings you excitement? getting to a node before another guy? Really? A node that is going to be back in less than a minute.

So me saying that there should be less chests around is somehow destroying MMOs?

Short version: If you want to be made to feel special (regardless of whether you are or not), go play Skyrim.

If you want to have to work for your rewards, play ESO. I've had no problem finding chests out in the wilds. Occasionally someone will get to one first, but then again, occasionally they've failed the master lockpick and had to stand and watch while I opened their chest :D

Man up and deal with it, it's not the end of the world.

LOL, really? Work for my rewards? You think it's some an achievement to get to a chest first? LOL It isn't. There are so many chests, resources etc it's no challenge at all.

that's my point, it's no challenge, it's simple to get resources, chests, anything. It's easy. The only problem is there is too much and you spend so much time managing your inventory.

Which goes completely against all the talk. There is nothing to be gained from exploring. All the points are marked on the map. All the quests that can be got, can be found by visting all these points. If you go to an area where there is nothing, you won't find hidden quests, or special chests or anything.

Take for example Daggerfall, just outside the city, with no exploring needed there is about 7-8 chests to be found. And you are trying to tell me that I need to work for my rewards? LOL It's easy in this game.

I don't want to be rewarded for doing nothing.

Could be worse I suppose, my favourite MMO was UO and in that game, not only were the resources the same (in that if they got to them first they got them), but after they got them they would turn around and kill you and then loot all of the resources you had gathered off your body (along with all of your armour and items :D )

Loved those days ! Going out into the wilds was truly going out into the wilds :D

and that was fine and enjoyable, because that was the challenge. But there is nothing to be gained from this in a PVE enviornment. Resources spawn so quickly. Chests spawn nearly as quickly. I don't see what is the difference in just leaving the resources and chests there lootable for everyone all the time and the way it is now. Gathering resources is simple, just find a spot where there are 3-4 nodes and work away.

My frustration is just like I said, there is no point in exploring the map outside of going between the different areas already marked on the map. That the person who does no exploring and just hangs around outside of Daggerfall will probably get more rewards than I will while exploring remote areas.
 
My frustration is just like I said, there is no point in exploring the map outside of going between the different areas already marked on the map. That the person who does no exploring and just hangs around outside of Daggerfall will probably get more rewards than I will while exploring remote areas.

I am most likely just a different person, with different tastes is all. You see I get a lot out of exploring the map off the beaten track, I find lots of cool looking places, the occasional interesting piece of lore or amusing easter egg and some nicely thought out little isolated stories. I'm really not all that concerned whether or not other people who don't explore are getting more rewards than me or how my rewards compare to theirs, my reward is in enjoying myself and part of that is the things I've listed above. UO and Daoc are my 2 favourite MMOs of all time, both MMOs with rubbish and bland loot systems in terms of rewards, so its not something which has ever been much of a factor for me. I can see what you are saying and your reasons for it, its just something which is a total non-issue for me that's all
 
The problem is, we now have three kinds of gamer which the success of this is hinged on and whom really define the current generation.

1) The Call of Duty gamer; defined by quick fire rounds, devoid of any real strategy being used by most players and achievement is not actually challenging simply gained through point + shoot + hundreds of hours rinse and repeat in a very small closed world. I know plenty of people who put in more COD game time than WoW ever took.

2) The modern World of Warcraft gamer; defined by high time investment = very high rewards but where the elitist challenge of early WoW went long ago and is forgotten by many. I haven't played wow properly in years but I remember when people wearing epics were the exception not the norm and how it changed so dramatically over time. People forget how long ago WoW started, which was back in a time people still used portable CD players, mobile phones were cutting edge if 'snake' could be played in colour and socialising was achieved by sitting in a pub talking to people face-to-face.

3) The Angry Bird gamer; defined by simple, fun and totally addictive mini games on phones more powerful than average gaming PCs from the start of the WoW era.

