Pentagon releases UFO footage

I believe there were a number of objects. At one point there was reference to a fleet.
I'm not disputing that.

What I'm calling out Fravor on is the supposed visual identification of this object - unless he has the visual acuity of a peregrine falcon, then he didn't "see" anything.
Even if he did see something he still has no frame of reference to estimate relative size or speed - if the object was 40 ft long then it could not have been at sea level, if the object was that low then it had to be much, much larger.

And, assuming that Fravor saw what he saw and wasn't mistaken on anything, he still implied that the object was actively jamming radar equipment - if it has technology to do that then isn't it also reasonable to speculate that this UFO could also interfere with equipment that determines size, position, velocity and acceleration?

Don't forget, he's already asserted that this object could not have been created by current technology so basically anything goes with regards to its capabilities.
 
Don't forget, he's already asserted that this object could not have been created by current technology so basically anything goes with regards to its capabilities.

And therein lays the problem; extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence, and there is zero evidence that backs up literally anything, that Fravor says.

As a skeptic, I just want to see something which actually supports or helps to confirm some of these reports, but there never is anything, ever.
 
And therein lays the problem; extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence, and there is zero evidence that backs up literally anything, that Fravor says.

As a skeptic, I just want to see something which actually supports or helps to confirm some of these reports, but there never is anything, ever.
Exactly.

We could simply ask Fravor what level of security clearance he has for top secret Chinese or Russian aviation technologies - his answer will be "none".
And on that basis he cannot rule out current aviation technology, which he has.
 
It's funny as well, the moment you actually start to ask questions about these sorts of claims, you get accused of being a killjoy or ruining the fun, or whatever.

For me, the fun is in challenging the claims.
 
I think whatever the origin of these UFO's I'm more likely to believe the Bob Lazar explanation that places like area 51 had found these craft and were test flying them.

He's said in numerous interviews how they used to test them on a certain day of the week next to a road that wouldn't get busy on that day. To prove this he took people to a place near to the area so they could see the lights zooming around all over the place. Apparently this footage is/was on youtube. It was like clockwork, same day, same place.

When the stealth fighter came out many people at the time thought that came from unknown technology. Also when testing flight data came out it matched a lot of reports of UFO's. So people were seeing the stealth fighter in test flight and thought it was a UFO.

So I guess we have to ask, why as the US government come out to prove the footage is genuine. Is this a sign to other countries that they have now successfully test piloted these craft, made their own, and are prepared to use them against foreign nations?
 
So I guess we have to ask, why as the US government come out to prove the footage is genuine. Is this a sign to other countries that they have now successfully test piloted these craft, made their own, and are prepared to use them against foreign nations?

Well, that doesn't add up - because the footage in question (that the US military said was genuine), doesn't show anything untoward happening, it merely shows an unknown object, acting in a rather benign fashion.
 
Correct, it's not obviously anything. But it's obviously not extra-terrestrials.
Why so?

I never claimed any facts, merely which is more likely - a crazy account of a craft moving in ways which defies all known laws of physics, without any evidence. OR someone saw something a bit weird and got confused and we end up where we are now.
How does it defy physics?
Life is obviously quite rare, you need to have the Goldilocks zone and the right conditions it seems.
The reason I don't believe we have been visited is as follows. The main issue being distance.
Infinity means everything is possible.


I have a theory they have been extracting something from our planet for a long, long time. It could be something as simple as a compound within our waters, or minerals under the surface. I wonder if they catch the covid by opening a window would they then destroy their entire race when they return.
 
Pretty much exactly how I feel. Again I find it extremely interesting and would argue that it is potentially very important, but it does pose more questions than it answers. Like you though I don’t really care about proving the seemingly unprovable to those that find it simply unbelievable.

Maybe they should be asking these questions to the Pentagon or possibly those that said they saw what they saw. I’m not sure if we are capable of answering some of these questions.

Maybe. It becomes a paronia and obsession to most.
 
[QUOTE

As a skeptic, I just want to see something which actually supports or helps to confirm some of these reports, but there never is anything, ever.[/QUOTE]

So do the believers. Problem is, when there does appear to be something anomolus the evidence is taken away and more often than not pressure is often placed on military people to keep quiet in a number of various ways.
 
All they are saying is the footage is genuine, it is a massive step to then go on and turn it into something else.

