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Overclocking guide for newbies here...

Discussion in 'OC Archive' started by NF7-S, Oct 29, 2003.

  1. Fubsy

    Sgarrista

    Joined: Dec 12, 2003

    Posts: 8,767

    Location: Thatcham

    rights guys, i have managed to get this, is this good?

    FSB=195
    Multiplier=11.5
    VCORE=1.75
    VDIMM=2.7
    RAM Timings= 11-4-4-2.5

    Temps, Idle=48 Load=58oC

    One more thing, i havent messed much with the RAM so i left them slack but can anyone give some idea on what i should be changing there?
     
  2. mad_allan

    Mobster

    Joined: Dec 17, 2003

    Posts: 3,201

    Location: Peterborough

    Still think this should be a sticky.

    Up ya go
     
  3. Fubsy

    Sgarrista

    Joined: Dec 12, 2003

    Posts: 8,767

    Location: Thatcham

    Yea i think it should as well, but it needs a lot of tidying up first.
     
  4. Chong Warrior

    Capodecina

    Joined: Oct 18, 2002

    Posts: 12,044

    Location: Manchester

    You don't give your system specs, so it's impossible to tell if that's a good overclock. If you have an XP1700+ then yeah it's good. If you have an XP2700+ then no, not good.

    Don't worry about RAM timings, they give very little performance increase when compared to any other form of overclocking. The main one really is the last number, the CAS.
    But even then, the difference between 11-4-4-2.5 and 5-2-2-2 is still very small and you personally wouldn't be able to tell the difference.

    I only mentioned timings because 'slackening' them can allow you to get your fsb quite a bit higher if your RAM is struggling.

    I take it you have PC2700 RAM?
     
    Last edited: Feb 2, 2004
  5. I have xp2500 @ 2056.8 Mhz with A7V8X-X mobo
    akasa AK 825 cooler
    X2 256 pny ddr 400 mem
    i have overclocked it as far as
    fsb 378 187 mhz x11 mutiplier 1.65 volt
    i get get cpu temp 36C when just surfin n stuff & 43C when converting films & playin games
    mobo temp is averages 34C
    is there much else i can change to get more out
     
  6. Fubsy

    Sgarrista

    Joined: Dec 12, 2003

    Posts: 8,767

    Location: Thatcham

    sorry about my specs not being there, i thought my sig would have it on but i forgot i took it off!

    well i got a 2400+ and 2700 ram.
     
  7. ricjax99

    Banned

    Joined: Feb 6, 2004

    Posts: 52

    Location: Sheffield UK

    My help

    The guide is good for basics but doesn't cover any of the NF7's issues.

    1. The missing 10/10.5x multipliers over 225 MHz FSB with CPU-Interface enabled.
    2. The 220 FSB wall with a tbred
    3. CPU Interface issues
    4. Differenent "better" bios's
    5. Vcore / vdimm and +3.3v rail requirements
    6. How long to run prime and what to look for
    7. How to recover from potential non POST'ing
    8. Memory/timing and restrictions.

    Seen as im overly familair with the NF7 i'll try to clarify some of these things rather than just critising.

    Again please note:

    I AM NOT RESPONSIBLE FOR ANY PROBLEMS YOU ENCOUNTER FROM USING MY HELP.

    All works fine for me so you shouldn't have any major problems.

    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    POINT 1 - The missing 10/10.5x multipliers over 225 MHz FSB with CPU-Interface enabled.

    I cover CPU interface in more detail in Point 3.

    On "most" NF7/S boards when you go over 225 MHz FSB with a 10 or 10.5x multiplier the system will refuse to post. This is only fixable if you use bios d_10.bin, this is the only bios with this problem does not occur. To use d_10 you must use the windows based flash utility. The bios is perfectly stable on most NF7's but unfortunately the SATA bios in it has corruption problems. There are variants of D_10.bin with the latest sata bios so you can search round for these.

