PC vs Console, has high GPU prices played a part?

[Hedge]

It's disingenuous to argue that it's a hassle to move your PC or that it must be custom loop when things like this (below) exist & are 98% as fast as a WCed version, and they don't even require higher costs, only smarter choices. Plus the consoles aren't even compact anymore, so you can't even argue the size! And as for "oh but it's easier to get into the game on console", also false, Steam Big Picture exists and you can do all that with your gamepad in windows, and if we really want to be honest a compact keyboard is very cheap & easy to use so you don't have to struggle with a gamepad only if you don't want to.
People should just admit they're being illogical and lazy, it's fine, that's why the console market thrives, but it's not based in any rationality whatsoever.

I have a cooler master nr200p and it's an awesome case yet funnily enough I can stand 2 of my series x in the same footprint so don't talk wet.

Oh. And I could plug my keyboard and mouse into my xbox and use it for a bunch of games and to use Microsoft Edge browser too.

 

[Relentless81]

My last PC was in an NR200P and my Series X takes up significantly less space, is significantly smaller and lighter

Doesn't matter though, the only real argument about PC Vs Console at this moment Is price/performance other than that there are positive and negative arguments for both but price/performance the console is the clear winner delivering the performance of a PC more than twice the price. Let's not forget the games are developed first and foremost for console and the PC versions are generally just ports that either take a while to be tweaked after release to perform better than the console versions or remain a mess

 

[_Cereal_]

That 6900XT gonna be sweating bricks on that setup lol

 

[Grim5]

That 6900XT gonna be sweating bricks on that setup lol

I can't wait for next gen: "hey guys, why is my 600w 7900xt overheating in my nr200p"

 

[V F]

My last PC was in an NR200P and my Series X takes up significantly less space, is significantly smaller and lighter

Doesn't matter though, the only real argument about PC Vs Console at this moment Is price/performance other than that there are positive and negative arguments for both but price/performance the console is the clear winner delivering the performance of a PC more than twice the price. Let's not forget the games are developed first and foremost for console and the PC versions are generally just ports that either take a while to be tweaked after release to perform better than the console versions or remain a mess

That's the most amusing part of it all. "PC Master race" really is second class citizens.

 

[KeanuIsLife]

That's the most amusing part of it all. "PC Master race" really is second class citizens.

Yeah realistically the PC master race is almost exclusively made of people with systems way worse than current gen consoles, just the very top few percent will have a 3070-3090 or 6800xt/6900xt.

 

[Hedge]

Yeah realistically the PC master race is almost exclusively made of people with systems way worse than current gen consoles, just the very top few percent will have a 3070-3090 or 6800xt/6900xt.

You'd think that people might understand this. But they seem to believe that because they frequent a Graphics Card enthusiast forum that everyone who owns pcs across the globe must be rocking high end gpus.

 

[KeanuIsLife]

You'd think that people might understand this. But they seem to believe that because they frequent a Graphics Card enthusiast forum, that everyone who owns pcs across the globe must be rocking high end gpus.

Haha yeah I get that feeling too, I think it depends on who you surround yourself with and when you surround yourself with enthusiast pc gamer types that seems like the only pc gamers there are.
Most of my friends who are pc gamers have pretty modest setups and game at 1080p 60fps, not 4k 120fps

 

[_Cereal_]

Haha yeah I get that feeling too, I think it depends on who you surround yourself with and when you surround yourself with enthusiast pc gamer types that seems like the only pc gamers there are.
Most of my friends who are pc gamers have pretty modest setups and game at 1080p 60fps, not 4k 120fps

Ironically enough from my circle of friends the ones with the higher end computers are the ones that game the less, they will spend a lot more tinkering with settings, overclocks, benckmarks though.

 

[Hedge]

Ironically enough from my circle of friends the ones with the higher end computers are the ones that game the less, they will spend a lot more tinkering with settings, overclocks, benckmarks though.

