Pentagon releases UFO footage

I don't know why you think it's a given that just because there are a load more rocks floating around in space that some will have intelligent life on them.
The ingredients to make the cake of intelligent life in the correct order, in the correct amounts, in the correct timescale is likely to never happen again.
We arrogant humans only exist because of millions of things happening in the right order, even after the death of the dinosaurs there would have been millions of different things happening that eventually made the so called missing link where we went one way and apes went the other.
Even at that point so many things occurred where we got to us debating on a forum and you think all this could happen again in the same order.


Who's to say that the series of events for life to happen on this planet is the only "formula" for it to happen elsewhere? You talk like how life appeared on earth is the only possible way it could ever happen, when the fact is we simply don't know if that's the case or not.

If there's tens of billions of planets pretty locally (and trillions elsewhere) who's to say that the "ingredients" for life couldn't all be present on a single planet and not require the series of events that cause it to happen on earth? Earth most likely isn't some blueprint for life that must be adhered to across the universe, its simply how it happened on this particular planet.
 
By listening to the experts on the subject and not a randomer on You Tube.
hasn't it supposed to have happened on this planet multiple times? in multiple places in conditions life was never thought possible to exist in.
or do you mean intelligent as in can take an IQ test and be humanoid?
 
hasn't it supposed to have happened on this planet multiple times?

Some aspects of evolution have happened multiple times, but that's not the same as the start of life on Earth. That's still an unknown, but there's no evidence of it happening multiple times. Or even twice. And at least one of the most important stages of evolution (eukyrotic cells) appears to have happened only once on Earth, possibly as a spectacularly bizarre form of symbiosis between prokyrotic cells. Even if life started more than once on Earth, that might not mean life started more than once. It's possible life started somewhere else. It's possible that extremely simple lifeforms can be hardy enough to survive long journeys through space. Maybe life started somewhere else and arrived on Earth in a meteorite. Maybe that happened more than once. Or maybe not. Humans are barely beginning to approach the stage of having some idea of how much we don't know about the subject.

in multiple places in conditions life was never thought possible to exist in.

Often conditions which might well more closely resemble the conditions in which the earliest life on Earth existed. That's an unexpected path increased knowledge of the subject has gone down recently. The environmental conditions around volcanic vents on the ocean floor might be far closer to the conditions in which the earliest life on Earth existed than the environmental conditions in which humans live. Maybe we're the true extremophiles.

or do you mean intelligent as in can take an IQ test and be humanoid?

Good question. Life and intelligent life are completely different kettles of fish. Although I wouldn't include "humanoid". My guess is that intelligent and tool-using animals would often have at least a vaguely humanoid form (because it's a great fit for an intelligent tool-using species) but I would still consider the two to be seperate things. If a hypothetical lifeform from somewhere else had an intelligence at least roughly equal to humans I'd call them a person regardless of their physical form. Or lack of physical form. I'd have no objection to classing an incorporeal entity as a person.

Why? You're talking as if it's a scientific fact that humans will cease to exist, we'll probably be on Mars by the end of this century

We're not aware of any species that has existed forever. Current thinking is that the universe itself won't exist for ever. Having tenuous artifical bases for a handful of people buried underground on Mars and not self-supporting and wholly dependent on the incessant perfect functioning of equipment would be a big step for humanity but it would mean diddly squat in terms of long term survival.

Also, we don't have the 5 billion years mentioned. It'll be about 5 billion years before Sol burns out (or nearly so), but the inner planets will be uninhabitable (or completely destroyed) long before then. Off the top of my head, I think the expected timeline is that Earth will be pretty well cooked in about 1 billion years and destroyed in about 1.5 billion years. But that's a minor point, really. If the far descendents of humanity aren't interstellar in 1 billion years they probably wouldn't have been in 5 billion years. If humanity still exists in a billion years I doubt if it would even be recognisable to us today. We're already very close to being able to evolve ourselves on demand. At this rate we'll probably be there within 1000 years, let alone 1,000,000,000 years. We're also not completely immune to natural evolution. Not yet, anyway. Given the rate of change in knowledge and technology in the history of humanity or even in the last couple of centuries, who the hell knows what humans will be capable of in a million years let alone a billion. Maybe our far descendents will make their own stars and planets. Or their own universe. Or transcend this plane of existence. Or things we don't even have words for. Or just die out, like so many other species have done on Earth already.
 
If humanity still exists in a billion years I doubt if it would even be recognisable to us today.

Amazing fact on Guy Martin's Lancaster Bomber the other day, in 1943 the average height of a British man was 5ft 6ins and that's why they could fit in different parts of the bomber.
Today they would have to pick dwarfs like me and that's only 75 years ago.
 
Amazing fact on Guy Martin's Lancaster Bomber the other day, in 1943 the average height of a British man was 5ft 6ins and that's why they could fit in different parts of the bomber.
Today they would have to pick dwarfs like me and that's only 75 years ago.

Average height is more about hard times, though. The average height in Britain was lowest in the 19th century. 1000 years ago it wasn't much lower than it is today and amongst wealthier people back then it was much the same as it is today. Without some form of selection pressure I doubt if it will change much in the future unless society collapses and it goes down again.
 
The height of floors and doors on mediaeval castles suggests people were a good deal shorter 1000 years ago, but perhaps I've misunderstood. Are there any studies/data plots anywhere to show how it's changed with time? It would be interesting to see mapped out so to speak
 
Good question. Life and intelligent life are completely different kettles of fish. Although I wouldn't include "humanoid". My guess is that intelligent and tool-using animals would often have at least a vaguely humanoid form (because it's a great fit for an intelligent tool-using species) but I would still consider the two to be seperate things. If a hypothetical lifeform from somewhere else had an intelligence at least roughly equal to humans I'd call them a person regardless of their physical form. Or lack of physical form. I'd have no objection to classing an incorporeal entity as a person.