    Ok firstly using the basic guide find your CPU limits and use the vcore voltage it requires to do 2260 MHz, if you cant do 2260 Mhz you dont need to worry about this issue so move on.

    Then on the bios you are using set as follows, in this example im using an week 28, 2800+ AQUCA which does 2260 MHz prime stable with 1.65v:

    Softmenu III Setup:

    CPU operating speed > user define
    - External Clock > 226 MHz
    - Multiplier Factor > x10
    AGP Frequency > 66 MHz
    CPU FSB/DRAM ratio ratio - 6/6
    CPU Interface - enabled
    Power Supply Controller - user define
    - CPU Core Voltage > 1.675v
    - DDR SDRAM Voltage > 2.8v
    - Chipset Voltage > 1.6v
    - AGP Voltage > 1.5v
    CPU Over Temp. Protect > 110*C

    Advanced chipset features:

    Memory Timings > expert
    - Row-active delay > 11
    - RAS-to-CAS delay > 3
    - Row-precharge delay > 3
    - CAS latency Time > 2.5
    System BIOS cacheable > disabled
    Video RAM cacheable > disabled
    AGP Aperture Size > 128
    FSB Spread Spectrum > disabled
    AGP Spread Spectrum > disabled
    CPU Thermal-Throttling > disabled
    Enhance PCI Performance > Enabled
    CPU Disconnect Function > disabled
    AGP Data transfer Rate > 8X (Max rate according to card)
    AGP Fast Write Capability > disabled

    Now save and reboot.

    If the PC starts a siren sound when it attempts to POST don't worry it just means you have the 10/10.5x problem. So turn off the PC using the main switch on the PSU or pull out the Power cable if your psu has no switch. Then repower upthe PC and that will have defaulted to safeguard settings. If it still wont POST try again and hold INSERT on boot. If again it won't clear the CMOS as a last resort.

    Ok if you have the problem goto http://www.motherboardfaqs.com and download d_10.bin for the NF7 V2.0 (MAKE SURE ITS FOR THE V2.0 BOARD!).

    Using a flashmenu version lower than 1.3 (ie. 1.2) flash to d_10.bin using the "from file" option.

    Once succesfully flashed retry the above and behold your new FSB possibilities :)

    If your board hates this bios then you are one of the unfortunate few who haven't got a work around. If you are try d_18.bin as some have got the 10 and 10.5 to work on that.

    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    POINT 2 - The 220 FSB wall with a tbred

    If you have a thoroughbred chip and you have done the above and still can't over 220MHz FSB then check out the L12 Mod here:

    http://www.geocities.com/trats102002/nf7sFsbsense.html

    This should solve your problems as it did me when i had a 2100+ AIUHB chip.

    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    POINT 3 - CPU Interface issues

    Now some of you may or may not know but CPU interface is not exacly what it sounds like or describes.

    From my testing i have come to the conclusion that CPU-Interface affects both memory performance and stability.

    As a quick test and example for you set your system to default CPU speed and FSB and disable CPU-Interface. Boot up, open Sis-Soft Sandra and run memory benchmark, note the results and reboot.

    Go back to the bios, enable it and reboot (don't touch anything else) Boot up, open Sis-Soft Sandra and run memory benchmark. Yes, WOW, exactly, your memory scores higher even though its at the same speed ;)

    So for those of you crying "Man this memory is crap" it may not be crap just not exceptional as having CPU interface on makes it faster at the same clocks as other boards as it pushes more out of the memory.

    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    POINT 4 - Differenent "better" bios's

    From my experience the best bios versions for my board have been:

    d_10.bin:

    Pros:

    - No 10/10.5x multiplier & CPU interface problems
    - Highest FSB attained with this bios

    Cons:
    - High temp (overeads cpu temp)
    - Sata corruption problems

    d_14beta:

    Pros:

    - Best clock to clock performance
    - No SATA issues
    - Highest CPU Speed attained with bios

    Cons:

    - 10/10.5x multiplier & CPU interface problems
    - Beta bios and therefore scary, right? :D
    - Low temp readings, innacurate and worringly low.