It seems to me that at the moment ESO is ideal for the more hard core mmorpg'er, aligned with the original first few years of WoW or EVE, UO etc which is not a large enough market to sustain it in the face of all other big game titles competing for gamers time at the moment.

Gamers (the bulk of) have moved on in their expectations of the in game experience and the reason WoW survived is because it moved with them.

I know loads of people who played Skyrim and loved it but had no concept of the wider game or its full potential and were simply content in completing the main quest in 20-30ish hours. Most didn't even realise the depth of the world, guilds and wider challenges nor did they look for them.

ESO is a risk, but once it hits the console release, and providing they stick to their principals, could either redefine the challenge of the mmorpg or fail spectacularly.
 
I don't know that I fit into any of those 3 categories.

If I align with anything , its the UO/Daoc era of MMOs, rather than the WoW era (remember that UO came out a massive 7 years before WoW surfaced and that both UO and Daoc are vastly different to WoW in game mechanics and style of play).

It could certainly be argued that Daoc had more strategy involved in it than any MMO since for example.

I'm definitely not number 2 or 3, but I don't think I really fit into number 1 either :)
 
The problem is, we now have three kinds of gamer which the success of this is hinged on and whom really define the current generation.

1) The Call of Duty gamer; defined by quick fire rounds, devoid of any real strategy being used by most players and achievement is not actually challenging simply gained through point + shoot + hundreds of hours rinse and repeat in a very small closed world. I know plenty of people who put in more COD game time than WoW ever took.

2) The modern World of Warcraft gamer; defined by high time investment = very high rewards but where the elitist challenge of early WoW went long ago and is forgotten by many. I haven't played wow properly in years but I remember when people wearing epics were the exception not the norm and how it changed so dramatically over time. People forget how long ago WoW started, which was back in a time people still used portable CD players, mobile phones were cutting edge if 'snake' could be played in colour and socialising was achieved by sitting in a pub talking to people face-to-face.

3) The Angry Bird gamer; defined by simple, fun and totally addictive mini games on phones more powerful than average gaming PCs from the start of the WoW era.

It seems to me that at the moment ESO is ideal for the more hard core mmorpg'er, aligned with the original first few years of WoW or EVE, UO etc which is not a large enough market to sustain it in the face of all other big game titles competing for gamers time at the moment.

Gamers (the bulk of) have moved on in their expectations of the in game experience and the reason WoW survived is because it moved with them.

I know loads of people who played Skyrim and loved it but had no concept of the wider game or its full potential and were simply content in completing the main quest in 20-30ish hours. Most didn't even realise the depth of the world, guilds and wider challenges nor did they look for them.

ESO is a risk, but once it hits the console release, and providing they stick to their principals, could either redefine the challenge of the mmorpg or fail spectacularly.

The type of gamers you speak of have always existed, it's just that, nowadays, there's more of them because gaming has truly gone mainstream since Wii and smartphones took off.

Certain games provide high quality entertainment in such a way that they can appeal to all types of gamers. WoW(early days), Skyrim, Minecraft, earlier versions of CoD and BF, GTA V, to name a few, are smashing hits that sold in the tens of millions not because of the circumstances or what the gamers expected but because they were simply that good.

I know lots of people love EOS, I understand why they do, it's a good game but it's not that good. It will never be a smashing hit and it will be very difficult to sustain without f2p options in the long term. That doesn't mean you can't keep playing and enjoying it . :)

The ideas that gamers these days are stupid, they don't know what's good for them, they expect this and that etc. , are flawed. No matter what gamers expect or how many types of gamers there are, if the product is good, it will be succesful.
 
Will all come out in the wash in a few months anyway.

But, I am not saying gamers are stupid, rather games are designed to give maximum enjoyment and reward proportional to the effort and cost.

It would be easy and fair to argue early WoW etc gave great rewards but this was disproportionate to effort and unobtainable by the majority who couldn't commit their entire life to a game.

