Piracy and sales

[Nevakonaza]

Piracy will always be around.

I think a major part in pirate downloads for games is because of the lack of demos for people to try the game before buying it,So what do they do..go download it illegally.

Now players pre-order thousands of copies before it's even launched, sometimes while a game is still in pre-alpha (early access)

Of course though most do it purely because they want it for free,Which is wrong imo,A lot of these games companies do put in a TON of work and deserve every penny they charge for the game.

few games come to mind.

GTA Series
Uncharted Series

 

[CHokKA]

Steam does offer refunds.

Where did I say they didn't? I said that Steam offered refunds for NMS, but that two hours of play wasn't nearly enough to evaluate the game. They then allegedly offered refunds after this but then stopped this after a few hours or something like that.

 

[Rezident]

Still have never pirated a game. I am happy to support the game development industry.

But expect me to scream like a castrated bullock if performance is poor. I'm looking at you Deus Ex and your 'recommended' settings, I still haven't forgotten about you GTA IV . . . don't get me started.

 

[chickadee]

Yes I can. Three proofs:

1. I, myself, pre-ordered a game for full price. I fully intended to buy the game but was impatient and heard an early copy had been leaked, so I acquired a cracked copy from a torrent website. I then decided I didn't like the game after playing it and cancelled my pre-order.

2. My friend Dave loves Minecraft. He plays it every week. I asked him why he doesn't buy this game, that he could afford easily and he tells me it's because it is available online for free.

3. I'm sure we're not the only two people to have lost a developer a sale because of our own (not their) actions.

That's just personal anecdotal evidence and is useless.

The major problem with these types of questions/threads is that the law says its illegal and wrong but on the other hand the games industry is a pile of steaming crap at the moment.

I personally hate piracy and very rarely do it anymore but I think it does help even though you cant measure it. I wonder how many of us here used to pirate games when we were kids and now we are grown up and have the funds have a crazy and bloated steam library.

Now if that childhood piracy spree didn't happen would that still be the case? again we will never know but personally for me its true, I had no funds as a kid and pirated nearly everything which got me hooked on gaming, now I have a very large steam library and even purchased a lot of the pirated games I got when I was a kid as I wanted to replay them/support the dev.

I don't disagree its wrong and illegal but its not as simple as saying "it hurts the industry" as we cant measure that.

The industry as a whole is currently screwed up IMO, when a game like Tomb Raider sold 3,400,000 copies and was classed a failure you know the budgets and expectations have risen to silly heights and you cant blame that on piracy alone.

 

[HangTime]

Getting older and the accompanied lack of free time is the single largest contributer to me stopping game piracy altogether. My back catalogue is so large that most games are old and deeply discounted by the time I get to them.

There are a few exceptions that will get my day 1 payment, basically CDPR and the Mass Effect franchise.

Not only that but other factors have accompanied getting older:
-Probably you have more money now
-Decent official digital distribution channels like Steam etc (compared to say 10-15 years ago where you couldn't easily get hold of stuff legally - same goes for films etc)
-Fewer games being available prior to release, e.g. I think Doom 3 got pirated about a week before it went on sale in Europe. So for your "day 1 payment" it would actually be "day -7 non payment". I don't think that is happening so much any more.

 

[HangTime]

do you remember a time when it was said that when games go digital they would be cheaper because they could cut out the middle men. Well that never happened did it.

Games are cheaper in my experience with the exception of close to release date. Older games get heavily discounted because the marginal cost is so low. It's not like the days where stock of old games could get exhausted.

Do you remember a time when you got a game and it was the complete thing with all content, no micro transactions, no season pass, games now costing over £100 for extra's is also becoming all the norm

I remember a time when you bought a flawed game and it was difficult to patch it (relying on magazine cover disks), when you bought a game, completed it and was left wanting more but nothing was available. I remember a time when a developer releasing an expansion pack was viewed as a good thing rather than a suggestion that the original product was substandard.

Do you remember playing new games only also, non of this lets tart up the graphics and release again and again on new systems.