    Both bios's can be downloaded from http://www.motherboardfaqs.com (MAKE SURE ITS FOR THE V2.0 BOARD!).

    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    POINT 5 - Vcore / vdimm and +3.3v rail requirements

    Vcore:

    The NF7 has bad voltage regualation when it comes to vcore. When set at a any level the board under volts by 0.01~0.03v.

    For example, to use a true 1.65v the bios needs to be set to 1.675v. The problem becomes even worse with vcores over 1.85v.

    This is not as some may assume always a PSU issue as even with a top end PSU with 33AMPS on the +12 rail it still happens.

    Also when using high vcore (ie. over 2.0v) with high FSB (ie. over 235) you may encounter posting problems.

    Vdimm and the +3.3v rail:

    On the NF7 board the vdimm overvolts period. Thats a fact. Despite what the bios shows the H/W monitor on the NF7 is dreadful and way out on vdimm/+3.3v readings. Only way is to use a multimeter. This however is very dangerous as one slip could frag your board.

    However i'll make it easy for you, as it is the same with almost all NF7's:

    2.9v bios = 3.01v
    2.8v bios = 2.90v
    2.7v bios = 2.80v
    2.6v bios = 2.70v

    The +3.3v rail is however hard to determine as it can only be verified by checking the board. As my bios always shows the +3.3 to be 3.33v when itis ofen at the highest 3.51v and at the lowest 3.26v (when using prime95 torture at 3.20v or more vdimm) ;)

    The +3.3v rail is only really important at high vdimm usually over 3.0 volts.

    For example my vmodded board has it set to roughly 3.25v using a 1K Variable resistor.

    If the +3.3v rail is at 3.41 my vdimm is 3.28v, when the rail is at 3.30v it drops to 3.23v and when at as low as 3.26v the vdimm drops down to 3.20v. This is because the vdimm is dependant on how much voltage it can draw from the +3.3v rail.

    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    POINT 6 - How long to run prime and what to look for

    Prime95 takes a long time thats the trouble. However for quick FSB/CPU hunting this is what i do.

    I'm using version 2.3.7 by the way.

    All i do is click torture test select "Blend" and OK it. It then runs iterations of the 1024K primes. If it runs until it says "1024K Passed Sucessful" or something like that, this takes around 15~20mins, i consider that a possiblity for a fully stable FSB / CPU speed.

    Once it fails those either up the volts or back off the FSB. Once your happy let it run at that setting for an hour. Usually if it runs for an hour its stable enough for games and general folding etc. You may however encounter a reboot or bsod but unlikely.

    If you let it run and i goes over 3hrs i'd consider it rock solid, if it runs upto 8hrs its a boulder, if it runs over a day its mount fuji with a cherry on top, in other words it wont budge.

    Also have a read at this how to set up prime correctly: http://www.ocforums.com/vb/vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=248225

    However, heheh you knew this was coming :p , this does not guarantee its 3D stable. It most likely is, but some cards my be unhappy with massive FSB. So i suggest looping 3D mark 2001 over and over to ensure its ok. If it kicks out in Lobby test back down on the FSB until it doesn't.

    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    POINT 7 - How to recover from potential non POST'ing

    If at any time your system refuses to boot or makes a siren sound when attempting to post turn off the PC using the main switch on the PSU or pull out the Power cable if your psu has no switch. Then re-power up the PC and that will have defaulted to safeguard settings. If it still wont POST try again and hold INSERT on boot. If again it won't clear the CMOS as a last resort.

    If it still wont boot, leave it for a few hours. If still no luck RMA time ;)

    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    POINT 8 - Memory/timing and restrictions.