In my workplace the people who talk about games with the most passion and interest, discussing actual gameplay and stories are also those less bothered about framerates or resolution. They just chat about the experience.

Ive said this all on here before. There's loads of people who seem to spend hours on the gpu forum but are way less active on the pc games forum.

 

[KeanuIsLife]

In my workplace the people who talk about games with the most passion and interest, discussing actual gameplay and stories are also those less bothered about framerates or resolution. They just chat about the experience.

Ive said this all on here before. There's loads of people who seem to spend hours on the gpu forum but are way less active on the pc games forum.

This is super interesting to me, like the passion is more in the hardware than the software the higher end you go. I'd hope I never get too lost in that stuff to lose sight of the games themselves, they're the most important thing.

 

[Hedge]

This is super interesting to me, like the passion is more in the hardware than the software the higher end you go. I'd hope I never get too lost in that stuff to lose sight of the games themselves, they're the most important thing.

It's how it is. I've been guilty of the same myself. Flipping from one game to the next saying "wow look how awesome my graphics are" but not actually investing any real time or interest in the game.

Once you remove the obsession with the technical stuff you can often just see the game for what it is. Be that story or art direction etc.

Last of Us games are hands down the best games I've ever played. They are memorable and even though I likely played them at 30fps that aspect means nothing to me.

And for the record I spent many thousands of hours on my pc. Playing mainly Dota2, counter strike or world of warcraft. Pc gaming consumed me more than anything. But that had nothing to do with my pc being way better than a console.

 

[KeanuIsLife]

It's how it is. I've been guilty of the same myself. Flipping from one game to the next saying "wow look how awesome my graphics are" but not actually investing any real time or interest in the game.

Once you remove the obsession with the technical stuff you can often just see the game for what it is. Be that story or art direction etc.

Last of Us games are hands down the best games I've ever played. They are memorable and even though I likely played them at 30fps that's aspect means nothing to me.

I do love Last of Us! Part 2 less so but I still like it a lot. I played part 2 at 30 FPS first time but the first at 60 on PS4 pro and later played part 2 at 60 on ps5.
I will say that the obsession with 60 FPS I can see and do much prefer as that actually enhances the gameplay for me. It's not just pretty graphics for the sake of pretty graphics.

 

[Hedge]

I do love Last of Us! Part 2 less so but I still like it a lot. I played part 2 at 30 FPS first time but the first at 60 on PS4 pro and later played part 2 at 60 on ps5.
I will say that the obsession with 60 FPS I can see and do much prefer as that actually enhances the gameplay for me. It's not just pretty graphics for the sake of pretty graphics.

Framerate without a doubt makes a difference yeah. I've played at 144hz for years on my pc now and I definitely appreciate console games at 60/120.

One thing I personally find is that I only notice the difference from medium - ultra settings in games when I stop actually gaming and stare at the screen. Once playing a game. Particularly an fps at 60fps + im too busy looking at a reticle and viewing most of the game in my peripheral vision.

Slower paced games allow you to appreciate visuals more. And funnily enough they don't tend to need 120fps to enjoy.

 

[KeanuIsLife]

Framerate without a doubt makes a difference yeah. I've played at 144hz for years on my pc now and I definitely appreciate console games at 60/120.

One thing I personally find is that I only notice the difference from medium - ultra settings in games when I stop actually gaming and stare at the screen. Once playing a game. Particularly an fps at 60fps + im too busy looking at a reticle and viewing most of the game in my peripheral vision.

Slower paced games allow you to appreciate visuals more. And funnily enough they don't tend to need 120fps to enjoy.

Huh yeah good point, didn't think about it like that. Yeah I am loving the 120hz monitor and TV when console games make use of it. One thing I'm really loving about the newer consoles is that I haven't noticed any game that is limited to 30fps. That does make simply getting the game on console much more tempting, especially when I hear that the pc port is wonky.

