Platypus' Beginners Guide to Running

[Martynt74]

Yes, I agree that 2000 miles is a serious amount. One of the guys in the club stupidly set 2024 miles as his goal last year and had to run over 8 miles a day in December to finish. He said he felt wrecked, and I agree it's a silly target for most runners. I think that is why we've decided to include other distance activities to help make up the distance.

Worth also setting a time goal. I listen to a cycling podcast who setup something called Project 400. With the goal to do 400hrs of activity in the year. Mileage goals can be really tough, especially for slower runners and someone slow could run "more" than someone fast and end up with less miles. Having it as a time goal kind of evens it out.


@Dup Agreed, getting out the door is always the biggest thing indeed. Once you're out after not wanting to, sometimes end up being the best experiences. I don't think recovery runs being too slow would ever be a problem though. As you suggested, the main thing is probably just to make sure you're getting 1-2 sessions of "fast" stuff in every week. Whether that's a tempo run or intervals. I'd still be keeping the slow runs as slow as you can though.
I think that's where a structured training plan is the best. It just really forces you to do the sessions your brain doesn't want to do.

I was last signed up with this. It's not a lot of money a month and uses AI in the main part to create the plan so it stays pretty dynamic based on Garmin health stats, and so it isn't quite as tailored as fully personalised coaching, but it's also a lot cheaper and closer in price to what you'd pay for a fixed training plan. You can get feedback from Karel Sabbe which feels awesome for motivation. Having emails with someone who's set some of the fastest trail records in the world was excellent!

Ultra Trail Coaching

Reach your next goal with your personal training plan and advice from experienced professionals. Start running today.

www.ultratrailcoaching.com

 

[Dup]

Worth also setting a time goal. I listen to a cycling podcast who setup something called Project 400. With the goal to do 400hrs of activity in the year. Mileage goals can be really tough, especially for slower runners and someone slow could run "more" than someone fast and end up with less miles. Having it as a time goal kind of evens it out.


@Dup Agreed, getting out the door is always the biggest thing indeed. Once you're out after not wanting to, sometimes end up being the best experiences. I don't think recovery runs being too slow would ever be a problem though. As you suggested, the main thing is probably just to make sure you're getting 1-2 sessions of "fast" stuff in every week. Whether that's a tempo run or intervals. I'd still be keeping the slow runs as slow as you can though.
I think that's where a structured training plan is the best. It just really forces you to do the sessions your brain doesn't want to do.

I was last signed up with this. It's not a lot of money a month and uses AI in the main part to create the plan so it stays pretty dynamic based on Garmin health stats, and so it isn't quite as tailored as fully personalised coaching, but it's also a lot cheaper and closer in price to what you'd pay for a fixed training plan. You can get feedback from Karel Sabbe which feels awesome for motivation. Having emails with someone who's set some of the fastest trail records in the world was excellent!

Ultra Trail Coaching

Reach your next goal with your personal training plan and advice from experienced professionals. Start running today.

www.ultratrailcoaching.com

Interesting site. If feel like saving some ££ I may look into that.

All my training is done to time but I still aim for a weekly mileage within those hours. This is what a typical week looks like, tailored for me:

Thinking about it, you have a point, I think my recoveries are fine given I still usually do ~700+ft of elevation no matter where I go, but I do need to push more on my long runs. I think I treat them too much like a recovery and don't cover enough ground as a result. I do get caught up in planning a loop and hate having to find more trail to cover the remaining time left if it's too short. I think I have become complacent on that front, I know my usual routes so maybe it's time to get in the car and find new routes to keep it fresh.

 

[Martynt74]

I'd still have thought those long runs should be nice and slow though. The fact the description by the coach is for easy/forever pace backs that up too.

My understanding was mainly to use the 80/20 rule where 80% is super easy (including those long runs), with 20% being structured and intense with specific speed/intensity sessions. Over time what feels "easy" organically then becomes faster, but they should still feel super easy rather than forcing the easy stuff to become faster.

