******Official Star Citizen / Squadron 42 Thread******

[Brocky36]

Nobody is saying it's not an advantage, even in the video I posted it's clearly started it is - a starting advantage. That's if you're in a position to use it (crew wise etc).

Likewise this isn't just a pvp game, it's also pve and the players make up 1/10th of the persistent universe, you'll actually have to find someone who wants to attack you to - this isn't likely to be a heavy PVP game in most areas, whilst it'll happen there are consequences to doing it, just like in Eve and just like Eve it'll take a long time for players to get to grips with exactly how the reputation mechanic works as it's tweaked etc. (I played Eve when it first came out for a few years.) Apart from anything else there isn't a "win" in star citizen - there's no end goal, like Eve and there's nothing stopping you just nicking one of the ships someone bought..

There are a lot of fans of Chris Roberts early work - many of those people who played his early games, were the same people who played Richard Garriot (Ultima Online) and David Braben (Elite) and are now older, richer and want a Chris Roberts game. Most of them seem to have played Freelancer and found it wanting, they are sick of seeing the same old games year in, year out recycled and not pushing the boundaries of gaming. They want something better. That's why they're pledging, some people don't value cars much, don't value skiing holidays etc. We all spend our money in different ways.

I know one person who's put in over $50,000 into Star Citizen and frankly it's peanuts to him. The game has some incredibly wealthy private backers and the irony is that most of them, like my mate won't even be able to fly 90% of the stuff he's bought without paying an in-game crew or set of players to help him out. As someone said earlier on Reddit today, the way things are the wealthiest player credit wise after a few weeks will be that new guy who rocks up no the cheapest pledge and hires himself out to crew other peoples ships for them lol

From my perspective I've played the alpha for around 700 hours now, I value triple A titles as value for money if I can get £1/hour out of them, so 30 hours out of a 30 quid game. I'm actually well and truly into the plus side for Star citizen already.

Look I doubt you'd ever back and I respect why you wouldn't - you clearly think it's pay2win. Fair enough, there are literally over a million people already pledged who clearly don't agree. I dont', I know within 6 months the people "playing to win" with far more free time than myself will be miles ahead of me and I'll never level that playing ground without help from friends.

Not at all. Or not entirely, at least. I game for the challenge. The 'point' of gaming, for me, is gaining rewards for my efforts. Of course, for the enjoyment and the social aspect, also....but mainly for the challenge. I find cheating utterly pointless and dislike people who take advantage of exploits and even 'cheesing' just to get a leg up. I'm not riding in from my ivory tower on my white horse here, I'm just trying to give a profile on myself as a gamer.

Of course, pledging to get early access to assets is a million miles from cheating or exploiting. I just don't grasp why someone would want to give up what is, as I said earlier, the essence of gaming.

I too am sick of the state of games these days. How they're dumbed-down rehashes of the same old rubbish designed to make as much money as is possible. I would gladly pay £100 for a game that I knew was going to be 'The One' and blow me away for a year or more. But thousands just to get a leg-up in a game that isn't even released?!

I dunno. Maybe it's just the way of society these days and I'm a traditional old fart in a world full of need for instant gratification.

That's a topic for a completely different thread, though.

 

[Raumarik]

I don't know, the challenge from what I've played in Alpha will be coordinating things with friends, having the right people along rather than the ships. The game isn't just about ships after all, there's combat inside them, on planets, on stations and just floating about in space with guns, there's research, mining, engineering, medical, information running, racing.. and more. The ships people pledge for now might give them a kick start or reduce the initial play time before they can go into a profession like mining, but it wont' keep them ahead for long and it won't lessen the challenge of having to pilot a ship or make the most of it. Log into any alpha server and you'll see pilots struggling to land a ship they've owned for 6 months, not because the controls are hard (they really aren't) but because they've not spent enough time in that ship to get use to it. Amusingly with the next update there's a lot of changes coming that'll change it again.

As an Eve player I'd put it to you like this, imaging starting to play Eve now, you'd be behind wouldn't you? I'd argue you'd be MILES behind established players and why the hell not? They invested all that time after all? Star citizen needs funds to be finished, without these ships it wouldn't exist so isn't a pat on the back with ships that are going to be outdated from the day the game launches OK? Star Citizen doesn't have character leveling etc so the only thing to gear up on is gear, ships, knowledge and connections. Whilst you can currently grab ships, you can't really do the rest until the game is out and it comes out at the same time for all of us (or never if it falls on it's ****).

