Pentagon releases UFO footage

[keyser van someone]

And I imagine the same will happen here, with these investigations i.e. people will go to jail if they’re found out or be lying or at least be exposed as liars.

I doubt it. What jail term should be given to someone that thought some piece of tech was an alien spacecraft?

That engineer that thought LaMDA was sentient was an 'expert in his field'. He's just having a lie down.

 

[Thekwango]

I doubt it. What jail term should be given to someone that thought some piece of tech was an alien spacecraft?

That engineer that thought LaMDA was sentient was an 'expert in his field'. He's just having a lie down.

True. But at least they’d be exposed as liars.

 

[keyser van someone]

What does victory look like to ufologists? Alien spacecraft? An actual alien? Alien nuts and bolts? Alien DNA? Manmade stuff that can fly in the higher dimensions and pop into any time/space - built by some self-taught dude that just watched a lot of youtube physics videos?

 

[jigger]

And that’s a fair enough opinion to have but surely then the best way for that to be proven is for other folk to see Gruschs evidence?

And I imagine the same will happen here, with these investigations i.e. people will go to jail if they’re found out or be lying or at least be exposed as liars.

The whistle blower protection act is an interesting read. Particularly the legal protection and monetary sections.

 

[Thekwango]

The whistle blower protection act is an interesting read. Particularly the legal protection and monetary sections.

got a tldr linky by any chance - i'm a lazy sod

 

[Felon]

And that’s a fair enough opinion to have but surely then the best way for that to be proven is for other folk to see Gruschs evidence?

Well exactly, and this is another problem.

Grusch refuses to talk to the actual official body setup to figure out this sort of thing (All-domain anomaly resolution office).

Instead, he's created this weird charade with a bunch of politicians - where nobody ever finds out what was said, or what evidence was put forth - the perfect way to create a big hullaballo.

David Grusch UFO whistleblower claims - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Following the July 26, 2023 Congressional hearing, AARO's director Sean Kirkpatrick wrote on his LinkedIn page that, "contrary to assertions made in the hearing", Grusch "has refused to speak with AARO" so that some details said to have been given to Congress had not been provided to his office and also that the hearing was "insulting ...to the officers of the Department of Defense and Intelligence Community who chose to join AARO, many with not unreasonable anxieties about the career risks this would entail"

And that’s a fair enough opinion to have but surely then the best way for that to be proven is for other folk to see Gruschs evidence?

And I imagine the same will happen here, with these investigations i.e. people will go to jail if they’re found out or be lying or at least be exposed as liars.

This is why it's quite a good hoax.

In the case of Theranos - they broke the law by comitting fraud.

In this case - with flying saucers and aliens, it's not really as risky - if they tell a vague story which can't be disproven (because you can't disprove a vague story), the chances of them getting found out are low.

If they do, hell - it's just a UFO hoax, it's not like they're messing around with the health of cancer patients and their tests, or something that happened with Theranos, the worst that could probably happen, is that Grusch lied under oath - it's bad, many people have lied under oath and got away with slaps on wrists....

What they're doing isn't that risky.

Keep saying that as much as you like it doesn't make it true.

Ok - I'll link it ten times for you:

David Grusch UFO whistleblower claims - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Spoiler

Grusch claimed that he had conversations with unnamed officials that led him to believe that the U.S. federal government maintains a secretive UFO (or UAP) recovery program and is in possession of "non-human" spacecraft along with their "dead pilots"

Grusch claimed that he had conversations with unnamed officials that led him to believe that the U.S. federal government maintains a secretive UFO (or UAP) recovery program and is in possession of "non-human" spacecraft along with their "dead pilots"

Grusch claimed that he had conversations with unnamed officials that led him to believe that the U.S. federal government maintains a secretive UFO (or UAP) recovery program and is in possession of "non-human" spacecraft along with their "dead pilots"

Grusch claimed that he had conversations with unnamed officials that led him to believe that the U.S. federal government maintains a secretive UFO (or UAP) recovery program and is in possession of "non-human" spacecraft along with their "dead pilots"

Grusch claimed that he had conversations with unnamed officials that led him to believe that the U.S. federal government maintains a secretive UFO (or UAP) recovery program and is in possession of "non-human" spacecraft along with their "dead pilots"

Grusch claimed that he had conversations with unnamed officials that led him to believe that the U.S. federal government maintains a secretive UFO (or UAP) recovery program and is in possession of "non-human" spacecraft along with their "dead pilots"