 

[Hedge]

Huh yeah good point, didn't think about it like that. Yeah I am loving the 120hz monitor and TV when console games make use of it. One thing I'm really loving about the newer consoles is that I haven't noticed any game that is limited to 30fps. That does make simply getting the game on console much more tempting, especially when I hear that the pc port is wonky.

What people really should do is just buy a console as a supplement for their pc. Rather than slate them and keep harping on about how their pc is so amazing, maybe just buy an xbox or ps5 as if buying a hardware upgrade. Keep it on the side and use it for what it is...

A console. Not a pc replacement.

 

[Poneros]

That 6900XT gonna be sweating bricks on that setup lol

Nah, it's going to be fine. Superior RDNA 2 FPS/watt ftw!

Oh. And I could plug my keyboard and mouse into my xbox and use it for a bunch of games and to use Microsoft Edge browser too.

So are you arguing for a neutered version of a PC in the form of XSX? I don't get it.

I have a cooler master nr200p and it's an awesome case yet funnily enough I can stand 2 of my series x in the same footprint so don't talk wet.

My last PC was in an NR200P and my Series X takes up significantly less space, is significantly smaller and lighter

Yes, obviously it's still not as small, the point of the comparison is how it changed relatively between generations. The size difference is much smaller now, and mostly a moot point - if you want to fit it in the living room then it's small enough to rival a console without looking out of place. You can make ofc an sff as small as an XSX too, but too expensive for little reason (other than vanity). That is all besides the point.

Doesn't matter though, the only real argument about PC Vs Console at this moment Is price/performance other than that there are positive and negative arguments for both but price/performance the console is the clear winner delivering the performance of a PC more than twice the price.

Price/performance is way better on PC, that's not even a debate. Not when consoles have to deal with paid multiplayer, higher prices, being at the mercy of publishers for back-compat or new versions that actually allow the hardware to run the games past their original 900p 30fps last-gen level, fewer offers/shops, and no ability to let the console pay for itself via lending out compute power (crypto or other) and on and on it goes. There is a higher up-front cost for a PC, yes, but total cost of ownership is better in every way. If you don't want to bother with any of that, cool, but the argument remains.

Let's not forget the games are developed first and foremost for console and the PC versions are generally just ports that either take a while to be tweaked after release to perform better than the console versions or remain a mess

That's the most amusing part of it all. "PC Master race" really is second class citizens.

They are developed first and foremost, and in fact I'd say only, for the PC and on PCs. The only difference is there's a specific setup for the consoles & maybe a different API (for PS mostly; Xbox's API is almost identical with DX12), but otherwise it's PC-type hardware, x86, GPU straight from desktop with a few nicks here or there. It's really, today and since last-gen, just a PC with locked down software.
Overall though there is no magic optimization that exists on consoles, or some exotic new version of the game that runs that much better on consoles. Instead you just get lower settings that sometimes might be too low to be even offered for PC users (unless they go through ini files, if available) - but that's just because the hardware is ultimately limited so they need to cut deeper so that it runs. We had seen that all throughout last-gen for cross-platform titles but it's clear that it's no different for what were supposed to be console-only titles like HZD, DS etc. And with so many more PS titles now being made with the PC in mind from the get-go, it's even less of a case for "console titles & optimisations".
So it's almost never the case that the PC version will be running worse than the console one, i.e. comparable hardware & same settings. Really the only case that I can think of recently was for RE-V on PC where the DRM caused issues for the game, but that got patched and wasn't really to do with the game running better on consoles as much as a muck-up on the devs side because they doubled the DRM and that created a mess. In fact I can think of more times where on consoles the games might have improper framepacing and you can't do anything about it, but on PC it's easily remedied. Nevermind all sorts of QOL fixes.

Console optimisations have died with the PS3. They're a myth.

 

[V F]

It's how it is. I've been guilty of the same myself. Flipping from one game to the next saying "wow look how awesome my graphics are" but not actually investing any real time or interest in the game.

Once you remove the obsession with the technical stuff you can often just see the game for what it is. Be that story or art direction etc.