Essence of gaming for me is interactions, not challenge. If I'm having fun with friends I'm happy as larry, challenge is just an added bonus and seeing as I have a very good fighter and still can't take on a skilled pilot in a much cheaper ship - I see challenge frequently. Like I said, owning it doesn't make it work to it's full potential if the pilot is pants!

If in doubt hang off and look at it after release, nothing lost.

 

[humbug]

 

[FloppyPoppy]

I don't know, the challenge from what I've played in Alpha will be coordinating things with friends, having the right people along rather than the ships. The game isn't just about ships after all, there's combat inside them, on planets, on stations and just floating about in space with guns, there's research, mining, engineering, medical, information running, racing.. and more. The ships people pledge for now might give them a kick start or reduce the initial play time before they can go into a profession like mining, but it wont' keep them ahead for long and it won't lessen the challenge of having to pilot a ship or make the most of it. Log into any alpha server and you'll see pilots struggling to land a ship they've owned for 6 months, not because the controls are hard (they really aren't) but because they've not spent enough time in that ship to get use to it. Amusingly with the next update there's a lot of changes coming that'll change it again.

As an Eve player I'd put it to you like this, imaging starting to play Eve now, you'd be behind wouldn't you? I'd argue you'd be MILES behind established players and why the hell not? They invested all that time after all? Star citizen needs funds to be finished, without these ships it wouldn't exist so isn't a pat on the back with ships that are going to be outdated from the day the game launches OK? Star Citizen doesn't have character leveling etc so the only thing to gear up on is gear, ships, knowledge and connections. Whilst you can currently grab ships, you can't really do the rest until the game is out and it comes out at the same time for all of us (or never if it falls on it's ****).

Essence of gaming for me is interactions, not challenge. If I'm having fun with friends I'm happy as larry, challenge is just an added bonus and seeing as I have a very good fighter and still can't take on a skilled pilot in a much cheaper ship - I see challenge frequently. Like I said, owning it doesn't make it work to it's full potential if the pilot is pants!

If in doubt hang off and look at it after release, nothing lost.

Totally agree. I unfortunately see a lot of people looking at it from a perspective such as Brockys not that his opinion of anything is wrong, it's his opinion of course. But many people think that buying for instance a capital ship is going to be instant gratification. Having the keys to a capital basically means 2 things. You need to be able to have some seriously good organisation skills and you need a well sized group of good people to work with you and actually a third thing, the ability to have a fleet come fight/defend you at a moments notice. And unfortunately this is something that not a lot of people can pull off. And end up owning a expensive paperweight. Not to mention the challenges of keeping something like that operational. If you think people will just be able to get into big expensive ships and go crazy in them get them blown up and just spawn another that absolutely isn't the case.

People need to play to their own desires and that's something SC does a great job of by offering such versatility.

And hey some of us simply like collecting ships i understand the concept of that will be strange to an awful lot of people who will be thinking you like to collect vehicles in a video game? Similar to how i could ask them about the things they enjoy for instance coin collectors and stamp collectors each to their own and if it's something you enjoy then why not invest into it? I picked up an X-85 just because it peaked my interest. How much of a "leg up" does this give me? Absolutely nada.

But of course opinions are opinions and all we can try to do is change peoples opinions.

 

[ttaskmaster]

Also, how is this supposed to make less well-off - and I'm sure some would argue less insane - people want to play the game when it eventually comes out.

It doesn't.
Due to some system glitch, I spent hours last night trying to land at the one place than can fix my reputation problem and getting the living spit kicked out of me the instant I dropped into system, by players who could afford to buy better ships than me.
On the Comms window I kept getting messages like, "Hey, Aurora pilot - I admire your balls, but you should'a bought a better ship. Doesn't cost much to upgrade - Only $50 or so..."

Finally managed it at a point where they were distracted by someone else, got inside and hit the fix-button, only to get blown up the instant I undocked again...!!!

I sure as hell ain't warming to the idea of buying and spending time on a game where people have already got a bunch of the best stuff by dropping a stack of cash on it.

