***Official Wrath of the Lich King Thread***(Contains spoilers)***

ever thought there is more people who enjoy its decreased difficulty level than those who qq about it?

i for one, simply couldnt play the game pre wotlk due to rl commitments were i didnt have the time to plow into.

Now i can see the content quite easily and thus make my money well spent rather than watching from the sidelines.
 
G-Man said:
IIRC it required 8 tanks in a day when only Warriors could actually tank, then because that wasn't insane enough they all pretty much needed the T3 set bonus that made taunt less likely to resist. Back then there was no way to increase taunts hit chance without wearing spell hit gear and a single missed taunt on 4hm was pretty much a wipe.
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4HM basically killed raiding in my original guild, it also did the same for the other two top guilds on the server, from what I remember no guild had enough (decent) tanks to do it.
 
They need to implement three difficulty modes. Normal for those who just want to see the content. A light heroic for guilds who want a good challenge and full heroic for the hardcore guilds.

At the moment normal icc is very easy and most of the bosses in heroic are also easy, then you get to the last few bosses which pose a challenge, then LK heroic...... Paragon put it best: "If Putricide makes rest of the wing bosses look silly and pitiful, then Lich King is someone who squashes Putricide under his heel like a bug."
 
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Difficulty doesn't bug me, if anything, I barely play now, so I enjoy the easy difficulty (though I don't raid ATM). I did the whole struggling through stuff in TBC, now I just don't have time. :p
 
Naff8000 said:
At the moment normal icc is very easy and most of the bosses in heroic are also easy, then you get to the last few bosses which pose a challenge, then LK heroic...... Paragon put it best: "If Putricide makes rest of the wing bosses look silly and pitiful, then Lich King is someone who squashes Putricide under his heel like a bug."
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It's not that the bosses are easy on heroic, it's the fact that the fights are for the most part the same ones we've been farming for almost 5 months now in some cases with the heroic modes requiring only a minor tweak in strategy. Couple that with the 15% health/damage buff and most heroic modes are now as easy as the normal modes were at release.

The only heroic fights that most guilds on my server (which is in the top 10 of the world rankings on wowprogress so we have a lot of decent guilds) struggle with are Putricide, Sindragosa and LK. All 3 of those fights are still just as difficult with the ICC buff as they require lots of co-ordination rather than just more damage output. If there had been more variation between normal and heroic then I think people would have found ICC heroics a lot more challenging.

My guild is pretty much done raiding in ICC now. We've killed everything on 25man heroic except the Lich King but it's such a brick wall that I doubt we'll bother with it. Once we have our 25 man drakes we'll probably never set foot inside that place again as everyone is so sick of it now.

In Cataclysm they need to either make the raids more technically challenging, scrap gating so guilds don't see fights on normal first or just abandon hard modes altogether and go back to how it was in TBC.
 
FishFluff said:
It's not that the bosses are easy on heroic, it's the fact that the fights are for the most part the same ones we've been farming for almost 5 months now in some cases with the heroic modes requiring only a minor tweak in strategy. Couple that with the 15% health/damage buff and most heroic modes are now as easy as the normal modes were at release.

The only heroic fights that most guilds on my server (which is in the top 10 of the world rankings on wowprogress so we have a lot of decent guilds) struggle with are Putricide, Sindragosa and LK. All 3 of those fights are still just as difficult with the ICC buff as they require lots of co-ordination rather than just more damage output. If there had been more variation between normal and heroic then I think people would have found ICC heroics a lot more challenging.

My guild is pretty much done raiding in ICC now. We've killed everything on 25man heroic except the Lich King but it's such a brick wall that I doubt we'll bother with it. Once we have our 25 man drakes we'll probably never set foot inside that place again as everyone is so sick of it now.

In Cataclysm they need to either make the raids more technically challenging, scrap gating so guilds don't see fights on normal first or just abandon hard modes altogether and go back to how it was in TBC.
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The gating of icc killed it. But Blizz knew that an ungated icc would have been cleared before the new year and the HMs probably by early Feb. This would have meant a gradual but significant decrease in subs every month until cata. Simply put, the gating saved millions for Blizz and thats all they really worry about
 
Sunwell was gated but the difficulty of bosses meant it was not cleared out in no time.

The downside was less access for casual raiders until the nerfs came through.

I see the pros and cons of both sides but I think the balance needs adjusting. I don't see the problem of SOME encounters being limited to hardcore/dedicated guilds.
 
I've always thought that they should do this, It was pretty much like this in early TBC. Most guilds could farm the first 2 bosses or 3 bosses of TK and SC, but not hit the end guys, MH to a similar extent.

As much as attunements ****** me off back in the day, it certainly gave those dedicated guilds that little bit of credit where it was due. If you could raid BT, it was because you had earned it.. not just that you could find the portal entrance.

An ideal situation I guess would be to release smaller staged 4 or 5 boss raids regularly rather than chucking 3 x 8-10 boss raids at you straight off the bat with the expac.
Keep one as hard work, maybe an attunement from the first 2, a challenge for those guys that want it.
3 months down the line bring out more content aimed at the hardcore, nerf the existing instances for the non-hardcore guys.