 

[Martynt74]

Impressive from the hospital. Went for an Ultrasound on my foot. The radiographer couldn't see it being an Mortons Neuroma but wasn't too sure so said they'd do a CT scan. Instead of sending me home with another appointment they just led me down a corridor to do it straight away.

The downside is i'm now back to having no idea what the issue is!

 

[JustBen]

Couple of good runs this week, 9 miles earlier in the week starting at 4:35am, took it easy keeping all to pavements and the pace easy. 11:33 min/miles.
The next day was just over 2.5 miles before work as i didn't have enough time to go further, worked a bit harder down at 9:53 min/miles
had a couple of days off due to lack of time
Friday i did a loop around grizedale forest, first time using mapping on my garmin, a couple of issues getting it to accept i was at the start and a couple of issues where i had t junctions and the watch was still tellling me to go straight leading to me a bit more effort. Total came in at 12:28 miles with 2188 ft elevation. Took 3 hours 32 minutes so some great time on the feet. Some of the climbs up were nuts, hard to walk up so mostly walked the hills, ran the flats and the downs where i could.
one of the miles i did took me 24 minutes! Overall i really enjoyed the run and learnt some lessons
Lessons for me - Put an alert on the watch for every 30 minutes to take on some calories as i realized i was under fueling about half way through. i had been eating along the way and had a maurten but didn't notice the time go by.

up to 24.3 miles for the week, i'll head out tomorrow for a few miles to keep the legs moving then back to it properly on Monday for another road run.

Signed up for Hawkshead: Trail Challenge 16k in April and Staveley Trail Half Marathon Challenge in May

 

[Martynt74]

Awesome work, and yeah. Some of those mountain miles can be slow. I had one in Spain which took almost an hour (albeit mainly was scrambling up 1500ft in that mile )

Sounds like great progress though and a great mix. Amazing effort getting up at 4:30 too.

 

[JustBen]

Awesome work, and yeah. Some of those mountain miles can be slow. I had one in Spain which took almost an hour (albeit mainly was scrambling up 1500ft in that mile )

Sounds like great progress though and a great mix. Amazing effort getting up at 4:30 too.

I love early mornings for road running as it's quiet. Ordered a new head torch, gone with a Fenix HM65R-T and spare battery. I have a Petzl Tikka at the moment so hoping i'll get a more light for longer out of it. I've had a couple of times when the lights flickered a bit when i've not charged it after every run.

Spain would be hard going because of the heat too. Next time i go out on the same run i'll take my running poles, never used them before so good to give it a go when i don't absolutely need them.

Aim for the summer is to be getting on average 35-40mpw with some trail and some road. I've got some moors near me called Kirby Moor that will help with some of the trail bits and hills.

 

[Martynt74]

Good work. The Fenix torches seem to get great reviews and don't quite have the additional mark up of the traditional "exercise" torches i found. I really wish lights had a better readout for battery life. My Silva flashes green/red when you turn it off, but doesn't give much info other than that.
Same with my bike, i always forget to charge it because i finish a ride thinking it's fine, only to start the next ride and it won't power on.

Running poles are great. Especially for those power hikes up hill. Good practice for race day too. I would say to spend some time practicing storing/unloading them from your pack whilst moving too. If you get that technique down you're more likely to use them vs putting it off due to the hassle of thinking you have to take your pack off each time.

You're in a brilliant location for the trails. The Lakes are one of my favourite places to run, but even Windermere/Staveley was around a 70 minute drive each way so i rarely got to venture any further than that, but the north/west always seemed like the better locations.

 

[JustBen]

Good work. The Fenix torches seem to get great reviews and don't quite have the additional mark up of the traditional "exercise" torches i found. I really wish lights had a better readout for battery life. My Silva flashes green/red when you turn it off, but doesn't give much info other than that.
Same with my bike, i always forget to charge it because i finish a ride thinking it's fine, only to start the next ride and it won't power on.