If ESO is percieved by most to be challenging, unbalanced, limited in its rewards to everyone and requires big effort for, compared to alternatives a disproportionate reward system then it will fail by the time it hits the console to get repeat subs.

These things are acceptable in a single player rpg or any game where you can pick up and put down the game at will, and effort is not benchmarked against 1000s of players on your server in a way that affects your enjoyment.
 
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Warcraft syndrome right there. I want to play a multi player game but I actually don't want any negative experiences from other players, therefore please compartmentalise my entire game play.

Your statement is even worse because it's not even a given it's going to happen, yet you get put off a mechanic because another player might get there first.

Attitudes like this belong in a single player experience and have utterly ruined what the traditional MMO was all about.

Have you actually played WoW? Because resources and chests work exactly the same way (other than the annoying lockpicking) in WoW as they do in ESO (ie they despawn once someone gathers/opens them), they take a lot longer to respawn in WoW though.
 
I made my character too short and now I look like a 12 year old.

I just started last night and am loving it so far. The character name is 'sir dan' if anyone wants to add me.
 
I know lots of people love EOS, I understand why they do, it's a good game but it's not that good. It will never be a smashing hit and it will be very difficult to sustain without f2p options in the long term. That doesn't mean you can't keep playing and enjoying it . :)

For many people it's a very welcome change from MMOs of recent years, don't be fooled into thinking that your opinion is representative of the majority. What makes you so sure it will be difficult to sustain without f2p options, I presume you have insider knowledge of Zenimax's business model or can see into the future? Or are you just speculating because you personally don't like the game?

I guess you wouldn't consider DAoC to be a 'smashing hit' either?
 
For many people it's a very welcome change from MMOs of recent years, don't be fooled into thinking that your opinion is representative of the majority. What makes you so sure it will be difficult to sustain without f2p options, I presume you have insider knowledge of Zenimax's business model or can see into the future? Or are you just speculating because you personally don't like the game?

I guess you wouldn't consider DAoC to be a 'smashing hit' either?

The game is appreciated by a lot of people and rightfully so. I said it would be difficult to sustain without f2p options not because I can see into the future but because I consider the past. SWTOR had a bigger budget, a better marketing campaign and a much bigger fan base yet it went f2p not long after launch, despite good initial sales. EOS opened with lower review scores, lower user scores and it doesn't bring anything groundbreaking to the table, which means it will probably follow a similar path.
 
If it does eventually go f2p, then it goes f2p. If it doesnt, then it doesnt. There are always exceptions to every rule so who knows. The last MMO that I played which I felt was good enough to seriously warrant my ongoing monthly subscription was Daoc. Although I did have a subscription for WoW I never really felt it was good enough to warrant the sub, I was just going along with the sheep because everyone else was. ESO for me is the first MMO since Daoc over a decade ago that I feel actually warrants my monthly subscription, so I'm happy to pay it. (conversely I thought that SWTOR was awful and didnt give it even 1 months of my money :D )

Different strokes for different folks. If it ends up f2p or not, either way I get to play an MMO which I think is a stand out MMO amongst a mass of cack mmos, so its a win win for me whatever the outcome :D
 
The game is appreciated by a lot of people and rightfully so. I said it would be difficult to sustain without f2p options not because I can see into the future but because I consider the past. SWTOR had a bigger budget, a better marketing campaign and a much bigger fan base yet it went f2p not long after launch, despite good initial sales. EOS opened with lower review scores, lower user scores and it doesn't bring anything groundbreaking to the table, which means it will probably follow a similar path.

Not neccessarily, the lower budget of ESO could mean they don't have as desperate a need for income as SWTOR had and I think you underestimate the draw of real open world PvP. WoW subs were relatively low at first but they increased over time, unlike SWTOR. I know you don't think this game has the quality to achieve that but many would disagree. Time will tell and I could well be wrong but I don't think anything is set in stone right now.
 
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