Strange thing to say. I watched programs where for example rooks (birds) done some clever things as have some other animals where they use 'tools' to circumvent puzzles. People with pets will vouch how smart they can explore life's challenges, so while they may not be able to do algebra or order a pint at the pub you certainly don't have to "at least" have a "vaguely humanoid form" at all (to meet your criteria).
 
The height of floors and doors on mediaeval castles suggests people were a good deal shorter 1000 years ago, but perhaps I've misunderstood. Are there any studies/data plots anywhere to show how it's changed with time? It would be interesting to see mapped out so to speak

Yes, there are studies (in various countries). They're based on human remains that have been dug up. Not a huge number but a non-trivial amount. Thousands from a variety of sources. Enough to be a meaningful sample size. Skeleton size gives a good indication of a person's height when they were alive. It's evidence for height that's more direct than buildings. It's not perfect, but it's probably fine for comparative sizing as the same method is used for people alive today and it has an extremely strong correlation with height. Especially for men. I've no idea why the correlation is closer in men than in women. The average for thousands would be an even better correlation as it would reduce the effect of individual variation.

For example: "Heights across the last 2000 years in England" by Dr Gregori Galofré-Vilà, Dr Andrew Hinde and Dr Aravinda Guntupalli.

The average height of men in England ~1000 years ago was 173cm. Today it's 176cm. A significant difference in some ways, but not one you'd really notice. Not "a good deal shorter".

A quickly accessible article on a larger scale study of northern Europe is here:

https://news.osu.edu/men-from-early-middle-ages-were-nearly-as-tall-as-modern-people/

"Men living during the early Middle Ages (the ninth to 11th centuries) were several centimeters taller than men who lived hundreds of years later, on the eve of the Industrial Revolution," said Richard Steckel, a professor of economics at Ohio State University and the author of a new study that looks at changes in average heights during the last millennium.
[..]
Steckel analyzed height data from thousands of skeletons excavated from burial sites in northern Europe and dating from the ninth to the 19th centuries. Average height declined slightly during the 12th through 16th centuries, and hit an all-time low during the 17th and 18th centuries.
[..]
"Average height is a good way to measure the availability and consumption of basic necessities such as food, clothing, shelter, medical care and exposure to disease," Steckel said. "Height is also sensitive to the degree of inequality between populations."

As far as I know, the low point for average height in England was a bit later because of London. Abysmal living conditions and an unusually high proportion of the country's population living there was enough to drag down the overall national average height.
 
Strange thing to say. I watched programs where for example rooks (birds) done some clever things as have some other animals where they use 'tools' to circumvent puzzles. People with pets will vouch how smart they can explore life's challenges, so while they may not be able to do algebra or order a pint at the pub you certainly don't have to "at least" have a "vaguely humanoid form" at all (to meet your criteria).

Not my criteria. You picked words out of sequence and changed the emphasis (in your quote of my text, making it look like it was my emphasis), so it's no wonder you came up with a different criteria. You even managed to change "often have at least a vaguely humanoid form" to a requirement to have a vaguely humanoid form. There's a huge difference between "often have at least a vaguely humanoid form" (which was what I wrote) and "at least have a vaguely humanoid form" (which is what you wrongly claimed I wrote).

It's true that some other animals sometimes make crude use of simple found tools. That's a long way from human levels of tool use. It's a long way from the tool use of pre-human hominids. Even homo habilis (which some people think shouldn't even be in the homo genus at all!) had far more advanced tool use than any non-human animals alive today because homo habilis made tools. Being able to pick up a stick and poke something is not what I'd consider enough to categorise an animal as intelligent and tool using. An extremely limited degree of intelligence and tool use isn't enough to warrant categorising them that way IMO.

It's also true that pet owners often have a hugely inflated idea of how intelligent their pets are, but that's not reality. Even in that context, they're comparing their pets with other non-human animals. A person would have to be rather deluded to believe a cat or dog or hamster or whatever is as intelligent as a human.

For a species that uses tools enough for that behaviour to be a defining trait:

It's useful to have limbs adapted to be better for manipulating objects. That would be an evolutionary selection pressure - if tool use is important enough, individuals better able to use tools would have an increased chance of success.
It's useful to have an upright stance with the manipulating limbs well clear of the ground. That would also be better for tool use.
It's often useful to have eyes as high up as practically possible. As well as being better for tool use by providing more comfortable viewing angles for whatever the manipulation limbs are handling, it also provides a longer viewing distance and that's advantageous when it comes to not being eaten by a predator.
It's useful to have visual processing close to the eyes in order to reduce lag caused by signal transmission from eyes to visual processing. So brain close to eyes.
It's useful to have the brain protected as much as possible. So head around the brain. That also provides good mounting points for eyes, protected as much as possible. Good mounting points for some other sensory organs too.


So mobility limbs at the bottom, manipulation limbs further up, head at the top and body in between all those parts. It's a useful layout, especially for a species that makes extensive use of tools. Note that I did not say that it was a requirement. I said that it was my guess that it would often be the case. An example of convergent evolution.

EDIT: For land animals. It would be different for aquatic or avian intelligent tool-using species.
 
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Amazing fact on Guy Martin's Lancaster Bomber the other day, in 1943 the average height of a British man was 5ft 6ins and that's why they could fit in different parts of the bomber.
Today they would have to pick dwarfs like me and that's only 75 years ago.

I remember when I went to the Colosseum in Rome in 2004, was shocked how small it was, mentioned this to one of the guides who promptly told me people were a lot smaller back then.
 
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