Running poles are great. Especially for those power hikes up hill. Good practice for race day too. I would say to spend some time practicing storing/unloading them from your pack whilst moving too. If you get that technique down you're more likely to use them vs putting it off due to the hassle of thinking you have to take your pack off each time.

You're in a brilliant location for the trails. The Lakes are one of my favourite places to run, but even Windermere/Staveley was around a 70 minute drive each way so i rarely got to venture any further than that, but the north/west always seemed like the better locations.

Torch turned up, really bright. It has a battery life light with the battery it comes with but not with the spare battery that i got with it.

Windermere's around 50 minutes away from me when quiet so not massively far but still a faff, can see why people pay lots to live right near the lakes.

 

[D.P.]

Torch turned up, really bright. It has a battery life light with the battery it comes with but not with the spare battery that i got with it.

Windermere's around 50 minutes away from me when quiet so not massively far but still a faff, can see why people pay lots to live right near the lakes.

i use a Fenix 65RT for most of my races. The low light setting gives plenty of light for 90% of a race, sometimes I use the middle setting for some technical terrain if i am still moving fast, and the turbo mode if i am lost trying to sport a reflective marker. At low settings the battery easily lasts a long night.

Only downside is you need to tighten it quite a lot to stop it moving. I add some foam protection on front and back. Don't make that put you off, it works better than 4-5 other head lamps i have. If you wear a hat/buff underneath then no need need for any extra cushioning

 

[JustBen]

i use a Fenix 65RT for most of my races. The low light setting gives plenty of light for 90% of a race, sometimes I use the middle setting for some technical terrain if i am still moving fast, and the turbo mode if i am lost trying to sport a reflective marker. At low settings the battery easily lasts a long night.

Only downside is you need to tighten it quite a lot to stop it moving. I add some foam protection on front and back. Don't make that put you off, it works better than 4-5 other head lamps i have. If you wear a hat/buff underneath then no need need for any extra cushioning

I noticed that with how bright it was on low settings, best bit will not be having to charge after each run. My other one on low light was useless apart from for people to see me, on medium it'd get maybe 2-3 hours and on full less than hour.

I run with a cap in pretty much all conditions so think i'll be fine. Started getting a bit of list of stuff i could still do with buying, quite an expensive hobby for a 'free hobby'
Looking at another pair of smartwool socks, really impressed with the pair i have for staying warm when wet.
A pair of running gloves/hat. Probs just go with Smartwool ones if their socks are out to go by.
A pair of Taped seemed waterproofs, thinking of the ones that Ultimate Direction do (circa £100)
A new pair of shorts
Some more chafe stuff, tried squirel nuts butter but it's not the most pliable. Thinking 2toms butt shield.
Another pair of Puma Magnify to replace the existing

Lots of snacks, think i've got enough tailwind to last me a month, but have no gels or energy bars.

 

[D.P.]

Everything in running is relatively cheap, but the amount of gear adds up. The good thing is the gear is in general useful, for hiking, camping, travelling etc.

 

[D.P.]

Just finished the https://ultramediterrania.com/ near Alicante.

I really underestimate how technical and challenging it would be. To be fair, purposely picked a winter race with the most vertical but 8600m in 168km is a mot less than my usual alpine adventures. i imagined running through olive groved and smooth trails in pine forests with some moderate climbs. But the whole race was barely runnable - limestone karst topography with ankle breaking limestone pavement like Mallam cove pretty much dominated the race, and lots of small rocks like marbles when it was less rocky. Nothing i am not used to, but i was mentally and physically not prepared .

