******Official Star Citizen / Squadron 42 Thread******
- Thread starter Raumarik
- Start date
Soldato
- Joined
- 23 May 2006
- Posts
- 7,941
Wow that is a blast from the past, and boy was i looking forward to that game......
I think by the time it came out I had already jumped to a PC (I certainly never ended up seeing it), and besides i doubt my base A1200 would have run it.
am i right in saying this was the sequel to F29 retaliator? (that was a game i loved on my amiga)
That it was, TFX helped pioneer flight simulator 'active systems' such as those being talked about here, like Dynamic Weather conditions etc.
It managed to deliver about 85% of what it promised and even after its long gestation period it still turned out to be a top game as long as you had a top spec A4000.
A4000 $3700 list price back in 1993, $6,600 adjusted for inflation, excluding VAT.
That is what you will need to run SC when all the systems are active - a £5-6k rig but history is kind to simulators with long gestation periods, its just not kind to FPS games with the same
It managed to deliver about 85% of what it promised and even after its long gestation period it still turned out to be a top game as long as you had a top spec A4000.
A4000 $3700 list price back in 1993, $6,600 adjusted for inflation, excluding VAT.
That is what you will need to run SC when all the systems are active - a £5-6k rig but history is kind to simulators with long gestation periods, its just not kind to FPS games with the same
Soldato
- Joined
- 27 Jan 2012
- Posts
- 8,083
- Location
- The king of the north!
Do you know how the search function works?
If you did you would understand my blatant satire.
My thoughts too.At one point I was a few hundred dollars in (think I had a Connie) but got cold feet a few years back and got a refund and then got the starter ship with Sqn 42, and I've pretty much forgotten about it now. I would guess some of the original big bucks backers have actually died of old age waiting...
a witty riposte. i'm assuming anyways, I can't make sense of it. perhaps you could explain exactly what i'd be using the search function for?
Its because CIG allow us access to the game as its being developed, with that we see it as its evolving warts and all...
Had they not given access to it people would have nothing to complain about, like Cyberpunk would just be in development for a decade with nothing for people to complain about and then just appear.
I will say one thing, that early access model of developing games is now dead, no one will attempt it again because clearly people just cannot be trusted to be at least pragmatic, we are our own worst enemy.
Soldato
- Joined
- 26 Sep 2013
- Posts
- 10,756
- Location
- West End, Southampton
God yeah that brings back memories...I seem to go on holiday every summer with mum and dad with a few Amiga magazines and remember each year reading about it and getting excited about a screenshot. I dont think It even got released did it? Or maybe by the time it did I'd lost all interest or moved on in life.
Soldato
- Joined
- 14 Aug 2009
- Posts
- 3,262
I guess you could argue that those games are developed using the resources that the developers have and not the ones of the gamers.
Then there's also the fact (apparently little known), that the scope of the game increased by the will of the community/backers which was/were asked way back then if the game should remain as it was envisioned originally or if we would like for it to grow into something more. The 2nd choice was voted. Other than that is just arguing for the sake of arguing (after all that's the internet). Of course it didn't helped that the game made little progress down the years, especially in terms of gameplay mechanics.Logic says they should have a lot of stuff we haven't seen yet.
Right now I'd say the biggest obstacle is the AI (you can't have even the SP without it, never mind the MP part) and that's my biggest fear of how they could fail. IF they'll nail this down, then it should be a smooth sailing. Having SQ42 as a high quality product is essential. Making new systems, judging by the tech they've shown so far, looks really easy and fast to do. The obstacles are rather technical and not quite about the art/assets.
TFX never saw release on the A500, computer shops at the time took deposits for the game on the back of big hype from the likes of Zzap and ended up returning the deposits when it was cancelled.
Again, parallels with SC just in 1992 and on a smaller scale.
The A500/A1200 screen shots in the magazine previews were semi-static mock-up images/pre-programmed wire-frames which were then shown to the press.
When it appeared on the A1200 it was a bug ridden mess that did 15fps, the game mechanics just did not fit on such a small computer and it was a water-shed moment because for the first time, Amiga owners realised that the PC ran the game fine and setup the mass migration to the PC which was subsequently lit by Doom and the CIX network in 1993.
Well it does work both ways, players are a fickle bunch but also you can't expect people to hang around years beta testing a game that may or may not be completed.
I just find with most early access games that the devs are working 110% when the game releases as EA but then the bug fixes/content patches slow down dramatically after the initial 6 months.
Not to mention games like H1Z1 that don't even exist anymore as a survival game. To many scum devs haven't helped players confidence in the model.
I had TFX for the PC, didn't know it was supposed to be ported to the Amiga. I recall them doing some clever stuff w/ Wing Commander, converting the ships to sprites, and it worked pretty good for a machine that was running about 11hz 
F29 Retaliator was cracking on the Amiga though.
F29 Retaliator was cracking on the Amiga though.
Soldato
- Joined
- 23 May 2006
- Posts
- 7,941
come on... that is hardly being fair.... The entire core of the game has been completely changed.... now this is totally fine for most games which are done internally as we can choose to buy or not buy when it is finished... but when your entire funding model is based on coming out cap in hand and asking players to trust them with your money in advance to allow them to make the game, them imo that changes things.