Yes, and that's what I still do. If I've completed a game then I'll probably buy something different rather than a remaster. But if it's a game I never played the original of then it is good because it lets me play what should in theory be a better version with fewer quirks.

Also why do i have to pay for 1 game on one system yet if i want it on another i have to pay again

Because they are different products, because that's how it has always been, because that's probably how the licensing model works. There are some exceptions like XB/W10 but that's probably because both platforms are owned by Microsoft.

 

[davewhite04]

Where did I say they didn't? I said that Steam offered refunds for NMS, but that two hours of play wasn't nearly enough to evaluate the game. They then allegedly offered refunds after this but then stopped this after a few hours or something like that.

I agree. Refund timers should be set by the publishers depending on the game. For example, I completed a game yesterday called "The Bunker" in under 2 hours. Which is a joke for a £15 game, which is basically a very poor movie where you interact on a very limited basis.

 

[davewhite04]

Still have never pirated a game. I am happy to support the game development industry.

But expect me to scream like a castrated bullock if performance is poor. I'm looking at you Deus Ex and your 'recommended' settings, I still haven't forgotten about you GTA IV . . . don't get me started.

I think online game review sites and mags are heavily in favour of reviewing games on consoles. Oh do I miss PC Zone.

 

[davewhite04]

I remember a time when you bought a flawed game and it was difficult to patch it (relying on magazine cover disks), when you bought a game, completed it and was left wanting more but nothing was available. I remember a time when a developer releasing an expansion pack was viewed as a good thing rather than a suggestion that the original product was substandard.

Witcher 3 DLC is viewed as a good thing, exceptional expansions. However, buying a car pack, or some virtual football cards IS over the top, and those publishers should be ashamed.

 

[Vonhelmet]

Witcher 3 DLC is viewed as a good thing, exceptional expansions. However, buying a car pack, or some virtual football cards IS over the top, and those publishers should be ashamed.

Why? Making the car models is really hard work, for one thing. For another, if the market will bear it, and people will buy it, then they will make it. If you don't want the cars, don't pay for them. That's your choice.

 

[davewhite04]

Why? Making the car models is really hard work, for one thing. For another, if the market will bear it, and people will buy it, then they will make it. If you don't want the cars, don't pay for them. That's your choice.

If you notice, these cars are already in the download in most caes(thinking consoles), you're basically paying to "unlock" them in a product you've already paid £30/£40/£50 for.

 

[Haggisman]

While I'm loathe to continue down a pointless semantics discussion....pirating a game you would otherwise have bought is depriving the developer of a sale.

The bold part is important there. And its not just semantics, a key part of the definition of theft is the intention to permanently deprive. Just like "borrowing" your mum's car without her permission is TWOC, not theft. If you're going to twist the definition of a word to make it fit where it doesn't, then why stop at "theft"? You might as well call piracy "keyrape" or "game holocaust"

People like to get up in arms about the use of the words 'stealing' and 'theft', because they are just plain wrong.

Fixed

What are people even on about. Haggisman you're going to have to explain that because I don't see your point.

If I decide to copy that piece of art by putting a glass of water on a shelf, I'm depriving that artist of a sale of their piece of art. Arguably I'm also reducing the value of the art since it's no longer unique.

Yes I can. Three proofs:

1. I, myself, pre-ordered a game for full price. I fully intended to buy the game but was impatient and heard an early copy had been leaked, so I acquired a cracked copy from a torrent website. I then decided I didn't like the game after playing it and cancelled my pre-order.

2. My friend Dave loves Minecraft. He plays it every week. I asked him why he doesn't buy this game, that he could afford easily and he tells me it's because it is available online for free.

If personal anecdotes are all the "proof" required, then here's some "evidence" that piracy actually helps sales.

1: When Minecraft first came out, my brothers were playing it. We used a "hack" to have 2 PCs logged on the same account so we could play on a local server together. Based on how much fun I had with that pirated copy, o decided to buy it, I wouldn't have otherwise.