In theory, a lot depends on how crap you are as a pilot.
You can have all the ships in the universe, but you can bet there'll be a kick-ass Aurora pilot who can take you and your ten-buddy battleship down all by himself...

Unfortunately that Aurora pilot is not me, so I'll be there with you, getting dock-raped by all and sundry.
Rumour has it there is/will be a PVP slider, which increases/reduces the likelihood of you encountering other players, though.

but surely this is P2W hitting it's pinnacle, coupled with the most ingenious money-making scheme in gaming history.

There does/did seem to be a lot of "Buy this in-game asset thing that we haven't even made yet, for only $240" emails all the time, yeah... I'm not a fan of that, especially when it looks to be the same asset you already have, but with a slightly different colour or something.


Need to remember how to turn off that flippin' motion blur as well...!!

 

[Raumarik]

Ttaskmaster you could have just logged into another server where people weren't camping kareah. Doesn't matter what ship you have, if you're up against multiple opponents you'll struggle regardless.

Lastly this is a test area, not how the game will function at release so being attacked on a dock is far less likely as the consequences for doing so right now are essentially non existent.

 

[humbug]

"Hey, Aurora pilot - I admire your balls, but you should'a bought a better ship. Doesn't cost much to upgrade - Only $50 or so..."

Now, you see, i have been nothing but considerate toward you, giving you the benefit of the doubt when constantly complaining about the game in a way that looks frankly like hating on it.
I don't believe that actually happend for a second, it looks to me like something you just made up taking inspiration from my Aurora meme
you get the odd douche in any game including this one but like most games overwhelmingly people are a good sort, i have put 100's of hours into this game and in my experience mostly when people see a lost looking Aurora they tend to offer help.

If as an outlaw you don't want to get attacked outside the station in your ship park it up a couple 100m away from the station and EVA to it.

 

[Raumarik]

Then die inside because douche had his friends waiting lol happened so often to me...

 

[Allnamestaken]

Bunch of noobs...

See if that was me I would kill them all with my single neutron canon Aurora.

Then eject and leave it as bait on the pads waiting for unsuspecting victims to kill as they board it.

 

[atpbx]

Thanks for the reply.

All that info doesn't change one thing, though...

Jim, who is willing to pay thousands of pounds, will have in-game assets that Joe, who isn't willing or able to invest cash, won't have when the game launches. Joe will have to earn it by playing the game.

Anyone who states that is 1) not an advantage, or 2) not defeating the object of gaming (especially PvP gaming) in general, really needs to go and have a re-think on their definitions of words like competition and challenge. These things are, afterall, the ultimate essence of gaming, are they not...? This model (and many others....I'm not just hating on this game here) clearly gives an advantage to those willing to open their wallets.

The other thing that really doesn't make sense to me is why someone would pay thousands of pounds on a game. I mean, I have lost count of the thousands of hours of enjoyment that I have had from games such as Civ and the like over the years. Do I think that they're worth paying £2,000 for? Christ no! That would be insane! Hell, I played EVE for 11 years and didn't spend half that amount. I'm not slating the folks that have paid that kind of money. People are, of course, free to spend their cash on what they like. I just can't see the logic behind it. Especially since the game is still in early development.

Get a starter package I'll send you a ship over as an early Christmas present.

Where have you been anyway? I've not seen you on PSN for a while.

 

[ttaskmaster]

Ttaskmaster you could have just logged into another server where people weren't camping kareah.

How do you change servers?
Is it something to do with that numberpad that appears in the launch menu?

Doesn't matter what ship you have, if you're up against multiple opponents you'll struggle regardless.

I couldn't even see which one was shooting me, TBH!!

Lastly this is a test area, not how the game will function at release so being attacked on a dock is far less likely as the consequences for doing so right now are essentially non existent.

Yeah, I know. Just annoying when you can't even take off to 'test' anything, ha ha!!

Now, you see, i have been nothing but considerate toward you, giving you the benefit of the doubt when constantly complaining about the game in a way that looks frankly like hating on it.

OH NOES, I have a difference of opinion to you... what are you gonna DOOOOOOOOOO????!!!!!
You seem to think 'considerate' means jumping on me at every possible opportunity for every remark - If I did the same back to you, I'd be banned in seconds.