Last of Us games are hands down the best games I've ever played. They are memorable and even though I likely played them at 30fps that aspect means nothing to me.

And for the record I spent many thousands of hours on my pc. Playing mainly Dota2, counter strike or world of warcraft. Pc gaming consumed me more than anything. But that had nothing to do with my pc being way better than a console.

I've always found console exclusives sucks me in more than PC games.

 

[Hedge]

Nah, it's going to be fine. Superior RDNA 2 FPS/watt ftw!



So are you arguing for a neutered version of a PC in the form of XSX? I don't get it.




Yes, obviously it's still not as small, the point of the comparison is how it changed relatively between generations. The size difference is much smaller now, and mostly a moot point - if you want to fit it in the living room then it's small enough to rival a console without looking out of place. You can make ofc an sff as small as an XSX too, but too expensive for little reason (other than vanity). That is all besides the point.

Price/performance is way better on PC, that's not even a debate. Not when consoles have to deal with paid multiplayer, higher prices, being at the mercy of publishers for back-compat or new versions that actually allow the hardware to run the games past their original 900p 30fps last-gen level, fewer offers/shops, and no ability to let the console pay for itself via lending out compute power (crypto or other) and on and on it goes. There is a higher up-front cost for a PC, yes, but total cost of ownership is better in every way. If you don't want to bother with any of that, cool, but the argument remains.




They are developed first and foremost, and in fact I'd say only, for the PC and on PCs. The only difference is there's a specific setup for the consoles & maybe a different API (for PS mostly; Xbox's API is almost identical with DX12), but otherwise it's PC-type hardware, x86, GPU straight from desktop with a few nicks here or there. It's really, today and since last-gen, just a PC with locked down software.
Overall though there is no magic optimization that exists on consoles, or some exotic new version of the game that runs that much better on consoles. Instead you just get lower settings that sometimes might be too low to be even offered for PC users (unless they go through ini files, if available) - but that's just because the hardware is ultimately limited so they need to cut deeper so that it runs. We had seen that all throughout last-gen for cross-platform titles but it's clear that it's no different for what were supposed to be console-only titles like HZD, DS etc. And with so many more PS titles now being made with the PC in mind from the get-go, it's even less of a case for "console titles & optimisations".
So it's almost never the case that the PC version will be running worse than the console one, i.e. comparable hardware & same settings. Really the only case that I can think of recently was for RE-V on PC where the DRM caused issues for the game, but that got patched and wasn't really to do with the game running better on consoles as much as a muck-up on the devs side because they doubled the DRM and that created a mess. In fact I can think of more times where on consoles the games might have improper framepacing and you can't do anything about it, but on PC it's easily remedied. Nevermind all sorts of QOL fixes.

Console optimisations have died with the PS3. They're a myth.

Absolute drivel.

Really.

Spose I should add a bit.. OK you said you can make a sff pc as small as a series x but then posted a picture of one larger than a series x... Riiiight...

Then you implied that I recommended using an xbox as a neutered pc... Look back through all my posts here and see that I clearly said a pc is more capable than a console (a pc costs way more)...

Then you spout the usual waffle about pc gaming being super cheap.. You are talking to someone whose owned a gaming pc for 25 years.. Many Pc games are "cheap" mainly due to cd key websites churning out keys that were acquired through questionable means or through the use of vpns. ( I know.. This is how I bought many of mine).

You also ignore that console games if bought on disk have a resale value that negates the initial cost.

You then use crypto mining as a way to give the pc one up.. Dude you are forgetting basics.. Its called a "games console" not a "personal computer". Wtf do you actually think that you need to waffle on about fundamental differences.

Look at it as a route for people to play latest and greatest games. If you think that the pc is the best way for someone who owns neither to get into gaming then you are deluded.

 

[_Cereal_]

I've always found console exclusives sucks me in more than PC games.

Still think last of us 2 has the best animations out of any game.