2: My housemates and I had a pirate copy of Supreme Commander FA that we would play on LAN. We decided we wanted to play online so we bought 3 copies - wouldn't have happened if we hadn't gotten hooked playing that pirate copy.

So there we go, conclusive proof that piracy is good for sales!

 

[Vonhelmet]

If you notice, these cars are already in the download in most caes(thinking consoles), you're basically paying to "unlock" them in a product you've already paid £30/£40/£50 for.

Oh, OK, that end of things. Yes, that's not on. But DLC of actual genuinely new car packs is a different thing.

 

[Futures]

Guys I've just looked into it, and turns out Denuvo has not impact on the piracy & sales problem.
And we can stop caring about it, nothing we can do about it.

I don't think China or Russia are gonna listen to us if we try and explain the piracy & sales problem to them.

We got our own problems to deal with first before we start saving the world wide piracy problem. Dunno why these publishers come crying to us, like we're miracle workers.

Jeez do I go bugging them when I have problems in work? No

Publishers, sort your own **** out ffs.

 

[varkanoid]

How about this example. If I buy the Civ 5 DLC on Steam it comes to £78. If I go to a key site buy the Civ 5 game AND all the DLC it cost me £5.34.

Excellent for me but surely thats hurting the games industry more than piracy. I bought a legit key for the fraction of the cost of the same on Steam.

 

[itchy]

I always pirate games and always will do.

Demos were a good way to judge a game but even then, sometimes they would demo the good levels and leave the mediocre levels for the full game.

When I buy a car I get a test drive, if I don't like it I don't buy it.

Don't give me this steam clap trap money back after 2 hours play time, depending on game some might need 4 hours or longer.

I pirate a game and like it, you get my money if I don't? They lose nothing as I would not have purchased it in the first place.

Now am not all roses and nice, in my Amiga days I pirated like a trooper why?
Because in my commodore 64 days I purchased every interesting game I could get my hands on and got stung real bad.

Examples....

Little computer people on cassette.
Gunship on cassette.

Most magazine reviews were disk based and as I was from a poor family we could not afford another £200. (The disk drive was the same price as the C64)

I played by the rules got burnt so I play my way now.

 

[davewhite04]

How about this example. If I buy the Civ 5 DLC on Steam it comes to £78. If I go to a key site buy the Civ 5 game AND all the DLC it cost me £5.34.

Excellent for me but surely thats hurting the games industry more than piracy. I bought a legit key for the fraction of the cost of the same on Steam.

Yep, Valve are screwing the developers more than any kid who can't afford all the games they want to try/play.

EDIT: Oh yes, they're screwing us too, nearly forgot.

 

[TheVoice]

do you remember a time when it was said that when games go digital they would be cheaper because they could cut out the middle men. Well that never happened did it.

Of course it didn't, it was purely wishful thinking. That said, the prices you see in Steam sales etc are almost entirely as a result of digital distribution and no doubt help keep older games relevant for longer. It simply wouldn't be worth a publisher's time and investment to print discs for a game just to sell it at retail for £3.49.

 

[Jarrastafari]

I was asked...

You can't PROVE that a pirated game has resulted in a lost sale.

I beleive an anecdote based in the truth is all that is required to prove the existance of a lost sale. Yes, it can also sell games but there may be no way to ever truly tell either way. I'm going to continue to assume as I mentioned at the start that people who take what they shouldn't ("TWOC'cers" ) are unlikely to return to pay for it.

Obviously everyone is set in their ways and piracy (whose original definition itself is probably more inaccurate than saying theft) will continue to exist while people see it as socially acceptable. Though they still won't be selling their torrents outside the police station anytime soon to back up their wholesomely sacred right to copyright infringment.

A videogame takes a bit more energy to create than putting a glass of water on a shelf. You could copy his piece, but it wouldn't be a manifestation of your human spirit. Also, your comparison is based on the assumption that videogames are simply art.

 

[MissChief]

Why do you always post in green text? It's annoying and not required.