Grusch claimed that he had conversations with unnamed officials that led him to believe that the U.S. federal government maintains a secretive UFO (or UAP) recovery program and is in possession of "non-human" spacecraft along with their "dead pilots"

Grusch claimed that he had conversations with unnamed officials that led him to believe that the U.S. federal government maintains a secretive UFO (or UAP) recovery program and is in possession of "non-human" spacecraft along with their "dead pilots"

Grusch claimed that he had conversations with unnamed officials that led him to believe that the U.S. federal government maintains a secretive UFO (or UAP) recovery program and is in possession of "non-human" spacecraft along with their "dead pilots"

Grusch claimed that he had conversations with unnamed officials that led him to believe that the U.S. federal government maintains a secretive UFO (or UAP) recovery program and is in possession of "non-human" spacecraft along with their "dead pilots"

"non-human" spacecraft along with their "dead pilots"

 

[Thekwango]

This is why it's quite a good hoax.

That’s a big ole hoax to try and pull. Obviously it’s not beyond the realms of possibility but I just don’t buy that angle. That’s not to say I buy the ‘it’s aliens’ angle either.

 

[Felon]

That’s a big ole hoax to try and pull. Obviously it’s not beyond the realms of possibility but I just don’t buy that angle. That’s not to say I buy the ‘it’s aliens’ angle either.

It's quite brazen - but it wasn't like it went from 0 to 11 in one go, it's been ramping up for years now since the videos of the bird (tic tac nonsense) and many more before that.

I said at the start, that this was a step too far - this whole thing with Grusch saying that he's seen evidence of crashed UFOs, and that the government has a secret program of recovering them, AND they have the pilots of these craft, and - humans have been killed and injured by them.

It's too far - because I think they've overplayed their hand, there's no going back from it - the claims he made were stark and profound.

The problem is now - if you look at the wider picture beyond the UFO foamers, Grusch is being ignored by most of the mainstream media (except for a couple) because nobody believes him, it's just too much - he's gone too far and said too much without offering anything up, it was a juicy story for 2 minutes, but it quickly became "yeaaah right".

 

[Pottsey]

“In this case - with flying saucers and aliens, it's not really as risky - if they tell a vague story which can't be disproven (because you can't disprove a vague story), the chances of them getting found out are low.”

But he hasn’t given a vague story he has gone into great detail and handed those details over from project names, people involved, places and times. Along with accessing vast sums of classified data and using this data to back up his claims. The chances of him getting found out if it’s made up is extremely high because it not vague like you keep pretending. All that can be disproven and that's enough to land him in jail and lose his £1million pension.

Telling a made-up story to the press is not risky. Telling a made-up story to a full ICIG investigation while accessing and using large sums of classified data and repeating that to a full SKIF committee and standing up under oath In front of Congress is not the type of thing a hoaxer who is making everything up would do. Its extremely risky all for zero benefit.

That’s the problem with your stance. The hoax story doesn’t make sense and doesn’t fit the facts that we do know.

Why would he hoax this? Just what benefit is there? If it’s a hoax why go to the ICIG? Why allow and present everything to a full SKIF committee. Why provide specific classified locations for them to take a field trip to? Don’t you think that’s extremely risky for a hoax?

Saying Project A run by People B at location C at this time and date which is access via a database containing classified data. That not vague and not the type of thing a hoaxer would do. He has already caused over 40+ people from the various departments to be interviewed. Which all seem to have backed him up which is a little odd for a hoax.

How did he fake the evidence and convince ICIG and the SKIF if it’s just a hoax?
Why did all the people that get interviewed back him up?
Why do zero people who have seen the evidence or got interviewed say it’s just a hoax? In fact they all say stuff like its real, has merit.
If its all a hoax how did the high-ranking people like Karl E. Nell Army Colonel who have top notch reputations, with nothing to gain and everything to lose get talked into joining a hoax?

You call it a hoax but what is the end game? He isn’t making any profit from it, he isn’t gaining anything from it. In fact, he is losing money as he gave up something like a £175k job to go down the whiteblower complaint.
The hoax narrative just doesn’t add up or make sense in this case. There are to many elements that seem to go against a hoax. You talk about a hoax like he somehow convinced over 100+ high ranking government officials and a large number of high ranking Intelligence officers to take part in this hoax. Many of which are trained to spot and avoid hoaxes as a core part of their Intelligence Officer based jobs.