IF I go to a garage and pre-order an SUV for delivery in 2014.... and i still dont have it in 2020, and not only that but they have refactored it into a 2 seater sports car... then at the very least i should be allowed a full refund. Whilst it may be a really nice 2 seater sports car, that is no good if i wanted an SUV!.
See your point although kickstarter funding is a bit different to a pre-order. Also I think you'd get an SUV. It'll still do the off-road stuff. Except now it can also sprout wings and fly or dive down to the depths of the bottom of the ocean. Think that's worth the wait and goal posts being shifted a bit.
If you just wanted the SUV lots of other car makers do them and are ready now...
Actually better not mention the submarine bit to CIG, they'll probably start seeing if that's possible...
They offered refunds though...they showed what they were doing and the scope. You are still getting what you backed unless it's the full scope of the game in private servers with all the economic side etc. That was never going to happen and they stated as such that it wasn't but people missed it or wanted to believe otherwise.
Not sure what core you expected to what they are giving. If it's SQ42 then loosing the co-op side was massive tbh and I get that and feel that's s shame but it changed early 2014 so you could get a refund then if wanted.
With that they also said we can increase the scope and make it bigger etc, they asked for votes and comments. People have it. Personally I watched from 2012 to 2014 and then brought in once I'd seen the scope expand.
Soldato
- Joined
- 23 May 2006
- Posts
- 7,941
S42 coop was a big thing for me.
The PvP slider was a big thing for me.
Private servers is an absolutely massive thing for me and despite what you say ...... why are CIG still selling a private server and modding pack then? https://robertsspaceindustries.com/pledge/Add-Ons/Engineering-Manual-For-Modders-Digital
the one i should take on the chin at least in part is VR.... because whilst verbally VR support was going to be a thing, when i actually look at the stretch goal, it doesnt say the whole game will be in VR..... so mea culpa on that I guess - but it is an absolute disaster that not being in there for me.
as for the refunds.
This may be true for those who followed the game religiously, but I had no idea on what was going on. I just ckicked my money in and left it alone for a few years - I only had the time to go full fanboy and follow every single dev comment on 1 game and for me that was ED.... so it was only relitively recently I learned how much the core features important to me had changed and that i investigated a refund.
Look, I am actually not that salty about it, the money is long gone........ however... you asked the question why, and I answered
S42 coop was a big thing for me.
The PvP slider was a big thing for me.
Private servers is an absolutely massive thing for me and despite what you say ...... why are CIG still selling a private server and modding pack then? https://robertsspaceindustries.com/pledge/Add-Ons/Engineering-Manual-For-Modders-Digital
the one i should take on the chin at least in part is VR.... because whilst verbally VR support was going to be a thing, when i actually look at the stretch goal, it doesnt say the whole game will be in VR..... so mea culpa on that I guess - but it is an absolute disaster that not being in there for me.
as for the refunds.
This may be true for those who followed the game religiously, but I had no idea on what was going on. I just ckicked my money in and left it alone for a few years - I only had the time to go full fanboy and follow every single dev comment on 1 game and for me that was ED.... so it was only relitively recently I learned how much the core features important to me had changed and that i investigated a refund.
Look, I am actually not that salty about it, the money is long gone........ however... you asked the question why, and I answered
Aye that's fair enough with your views. As said I agree with the co-op going. That was big for me too but I decided with having only £45 in game I might as well keep as I'd still play it.
The PVP slider to me was dumb so was actually glad that went, it wouldn't work and would hurt the game just like it has with ED.
The private server I just don't agree. You are getting private server later still, that hasn't changed but people expecting a full simulated economy and 100 star systems when we knew it would need server meshing always meant that you wasn't going to get it 100% parity.
That they are going to offer private servers with modding so you can have your own planetary system and mod it that's cool and not more than most expected from feedback I've read on Reddit and Spectrum anyways. They gave clear info on it about 4 years ago but it is of course lost and deep in tens of thousands of other threads.
I do agree they shouldn't of sold support elements etc for that but then honestly choosing to buy that as early in development as it was I would say was probably not the wises.
In terms of that though I would say none of those features (other than coop) was core in my view. But of course each own on what is core for them.
Soldato
- Joined
- 23 May 2006
- Posts
- 7,941
To each their own, 1 mans hurting is another mans saving I guess..... Whilst I was happy to play with all matchmaking off at the start, after the game had been out a while I began to experience stuff which i just did not want to see..... and that is in a game with billions of systems. I would have dropped the game a long long time ago had i not been able to control who i met in game. Sadly (imo) a small percentage of players are able to spoil the game for a huge number of people.... But then that is the different perspective which i doubt i will ever agree on. I am a pure PvE player, and would happily play 99% of games without ever having the ability to fight another player. With 100 systems (in the most optimistc day) I really think SC is going to be a sh..show from that sense... but time will tell.
I do know a player who are having great fun camping on players ships spawn point in their bed and head shotting them continually as they spawn.... to quote the player, the challenge is what happens 1st, the ship owner quits the game, or he runs out of ammo 1st.