Paris attacks.

[Danthus]

If Islam as a religion is the cause, and for some the only cause, why weren't Muslims terrorising mainland Europe decades ago when security was far more lax? The religion and the Quran haven't changed, so why were Muslims less interested in carrying out attacks on mainland Europe than they are now?

I mean, lets ignore American 'Imperialism', the Russian invasion of Afghanistan and the subsequent arming and training of the proto-Taliban faction in response, the removal of an elected Iranian leader and support of a pro-West puppet in his place, the perceived support of the West towards Israel regardless of their occupation of Palestinian territories, the Cold War and the proxy wars in smaller countries, the support of pro-West but corrupt regimes in the Middle East. Lets forget all of that, because it's simply...religion.

Interesting read here

http://www.cf2r.org/fr/tribune-libre/islamist-terrorism-in-europe-the-case-of-belgium.php

You seem rather happy to put the blame on one half of the court while doing everything possible to ignore the factor of Islam.

 

[Deleted member 651465]

That's what they want, to break our resolve and spirit.

Indeed. Let's hope that something meaningful is found in any investigation that puts a stop or reduces any further attacks.

I imagine anyone living in or around Paris has spent most of the night on the phone trying to get through to loved ones. I don't know how that feels personally, but I can imagine it is hell. Glad to hear your friends are OK FF.

I haven't got any more to say about it, other than there are some crazy people in the world and I wish they'd all take the guns to their own heads and save everyone the trouble.

 

[Raz]

You seem rather happy to put the blame on one half of the court while doing everything possible to ignore the factor of Islam.

Not at all, a better understanding of the Quran has led me away from Islam. Something I haven't shared with most people I know though...

I'll support who ever is right and I don't think the Western Governments are blameless, or the Muslims who commit these crimes are right. At the end of the day it's the people who are suffering, and I don't care if they are white or brown, Muslim or non-Muslim. A life lost in such circumstances is a tragedy but I do know what the families of yesterday's victims are going through because my family has gone through it as well.

But blaming religion, the Quran, the Sky Pixie, or whatever, isn't dealing with the real causes.

 

[Roar87]

If Islam as a religion is the cause, and for some the only cause, why weren't Muslims terrorising mainland Europe decades ago when security was far more lax? The religion and the Quran haven't changed, so why were Muslims less interested in carrying out attacks on mainland Europe than they are now?

I mean, lets ignore American 'Imperialism', the Russian invasion of Afghanistan and the subsequent arming and training of the proto-Taliban faction in response, the removal of an elected Iranian leader and support of a pro-West puppet in his place, the perceived support of the West towards Israel regardless of their occupation of Palestinian territories, the Cold War and the proxy wars in smaller countries, the support of pro-West but corrupt regimes in the Middle East. Lets forget all of that, because it's simply...religion.

Interesting read here

http://www.cf2r.org/fr/tribune-libre/islamist-terrorism-in-europe-the-case-of-belgium.php

Which victims of the Paris attacks did those things?

 

[Tefal]

If Islam as a religion is the cause, and for some the only cause, why weren't Muslims terrorising mainland Europe decades ago when security was far more lax? The religion and the Quran haven't changed, so why were Muslims less interested in carrying out attacks on mainland Europe than they are now?

I mean, lets ignore American 'Imperialism', the Russian invasion of Afghanistan and the subsequent arming and training of the proto-Taliban faction in response, the removal of an elected Iranian leader and support of a pro-West puppet in his place, the perceived support of the West towards Israel regardless of their occupation of Palestinian territories, the Cold War and the proxy wars in smaller countries, the support of pro-West but corrupt regimes in the Middle East. Lets forget all of that, because it's simply...religion.

Interesting read here

http://www.cf2r.org/fr/tribune-libre/islamist-terrorism-in-europe-the-case-of-belgium.php

But equally they aren't yelling "down with political interference " before they shoot people are they

 

[Destination]

If Islam as a religion is the cause, and for some the only cause, why weren't Muslims terrorising mainland Europe decades ago when security was far more lax? The religion and the Quran haven't changed, so why were Muslims less interested in carrying out attacks on mainland Europe than they are now?

I mean, lets ignore American 'Imperialism', the Russian invasion of Afghanistan and the subsequent arming and training of the proto-Taliban faction in response, the removal of an elected Iranian leader and support of a pro-West puppet in his place, the perceived support of the West towards Israel regardless of their occupation of Palestinian territories, the Cold War and the proxy wars in smaller countries, the support of pro-West but corrupt regimes in the Middle East. Lets forget all of that, because it's simply...religion.

Easy access to arms, easy travel, global communications, increased wealth, loss of their controlling dictators. These are the reasons for increased attacks and easier attacks. The west did all you say, but it didn't cause Johnny Jihad to pop off to Syria to start chopping off heads. Just like Britain today doesn't do anything which gives dissident republicans the right to conduct acts of terror. They do it because they can, they do it because they want to. They choose to, they choose to become indoctrinated by their code, they choose to travel, they choose to kill. It isn't self-defence for a British Jihadi to travel to Syria, to train, to come home and kill. That's utter twaddle on your part. The region might be ****ed off at the interference and history, but it is the new code they decide to adhere to that actually is their RELIGION.

 

[Danthus]

Not at all, a better understanding of the Quran has led me away from Islam. Something I haven't shared with most people I know though...

Some Muslims killing people, recruiting others to kill people will say it is them who have the better understanding of Islam.

 

[stufflol]

Inb4

 

[Jono8]

If Islam as a religion is the cause, and for some the only cause, why weren't Muslims terrorising mainland Europe decades ago when security was far more lax? The religion and the Quran haven't changed, so why were Muslims less interested in carrying out attacks on mainland Europe than they are now?