    Now on your hunt for FSB you may encounter some restrictions and no matter what voltage you use it refuses, even a kick in the dimm solves nothing :(

    Well see that advance chipset features section in the bios? get your ass in there. And set as follows.

    Memory Timings > expert
    - Row-active delay > 11
    - RAS-to-CAS delay > 3
    - Row-precharge delay > 3
    - CAS latency Time > 2.5

    Try again and you may get it to stay stable. If you still don't a boot up then drop the CAS from 2.5 to 3.0. If you still don't boot add some more voltage, 2.8 is a general warranted maximum but 2.9v (3.01v actual) prolly wont cause any harm. Ive used 3.38v for days for gods sake lol.

    If you have maxed your volts and no luck memory is utter poo, jk.

    Also note if your using BH5 memory which hates CAS3.0 and sometimes even CAS2.5.

    Either way if you get no luck its time to grab a solder iron and some balls. Yep vmod time.

    This mod can be found at http://www.motherboardfaqs.com

    Also while im at it you may have noticed me using a "Row-active delay" or "TRAS" as its usually known as of 11. Yes 11, mmkay?

    After testing, its proven that not only is tras 11 more stable, its actually faster in sandra memory bench and 3D Mark 2001 :eek:

    Heres some results from my testing:

    *NF7-S @240FSBx10 (480MHz DDR) 6/6 divider and Dual Ch. Sisoft sandra max 3 bandwidth test*

    2-2-2-3 Int: 3661(95% eff.)
    2-2-2-3 Float: 3431(89% eff.)

    2-2-2-4 Int: 3665(95% eff.)
    2-2-2-4 Float: 3430(89% eff.)

    2-2-2-5 Int: 3666(95% eff.)
    2-2-2-5 Float: 3443(89% eff.)

    2-2-2-6 Int: 3675(95% eff.)
    2-2-2-6 Float: 3440(89% eff.)

    2-2-2-7 Int: 3679(95% eff.)
    2-2-2-7 Float: 3446(89% eff.)

    2-2-2-8 Int: 3674(95% eff.)
    2-2-2-8 Float: 3445(89% eff.)

    2-2-2-9 Int: 3686(96% eff.)
    2-2-2-9 Float: 3448(89% eff.)

    2-2-2-10 Int: 3691(96% eff.)
    2-2-2-10 Float: 3452(90% eff.)

    2-2-2-11 Int: 3702(96% eff.)
    2-2-2-11 Float: 3457(90% eff.)


    2-2-2-12 Int: 3698(96% eff.)
    2-2-2-12 Float: 3450(89% eff.)

    Any higher continued to drop.

    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    So there you go, theres my addition to this thread. Hope it helps and live long and prosper etc

    Ricjax99 out.

    PS. Also note how meaningless a post count/forum status is, not bad for a newb eh? LOL
     
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2004
  8. Fubsy

    Sgarrista

    Joined: Dec 12, 2003

    Posts: 8,767

    Location: Thatcham

    how come he was banned?
     
  9. gazflat44

    Wise Guy

    Joined: Nov 17, 2003

    Posts: 1,194

    Location: Circa Mancland

    Hmm dunno, perhaps we shall never know.

    My NF7-S setup is rock solid with 200 x 11 @ 6 3 2 2 however if I up the FSB to 210 i get "missing file ... " when it starts to load windows.
    My RAM is set to 2.8 in the BIOS, and although im not too fussed if 210 isnt achievabel in my setup wondered what the main culprit could be?

    2600+ Barton, Corsair XMS platinum 3200LLPT. The only BIOS setting different that I have noticed is the "Enhance PCI performance" I set to disabled.
     
  10. Chong Warrior

    Capodecina

    Joined: Oct 18, 2002

    Posts: 12,044

    Location: Manchester

    You need to up the voltage to your northbrdge to 1.7v m8;)
     
  11. gazflat44

    Wise Guy

    Joined: Nov 17, 2003

    Posts: 1,194

    Location: Circa Mancland

    OK thanks Chong, i shall try upping my northbridge a bit, what is the safe voltage for this?