All for nothing to gain and the real risk of jail time and loss in £million+ pension due to involving classified data and lying to Congress. Along with a £175k wage he gave up. So its clearly not about the money.

As Thekwango says its not beyond the realms of possibility but the hoax angle just doesn’t make any sense given the people involved at this stage. The further we go into this the less and less it looks like hoax. You don’t just hoax you way though a full ICIG investigation and then hoax you way through a SKIF committee. Not unless you are saying he somehow inserted fake data inside the classified system and database for them to find, the same system that are protected against fake data. But that goes against your vague story to make it safe. Plus how do you explain what must be numbering in a 100+ people now backing him up? That’s a pretty wide ranging hoax.

I just don't buy that this is 100% a hoax, that angle no longer makes any sense. You could sort of get away with it at the start but not now after the SKIF and ICIG findings along with the 40+ staff interviews. Even his own boss from the UAP department is backing him up. Why do that for a hoax?

I have not doubts some elements of the story are going be inaccurate due to over classification and over compartmentalised departments. But that's not the same as a full 100% BS hoax.

“Ok - I'll link it ten times for you:”

So that link proves me right and agrees with me. The date you say it all started is June 2023 when the Alien claims came in. The date I say it started was back in 2021 or was it 2022 when he filed the whistle-blower complaint and the ICIG investigation started well before all the Alien stuff.

“Grusch refuses to talk to the actual official body setup to figure out this sort of thing (All-domain anomaly resolution office).”

You mean the All-domain Anomaly Resolution Office that was impossible to contact with no phone number, no email, no address, no list of who works there. Grusch claims he tried to contact them but was unable to do which appears to be true based on the fact there are zero ways to contact them. The All-domain anomaly resolution office had failed to get a working website and failed to get a reporting system in place missing the deadlines set by Congress. They have one now, but not at the time Kirkpatrick was in charge who incidentally has been pushed out of the job and no longer works there.

This is the same All-domain Anomaly Resolution Office that promised they would investigate and publish a full timeline of the Grusch events with a full history document in Q4 last year. We are now in 2024 with no signs of this document. There is a reason why Kirkpatrick was forced out and left. He wasnt doing the job very well. I used to like him but have gone off him after his recent rants and poor performance.

 

[Thekwango]

It's quite brazen - but it wasn't like it went from 0 to 11 in one go, it's been ramping up for years now since the videos of the bird (tic tac nonsense) and many more before that.

So you reckon it’s part of one long con?

 

[Felon]

But he hasn’t given a vague story he has gone into great detail and handed those details over from project names, people involved, places and times.

Prove it.

Where’s the evidence?

(Saying that somebody has said some words behind closed doors that nobody else, knows anything about, counts)

So you reckon it’s part of one long con?

Yes, I can’t prove it (yet) I just think it’s the most reasonable and likely explanation.

One of the things I find hilarious, is that his account actually reads like every cheap sci-fi movie ever.

“The US government, retrieving crashed UFOs in secret, reverse engineering the technology and capturing the alien pilots”

That plot - is literally one of the main plots in the first few seasons of the original x-files, literally - go watch it if you don’t believe me.

I just find it a bit cheap, that this most incredible account, contains nothing we haven’t seen or heard of before from standard sci-fi movies and novels.

I can’t take it seriously, anybody could just make that up, there’s nothing to differentiate it or elevate it from anything we haven’t seen before.

 

[Scrutinize]

Prove it.

Where’s the evidence?

Prove what and evidence of what @Screeeech? Your tomes of back and forth with @Pottsey and @Thekwango has neither proven nor disproven anything so far.

What you have empirically shown is that you have limited clarity around the horizon of the amplitude of spectrum on how the US process is working, both through their congressional and classification of public funded security services.

In short you know nothing and asking others to prove you know nothing is a misnomer; since by repeatedly asking others to prove you know nothing by demonstrating you know nothing because you keep asking others to prove anything is a circular argument.

So what do you actually want to know?

 

[SexyGreyFox]

Prove what and evidence of what @Screeeech? Your tomes of back and forth with @Pottsey and @Thekwango has neither proven nor disproven anything so far.

Well he can't prove The Tooth Fairy and Flying Spaghetti Monster doesn't exist but I know what's more likely.

 

[Felon]

Prove what and evidence of what @Screeeech?

They (People like Pottsey) make fantastic claims of UFOs and this whole silly story - therefore the onus is on them to provide evidence of that claim, not on me to disprove it.