I mean, lets ignore American 'Imperialism', the Russian invasion of Afghanistan and the subsequent arming and training of the proto-Taliban faction in response, the removal of an elected Iranian leader and support of a pro-West puppet in his place, the perceived support of the West towards Israel regardless of their occupation of Palestinian territories, the Cold War and the proxy wars in smaller countries, the support of pro-West but corrupt regimes in the Middle East. Lets forget all of that, because it's simply...religion.

Interesting read here

http://www.cf2r.org/fr/tribune-libre/islamist-terrorism-in-europe-the-case-of-belgium.php

You say that as though it is an excuse.

Nations have done horrible things to other nations throughout history, yet it is mainly Muslim fundamentalists who seem to have the biggest chip on their shoulder about everything and everyone, and seem to try and seek retribution for all the ills put on them by other people and other nations.

The fact is, they need to look closer to home and realise a lot of their problems stem from their own outdated, archaic society and traditions ( and by that, I mean how it affects their ability to cooperate with the rest of the developed world.)

 

[kissenger]

If Islam as a religion is the cause, and for some the only cause, why weren't Muslims terrorising mainland Europe decades ago when security was far more lax?

Well I don't agree with the premiss of your question, but to answer it: the reason is because there weren't nearly as many Muslims in Europe decades ago. The vast majority came in the post-WWII period.

And you're also discounting the possibility that religions can change. Maybe Islam really was more peaceful in the past, but if it was it has now (for many Muslims) clearly morphed into something much more violent and extremist and dogmatic.

If you think that Islam has nothing to do with it then you are just denying reality.

 

[oldbag]

And on a side note, but do you think the full snoopers charter would have stopped this?

 

[Slam62]

If Islam as a religion is the cause, and for some the only cause, why weren't Muslims terrorising mainland Europe decades ago when security was far more lax? The religion and the Quran haven't changed, so why were Muslims less interested in carrying out attacks on mainland Europe than they are now?

I mean, lets ignore American 'Imperialism', the Russian invasion of Afghanistan and the subsequent arming and training of the proto-Taliban faction in response, the removal of an elected Iranian leader and support of a pro-West puppet in his place, the perceived support of the West towards Israel regardless of their occupation of Palestinian territories, the Cold War and the proxy wars in smaller countries, the support of pro-West but corrupt regimes in the Middle East. Lets forget all of that, because it's simply...religion.

Interesting read here

http://www.cf2r.org/fr/tribune-libre/islamist-terrorism-in-europe-the-case-of-belgium.php

Totally agree, you reap what you sow.

 

[Stretch]

It is quite a bleak



That's what they want, to break our resolve and spirit.

I don't think the ultimate objective is to break our spirit. They want to provoke a full scale war with the west. They want NATO troops to be sent into the Middle East, and use that as a recruitment tool to draw more of the Islamic world into to the conflict.

 

[Noxia]

Has gatwick north really been evacuated or are the Daily Mail just creative writing again?

 

[aardvark]

But Islam has changed - you just have to look how progressive a lot of muslim countries were 50/100 years ago (hey, even a 1000 years ago!).
but the last 50 years has seen it become much more dogmatic - i have no idea why this has happened.

 

[stopper]

IS have claimed responsibility according to the BBC. Not a shock really.

No they haven't. Only the western media have claimed it was IS.
There has been no official claims to it yet.

People need to stop automatically believing every thing they hear on state sponsored media like the BBC and Sky news, and start questioning things. Remember when the BBC claimed Russia shot down the plane in Ukraine? Whatever happened to that story, eh?

I am betting this is another false flag, created to allow NATO to send in ground troops to Syria and N Iraq. Watch what happens.

 

[Danthus]

Kay Burley has just walked through the blood of the victims to point out a bullet hole in a wall.

She disgusts me.

 

[Frozennova]

Has gatwick north really been evacuated or are the Daily Mail just creative writing again?

Its being reported on BBC News as well

 

[Raz]

Well I don't agree with the premiss of your question, but to answer it: the reason is because there weren't nearly as many Muslims in Europe decades ago. The vast majority came in the post-WWII period.

And you're also discounting the possibility that religions can change. Maybe Islam really was more peaceful in the past, but if it was it has now (for many Muslims) clearly morphed into something much more violent and extremist and dogmatic.

If you think that Islam has nothing to do with it then you are just denying reality.

And this is the key thing. Islam as a religion hasn't changed, but the environment in which it exists has and Muslims have re-interpreted rulings and laws to deal with the issues.

It certainly is more violent, and more extreme, but it's evolved into that. Muslims should stick to the principles of religion. All Muslim children are taught that when the Prophet was persecuted he often used violence as a last resort yet as adults Muslims ignore that.

Has anyone read the Righteous Mind?

 

[Matutu]

The EU unfortunately is very backwards and in a way to "Honorable" in its acts (well tries to look like it). The EU preach how we are "higher" or more civilized to carry out certain acts, which unfortunately our enemy's to not care nor respect these ways. We can have as many meetings in Vienna as we want and watch the situation unfold and keep our eyes on ISIS, however ISIS will eventually turn and look directly back at those who watch.

Its like have a enemy of a great white shark.... you can try and reason and use diplomacy (much like our Labour leader would like to see), however as we all know this is useless and will lead no where to one day that shark biting. So what to do with the shark, you dont run away as that leads to a even worst state. You control it, you quarantine it and eventually if it does not learn you deal with it.

Taking a view that we are higher and we must accept everything even though it is against our values is useless.

ISIS is going to keep growing in power and influence. A fact many people miss is ISIS wants war! they want suffering! They need to be seen as the protectors of Islam, if they have no war they have nothing to protect.