    Cheers

    Gaz
     
  12. Chong Warrior

    Capodecina

    Joined: Oct 18, 2002

    Posts: 12,044

    Location: Manchester

    1.7v is maximum unless you volt mod it ( i.e. pencil trick ), no worries with 1.7v;)
     
  13. Drak_nyen

    Hitman

    Joined: Oct 23, 2003

    Posts: 515

    Location: Middlesex

    ^^BUMP FOR NEWBIES^^
     
  14. biggy7

    Hitman

    Joined: Jun 3, 2003

    Posts: 578

    Location: North West

    ok noob question here, do you have to have an overclockable graphics card to overclock ya cpu? or can you leave graphics card at default settings?
     
  15. Chong Warrior

    Capodecina

    Joined: Oct 18, 2002

    Posts: 12,044

    Location: Manchester

    hehe, that's a n00bie question if ever I heard one:D no offence;) we all have to start somewhere.

    No, the graphics card has nothing to do with your CPU overclocking, so yes you can leave it at default settings, and vice versa. So you can overclock graphics and leave CPU at default.
     
  16. biggy7

    Hitman

    Joined: Jun 3, 2003

    Posts: 578

    Location: North West

    hehe this has been bugging me for ages :), i thought thats why people buy the high end gfx cards so they can overclock along side the cpu:D

    thanks for the quick reply :)
     
  17. windog

    Gangster

    Joined: Aug 10, 2003

    Posts: 463

    Location: yeovil

    Thanks, I found this guide very usefull

    Mods..... Please clean up and sticky!
     
  18. SteveP

    Associate

    Joined: Apr 2, 2003

    Posts: 76

    ok, I have got a question about OCing on an NF-7. I've got a Barton 2500+, but I don't suspect that's relevant.

    Is there any difference between (say):

    200fsb x 10 (2000Mhz), and mem at 6/5 (333Mhz)

    and

    166fsb x 12 (2000Mhz), and mem at 6/6 (333Mhz)

    My point being, is it simply a case of setting the fsb and multiplier to get the CPU speed you want, while at the same time setting the fsb/DRAM ratio to run the RAM at the speed you want?

    For example (assuming the fsb can be pushed that far), the above config (CPU @ 2Ghz, and mem at 333Mhz) can be achieved with a fsb of 250, a multiplier of 8, and ratio of 6/4, or a fsb of 125, mulitplier of 16, and ratio of 3/4.

    (Apologies if any of these settings are not available, I'm just reading the possibilities from a spreadsheet I put together, rather than looking in the BIOS)

    I see lots of people with high fsb, does that give any real benefit if the same CPU and mem speed can be achieved with a different config? Having scanned this thread, I didn't see anything that answered my question.

    Hopefully that's clear. ;)

    Cheers,

    Steve.
     
  19. windog

    Gangster

    Joined: Aug 10, 2003

    Posts: 463

    Location: yeovil

    I think from what I have Gleaned on these boards the higher the fsb the better the performance so 200x10 would give you a faster computer, although ot reads as the same Ghz
     
  20. Psycrow

    Mobster

    Joined: Jan 16, 2003

    Posts: 4,948

    Location: Kirkcaldy, Scotland

    Increaseing the Vcore wont give you a higher FSB, the FSB is limited by chipset voltage and Ram voltage. The core voltage only effects the internal clock speed of the CPU.

    One thing you should mention in the guide, ram timings will normally have to be lowered to get a very high FSB or to get lower speeds to ram to clock.

    SteveP, running at 200*10 and mem at 6/5 or 166*12 will be just about as fast as each other. On the Nforce chipset the 200 with ram on 6/4 might be slower since the chipset doesnt run Async very well. When using an Nforce 2, try running 1:1 ram:fsb ratio at all times.