 

[Scrutinize]

They (People like Pottsey) make fantastic claims of UFOs and this whole silly story - therefore the onus is on them to provide evidence of that claim, not on me to disprove it.

But that's not the conversation, nor is it the direction of the bipartisan congressional process and legislation.

Thank you for explaining the rationale behind your circular conjecture. Hopefully you can appreciate that you are simply asking others to prove that you aren't in the same conversation.

If you can tangibly demonstrate you are on the same playing field here, it may be possible to respond with a meaningful discussion.

 

[Felon]

But that's not the conversation, nor is it the direction of the bipartisan congressional process and legislation.

What do you mean by this? I don't really understand the last part.

 

[Scrutinize]

What do you mean by this? I don't really understand the last part.

That's ok, it's evident you didn't have clarity hence why empirically you're having a different conversation with everyone.

Best analogy I can offer.

The, conversation in this thread is about a tin of baked beans and for 400g some are saying there will be 1000 beans inside and other saying 1001. The tin isn't open but we know it weighs 400g and contains baked beans.

You're asking the people having the conversation about the beans to prove that you're carrot is actually a cabbage.

 

[Pottsey]

“Prove it.
Where’s the evidence?
(Saying that somebody has said some words behind closed doors that nobody else, knows anything about, counts)

I have done what I can and given you the statements made to the press by individuals on the SKIF Committee. I have given you direct quotes you don’t even have to click links for. I have given you footage of a news channels asking the Committee questions.
I even gave you a link showing they are arranging a field trip to the location, project and names of the people involved.

The collection of evidence provided to you proves it’s not a vague story. The field trip proves a location and SAP details was handed over. You don’t just arrange a field trip because some random guy with no creditably is talking BS and says go here. Evidence has to be provided for them to consider such a major field trip.
A Haxoer doesn’t get though a ICIG via just sitting there telling a vague story without evidence. A Haxoer doesn’t get though a SKIF by sitting there without evidence only telling a vague story. A hoxoer doesn’t have all his work department agreeing with him.

A hoax just doesn't make any sense. How do you explain away all the major problems with the hoax narrative?

“I can’t take it seriously, anybody could just make that up, there’s nothing to differentiate it or elevate it from anything we haven’t seen before.”

Fair enough if you cannot take it seriously. This will move on without you. But to say its nothing to differentiate it or elevate it from anything we haven’t seen before is 100% false. This is not remotely like anything else that has happened. If you don’t see the difference that’s your problem. Everyone else can see the difference and it a major difference. Like the SKIF Committee said it’s not going away, its not a joke, its serious. We have gone well, well past the point of anything seen before.

What do you mean by this? I don't really understand the last part.

It means you are misconstruing what is being said by me and the direction the official investigation is taking this. I said its not Aliens, the SKIF committee said it’s not about little green men and not about aliens.
None of us are making fantastic claims on aliens that is not the part we are concerned with nor the part we are saying is real. This has been explained so many times. You don’t seem to be following or understanding what is happening or going off. Then you write the entire thing off as a hoax.

 

[Scrutinize]

You don’t seem to be following or understanding what is happening or going off.

@Pottsey all Screeeech is asking you to prove, as per Screeeech's answers on the previous page in response to me, is that Screeeech doesn't know anything; which their own questions and answers have both asked and proven.

So you have nothing left to structure in discussion as the understanding or lack of, is about the lack of knowledge of understanding, not the actuality around the detail of the understand.

 

[Felon]

That's ok, it's evident you didn't have clarity hence why empirically you're having a different conversation with everyone.

Why are you saying this, it's nonsense?

People are making two explicit claims,

1 - These claims are real and are happening.

2 - The evidence that it's there, is people behind closed doors having secret meetings.

I'm saying:

1 - I don't think it is happening (because it's nonsense)

2 - People talking behind closed doors, doesn't count as evidence.

The, conversation in this thread is about a tin of baked beans and for 400g some are saying there will be 1000 beans inside and other saying 1001. The tin isn't open but we know it weighs 400g and contains baked beans.

Nonsense,

The problem with your analogy, is that it assumes that something is known (the tin of baked beans is 400g)

In this scenario of aliens and flying saucers, literally nothing is known - it's all conjecture, so your analogy doesn't work and doesn't apply.

I have done what I can and given you the statements made to the press by individuals on the SKIF Committee.

And it amounts to no supporting evidence whatsoever, of anything.