I don't believe that actually happend for a second, it looks to me like something you just made up taking inspiration from my Aurora meme

Seriously?
OK, quit with the trolling, dude - Aside from recording every moment of my gameplay and posting it for you (which I assume you won't even watch before bleating away here), there is clearly nothing you want to hear that doesn't align with your perception of this as the PERFECT game and your malcontent mission to burn any heretic that dares to so much as think a word against His Holiness Chris Roberts.... so 'whatever'!

And I can't even see your Aurora meme here at work, so again 'whatever'....

you get the odd douche in any game including this one but like most games overwhelmingly people are a good sort, i have put 100's of hours into this game and in my experience mostly when people see a lost looking Aurora they tend to offer help.

I wasn't lost. I was heading directly for the station.
This is apparently a well-established PVP area, so I was having to make my way through to find some console and press a button. The PVPing lot decided otherwise. That's all there is to it.

If as an outlaw you don't want to get attacked outside the station in your ship park it up a couple 100m away from the station and EVA to it.

1/. I don't recall doing anything to make me an outlaw and I'm not seeing any of these red marks to indicate I am one anyway. I just spawned up in Grim Hex one day, randomly.
2/. I couldn't get within a few thousand metres of the station - You expect me to EVA all that way, unprotected while surrounded by people who are here to kill things?

What-EVAH.....!

 

[Raumarik]

Actually out of ship is fairly safe, hold shift and you'll move in EVA faster too

If you want to change server just log out and back in.. While new set of people to play with most of the time or pop on when were around we usually make a group which tends to force a new server instance anyway!

 

[ttaskmaster]

Actually out of ship is fairly safe, hold shift and you'll move in EVA faster too

Yep, been shifting. Figured that one out, at least, heh heh!!

But I can still be shot to pieces by a Berring-Tech A5 Laser, or whatever, no?
TBH, if they're gunning up all and sundry, I don't think I'd trust a space suit and slow-moving EVA pack over a fast ship with shields!!

If you want to change server just log out and back in..

Oh right, cool. Thought I'd missed a menu option or something!

 

[Raumarik]

You're much harder to spot when out of a ship, honestly I've messed around with people when EVA near there, even baiting them until they crash trying to shoot me. It can be a lot of fun if you don't mind occasionally being run over by them!

If you get close enough their weapon convergence point is actually behind you so they really struggle to hit such a small object and most forget they can just smack into you

 

[ttaskmaster]

I assumed, as endless PvPers, they'd be well practiced enough to splatt me.
I might play around with that, though, see if I can move fast enough to evade them.

Sorted the reputation thing out, though... then clipped through my ship and destroyed it or something, ending up respawning back at GrimHex AGAIN....!!!!!

 

[IvanDobskey]

The whole pay to win scenario and people paying silly money for internet spaceships is the reason i won't be buying this game.

 

[Allnamestaken]

The whole pay to win scenario and people paying silly money for internet spaceships is the reason i won't be buying this game.

We have spent the last few pages explaining this but if you don't want to at least read so you can understand why it is not "pay to win then fair enough.

Cya

 

[ttaskmaster]

We have spent the last few pages explaining this but if you don't want to at least read so you can understand why it is not "pay to win then fair enough.
Cya

Technically it *is* pay to win, at least in the beginning as it gives you quite a head start. Going forward, I'd say it is more like an 'optional' method...

Certainly having spent some of that REC I've racked up and trying out an Anvil Gladiator in Arena Commander last night - If I had THAT to start with, I'd be much more of a winner than anything my Aurora could bring me.... Seriously, I was dropping Vanduul with almost NO effort in that thing!!

 

[GiraffePencils]

The only thing that's 'pay to win' is that you can get to a role/job you want quicker.
apart from that, you just grind there. And grinding's part of the fun
or atleast that's what eve taught me.....

 

[Raumarik]

Technically it *is* pay to win, at least in the beginning as it gives you quite a head start. Going forward, I'd say it is more like an 'optional' method...

Certainly having spent some of that REC I've racked up and trying out an Anvil Gladiator in Arena Commander last night - If I had THAT to start with, I'd be much more of a winner than anything my Aurora could bring me.... Seriously, I was dropping Vanduul with almost NO effort in that thing!!

Vanduul in arena commander are weaker than they will be in game and don't forget ship balancing hasn't really begun yet! Seriously like they don't consider anything of it complete, not a single ship lol