Apparently lost £100m a year for 2 years. I'd guess Covid had a big part to play. I'm guessing they would have done this sooner without furlough.
Would it have been better if it was by post though or made to work their notice?
P & O Ferries
- Thread starter Uther
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Apparently lost £100m a year for 2 years. I'd guess Covid had a big part to play. I'm guessing they would have done this sooner without furlough.
Would it have been better if it was by post though or made to work their notice?
Normally you get months and months of anxiety and "vague prewarnings".
This was like a swift blow to the neck which leaves uncertainty, so at least having the severance package laid out clearly would have been useful to stop anxiety.
Soldato
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Just seen an offer on my linkedin feed from Easyjet to fast track cabin crew applications for P&O staff: https://www.linkedin.com/posts/easy...=linkedin_share&utm_medium=member_desktop_web
Even just getting staff fully familiar with a new ship is likely going to take a long time, so they're quite likely to start sailing with a lot of staff who don't know them very well.
They may be "fully qualified" in other aspects, but getting to the point where you can find your way around any ship or large building in a hurry without having to think about it tends to take more than a few days, to be able to do it reliably in potential emergency situations takes a lot longer.
So completely ignoring how the company has behaved in moral/legal terms, I would be having doubts about safety in an emergency situation because whilst the new crews may be competent, there is a good chance many of them are going to be unfamiliar with the peculiarities of the individual ships.
Soldato
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Horrendous of P&O to treat staff like this.
I thought that if you made a position redundant then it couldn't be filled for a certain amount of time, so how can they justify filling this positions with agency staff?
This will be an interesting situation to follow, surely there is going to be a big legal case following this.
I thought that if you made a position redundant then it couldn't be filled for a certain amount of time, so how can they justify filling this positions with agency staff?
This will be an interesting situation to follow, surely there is going to be a big legal case following this.
Soldato
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So on the news this morning it seems the crews contracts were based in Jersey so outside the UK legislation
Also should be said due to international waters etc maritime employment contracts are somewhat different.
You hear of odd things like people stuck on a ship places where they cannot leave, even though not being paid (such as parent company going bust)
Its yet another example of antiquated law that needs updating to reflect the modern world.
I bet Jacob Fleas Dogg creamed his panties about acting the same in the UK, how very victorian. The rest of the government however are taking offence.
I dont think P&O Ferries are going to do well in the court of public opinion.
Also as pointed out on the news this is the sort of thing thats typical in places like Dubai so decision and strategy may well have been decided upon elsewhere.
Also should be said due to international waters etc maritime employment contracts are somewhat different.
You hear of odd things like people stuck on a ship places where they cannot leave, even though not being paid (such as parent company going bust)
Its yet another example of antiquated law that needs updating to reflect the modern world.
I bet Jacob Fleas Dogg creamed his panties about acting the same in the UK, how very victorian. The rest of the government however are taking offence.
I dont think P&O Ferries are going to do well in the court of public opinion.
Also as pointed out on the news this is the sort of thing thats typical in places like Dubai so decision and strategy may well have been decided upon elsewhere.
Just a guess. IANAL etc. But I am guessing they will be asking their staff to sign-away any right to that. In the zoom call it was said staff had to sign an agreement form for their enhanced redundancy terms by 31st March. Maybe that form includes some kind of waiver, otherwise they will just revert to staturay redundancy which is a few weeks pay.
So I am guessing P&O expected:
All agency staff to start training on the ships immediately.
All/most previous staff to have signed the waiver by end March.
Normal operations to resume by 1st April.
But I don't think it's going to go quite a smoothly as that with this outcry and some staff refusing to leave the ships.
Soldato
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Yeah its pretty much practice now when you offer enhanced redundancy its conditional on signing a contract / NDA (hybrid compared to what we would historically think) that specifically excludes comments on details of the agreement and also later suing the company for failure to follow unemployment law or unfair dismissal etc
As such you need to see a solicitor (company will pay something like £350) so that your solicitor can advise whether you should or shouldn't sign.
I tend to find myself thinking its a good thing generally. I would much rather walk out with an enhanced package, cut my losses and accept it than fighting and losing anyway, walking out with more money will always be better than statutory.
As such you need to see a solicitor (company will pay something like £350) so that your solicitor can advise whether you should or shouldn't sign.
I tend to find myself thinking its a good thing generally. I would much rather walk out with an enhanced package, cut my losses and accept it than fighting and losing anyway, walking out with more money will always be better than statutory.
https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www....cs/breaking-tories-block-law-ban-25277954.amp
Well, people keep voting them in, so its obviously what they want. The Tories blocked the Labour motion last year to ban the equally despicable practice of 'fire and rehire'
It's easy to step round this....the company simply 'ship staffing services' to a supplier....ta-da, P&O Ferries no longer has any positions for ship staff.
Indeed....this is the reality of Conservative idealogy. Business first. People second.
Soldato
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Normally this would fall under TUPE
If their contracts are all based out of Jersey then the employment laws will be very different. Jersey doesn't have TUPE.
Soldato
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Yeah I thought he was talking generally in how to get rid of staff, as I said above Maritime contracts are different anyway, quite foreign (no pun intended) compared to a normal UK contracts.
Exactly - a race to the bottom never works out well.
Soldato
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Why couldn't P&O offer the staff they just sacked the lower wage package they just gave to all the new cheaper paid staff they hired. Not all would have taken the pay cut, but im sure some would have.
Take the enhanced whatever and walk away. The prolonging of holding onto a job like this will do none of them any good. If they by some chance manage to force P&O backwards then the whole business will sink (pun intended)
I've watched enough companies go through this kind of thing to know its never good to hang about, months of soulless worry and still the same end. Take the money and find something better.
I've watched enough companies go through this kind of thing to know its never good to hang about, months of soulless worry and still the same end. Take the money and find something better.
I'd like to know the numbers but the unions would never have gone with it, it has to be significantly less if they are willing to do this and pay enhanced redundancy then move to agency or whatever.