That's true Dave. It's interesting in that they've done it though. Perhaps they've decided to move forward with their position given the fact our own science is moving towards the discovery of some kind of life within the near future.
 
How does it defy physics?

Erm. Because if the object behaved in the ways David Fravor says it behaved, to use his own words; 'disappeared' it wouldn't be conforming to the known laws.

So do the believers. Problem is, when there does appear to be something anomolus the evidence is taken away and more often than not pressure is often placed on military people to keep quiet in a number of various ways.

Thing is though, the people who run governments are notoriously incompetent, stupid, easily fooled and just generally of very poor quality. There's literally zero chance, that they could ever keep something like a UFO or alien technology secret, if they had it.

Imagine if the UK government captured a flying saucer and tried to cover it up;
  1. Group-4 would be in charge of security, and the government would mess up their pay, and nobody would turn up - little green men running wild.
  2. The media would find something almost immediately, government officials can't even conceal an affair, or basic tax fraud - let alone a flying saucer.
  3. Money - if anyone had for example - an anti-gravity machine, it would be worth more money than we could ever print, it would be leaked sooner or later.
The list goes on, but you can imagine the problems involved - when you start to apply the reality of government competence, into the realms of containing alien tech :D
 
Because they could not reach us without faster than light travel, which is impossible.
Is it impossible or is it impossible given our current level of understanding?

A mk10 jet not too long ago would have been impossible given the current level of understanding.

Electricity would have been impossible before it was made possible. So on and so on.

I get why people have trouble understanding what is being said but that does not mean we have to shut down any notion of it purely because in doesn’t seem possible.

We quite clearly do not understand this so its most likely better to say we do not know, rather than it being a conspiracy.
 
Is it impossible or is it impossible given our current level of understanding?

It is impossible due to the limits imposed by known laws of physics.

The closest exoplanet in the conservative habitable zone is Proxima Centauri b. It's just over 4 years away, and uninhabitable, but if we pretend it's full of high tech aliens they would take more than 4 years to reach us even if they could travel at the speed of light. Twice the speed of light would still leave them with a 2 year journey.

The next closest exoplanet in the conservative habitable zone is Luyten b (potentially habitable to micro-organisms) at just over 12 light years. And so on, and so forth. Aliens would need FTL travel, and some way of surviving years of space travel in order to reach us without dying along the way. That's not going to happen.

A mk10 jet not too long ago would have been impossible given the current level of understanding.

Electricity would have been impossible before it was made possible. So on and so on.

Neither of those examples involve breaking the laws of physics, and electricity already existed before we had the technology to generate it ourselves.
 
I get why people have trouble understanding what is being said but that does not mean we have to shut down any notion of it purely because in doesn’t seem possible.

Firstly, I don't think anyone is trying to shut down something because it doesn't seem possible. People are making very bold claims, going on shows with millions of views, and telling people that they've seen things which defy the known laws, things which are totally incredible, without providing any evidence. Therefore it should be expected that people immediately cast doubt - because that's the right thing to do.

The moment people turn up and start making incredible claims, and people just 'accept' by default that they're telling the truth and we don't ask for evidence, or ask serious questions and scrutinise - it sets a very dangerous precedence, because people start believing in any old nonsense.

We quite clearly do not understand this so its most likely better to say we do not know, rather than it being a conspiracy.

But this is the big pitfall, just because we can't prove or disprove to a degree of 100% whether something is true or false, somehow means that there's an almost equal possibility of it actually being true, therefore we mustn't rule it out, because we can't prove it's false.

In actual fact, you don't need to prove it as being false to say that it's astronomically unlikely to be true - because that's the truth, it's so unlikely, that it practically can be ruled out, it doesn't have to be proven to be false. We do however, have to reserve in the back of the mind, a place where in future - a wider range of evidence may come in that makes it far more possible, but only until that happens.

EG; Despite the sketchy reports from all over the place, that faith healing works, I don't have to waste time proving that it doesn't work, I just rule it out by default - because it's nonsense, and that's all that needs to be said.
 
Why so?


How does it defy physics?

Infinity means everything is possible.


I have a theory they have been extracting something from our planet for a long, long time. It could be something as simple as a compound within our waters, or minerals under the surface. I wonder if they catch the covid by opening a window would they then destroy their entire race when they return.

Infinity still has speed limitations, if there is nothing for 20k light years, whenever they decide to start a journey, we not seeing them for another 20k years.
 
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