However, I dont think anything that they do will suit everybody, the range of people that play is just so diverse
 
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I hope they never go back to the rock hard bosses of old. I never saw the point of making content only a fraction of the pop will ever see. Then they promote it as the next big thing to get people to resub. Er no most people won't see it, so why would it make them resub?

Mind you I ways totally disappointed with the 4HM in wrath, so much heard about them and they were a total non-event.
 
Sin_Chase said:
Sunwell was gated but the difficulty of bosses meant it was not cleared out in no time.
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Sunwell was mega hard, but it wouldn't have been *as* hard if we'd had to farm the easy mode versions of the bosses for 2 months first.

In Vanilla content was too exclusive, in Wrath it's far too accessible. Personally I think TBC got the balance almost spot on. The only thing stupid about TBC was that everyone needed to be attuned for each raid. Once they scrapped that and made it so that only one person needed to be attuned (or have I mis-remembered that?) it was perfect. I was in a fairly casual guild (3 nights a week) in TBC and we still managed to eventually kill Illidan and make small steps into Sunwell before the 3.0 mega funtime patch. That's how it should be! We had to seriously work for it!

The LK fight is lame as hell compared to some encounters. Kael'thas in TK
felt a million times more epic because it was designed to be a truly challenging encounter and the designers didn't have to worry about scaling it down to 10 people with gear that isn't up to par.

I don't mean to come across as a whiny jerk, I don't care that other people get to see the same content as "hardcore raiders" (whatever they are), I just want fights to feel as awesome as they did in TBC and in Wrath they just haven't. Cataclysm is gonna be more of the same from whats been shown so far sadly :(
 
Just resubbed to see how things have changed since I quit and I'm thinking of leveling a mage to do abit of raiding on but arent sure of a server choice. Any ideas which servers might be open to experienced players but leveling a new char, so crap gear etc? Don't want to waste cash transfering ideally!
 
Roll on a younger low-pop realm if you want a better chance at getting into a "better" guild without experience.

You can have full Tier 9 and most non tier slots epicced in 2 weeks.
 
Sin_Chase said:
Roll on a younger low-pop realm if you want a better chance at getting into a "better" guild without experience.

You can have full Tier 9 and most non tier slots epicced in 2 weeks.
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I've got really good pve raiding experience stretching from vanilla right into icc raids, just the silly achievements and gearscore crap that would seriously harm my chances of a decent guild. I prefer casual raiding guilds with a good community to raiding hardcore with loads of people I dont really know.

edit, your low pop realm idea might be good though!
 
I've had offers from "decent" guilds on my hunter which I rolled on Dragonmaw. It;s a very low pop realm and Professions can be hard to find.

Any server is going to have Achievement and GS nubs though.

I did ToTC10 for the first time ever after scan reading tactics for 5 minutes and generally was Top 3 or so in the DPS frequently. Bad times :(
 
Sin_Chase said:
I've had offers from "decent" guilds on my hunter which I rolled on Dragonmaw. It;s a very low pop realm and Professions can be hard to find.

Any server is going to have Achievement and GS nubs though.

I did ToTC10 for the first time ever after scan reading tactics for 5 minutes and generally was Top 3 or so in the DPS frequently. Bad times :(
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aye I thought this would have been the case. I was originally planning on finishing off my horde mage (called bewb haha) which is 75 atm so not much more effort needed but its on my frozen account compared to the live one, meaning I either need to pay £8.99 to play it or £15 to transfer it to the live account urgh. I've got 2 really well geared horde chars with very good achievements still on karazhan pvp but I dont really want to be on that server just to give my mage a few thousand gold and an easier fresh start as im not the worlds biggest fan of pvp.

vek nilash is pretty "new" since it went pve so I might give that a try and hope for the best
 
I would honestly advise anyone thinking of starting/re-subbing or re-rolling WoW right now to hang fire until Cataclysm.

As someone who has played since vanilla (initially casually, becoming more hardcore in TBC with fairly high-world ranking T5/6 progression and finishing with unique realm first achievements for a good portion of Wrath) I find it very hard to recommend WoW as a game worth trying in it's current state. Raid content has becoming very bland (and that's ignoring the difficulty arguement) and the risk/reward of gearing characters and alts has become very skewed - Heirlooms and such were designed to make leveling new alts quicker and more attractive, for example, but that is totally overshadowed by the loss of "mandatory" achievements, unique gear/mounts, and particularly realm first titles.

The changes Blizzard have made to the game have done a lot to make more of it accessable to more people (and, as someone who played casually for the last 2 months of their sub) that's certainly a good thing, but I don't think anyone could argue against the fact that this has caused the overall content in the game to become diluted and trivalised.

Cataclysm has the potential to fix a lot of this, and not only introduce new content but also revitalise old content, revamp classes, skill trees and all sorts of technical mechanics for the better. The possibility (thin as it may be) of new realms and new communities is also a major consideration, as all current realms are now fairly well established in themselves and their battlegroups. To my mind, you can't beat a fresh server to forge your MMO identity, but that might just be me!

If you've never played WoW before, by all means go ahead and delve into what is undoubtedly still the most vast, polished and engrossing game available today. But if you're planning to revisit it, and especially if you want to reroll from scratch, then hold off until Cataclysm gives you all the more reason to see Azeroth in a whole new light, because right now there really is a choronic lack of purpose to be had at endgame.
 
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