It would be a good goal race for someone looking for winter run from the colder parts of Europe (but the brutal wind and single digit temps at night did make the race wintery). Just don't go expecting a pleasant undulating course on smooth trails. Good aid stations, great staff, well organized, fantastic scenery. Znd what else are you going to fo in January? For the shorter distances it is shorts n t-shirt affair

 

[Martynt74]

Yeah. I found the same with the Benissa 75km I did, just so difficult to run on. It’s pretty much the same all along this area of Spain. Similar to you I was hugely unprepared and thought I’d have steep climbs but then lovely scenic vistas for the rest.

@JustBen id try and pick up some cheaper taped trousers to start with. I got the decathlon ones but hate running in them as I overheat even when running in snow and sleet in January in the lakes. For me they were a tick box item and nothing more.

 

[topgun06]

Hello all,

I come here straight after a run in search of advice. I am suffering with seemingly random pains on each and every run to varying extents and need a solution.

A little history. I've been fit for probably the last 15 years, predominantly through lots of cycling, and in the earlier years, regular football and gym sessions including HIIT classes etc. I'd never "got on" with running, so other than football, it wasn't something I've historically done. Through football I injured my knee, nothing I felt serious enough to go to the docs with. But I stopped football as it occasionally flared up again and would interfere with my cycling. Longer walks would hurt my knee also.

At the start of last year, I began going longer more regular walks, my knee would hurt, but over time, the pain stopped occurring. Not long after, I was also invited to play football again. Tentatively I did, but my knee was fine so I have continued until today. Then, last year, August ish time, I was invited running, and it was something I did on and off with little routine, but eventually it began to hurt my knee slightly, so I stopped until I could get some "proper" running shoes. I also took up HIIT style classes at a gym again, lunges, squats, core work etc.

I finally got some shoes, and this is when I began to run more regularly, 2 times week maybe to start with, and from the beginning of this year I've been running maybe 3/4 times a week. I still cycle on the other days, and maybe a long walk, a rest day, and still maybe 1 or 2 HIIT style classes a week.

Right, so my pains. Since taking running more seriously with the new shoes I've has several pains and niggles:
Lower back pain
Plantar fascia pain
Tibialis posterior pain
Groin pain

In every run I suffer from one or more of these seemingly at random. I've not suffered with the back pain for weeks, but today, Monday, my lower back ached to begin with, that eased and was replaced by my left groin hurting, and then increasingly worse plantar fascia pain until the end of the run. Tibialis posteriors were fine today.

In my previous run, Thursday, so three days of rest from running; no back pain, both tibialis posteriors ached, plantar fascia was painless, both groins ached. But pain wasn't too bad. You get the picture? All kinds of different combos.

I have been doing to calf stretching and exercises after doing some googling relating to tibialis posterior pain. This seems to have helped, but really, I'm not sure.

I'm just getting frustrated. I'm fit, I feel I should be able to do this pain free. I guess everything from mid-calf down feels achy whilst running. I want to begin running longer distances, but the issues are just putting me off. I'm roughly doing 4-6 miles each run at the moment. 30-50 minutes ish.


Any words of wisdom?

 

[D.P.]

Hello all,

I come here straight after a run in search of advice. I am suffering with seemingly random pains on each and every run to varying extents and need a solution.

A little history. I've been fit for probably the last 15 years, predominantly through lots of cycling, and in the earlier years, regular football and gym sessions including HIIT classes etc. I'd never "got on" with running, so other than football, it wasn't something I've historically done. Through football I injured my knee, nothing I felt serious enough to go to the docs with. But I stopped football as it occasionally flared up again and would interfere with my cycling. Longer walks would hurt my knee also.

At the start of last year, I began going longer more regular walks, my knee would hurt, but over time, the pain stopped occurring. Not long after, I was also invited to play football again. Tentatively I did, but my knee was fine so I have continued until today. Then, last year, August ish time, I was invited running, and it was something I did on and off with little routine, but eventually it began to hurt my knee slightly, so I stopped until I could get some "proper" running shoes. I also took up HIIT style classes at a gym again, lunges, squats, core work etc.

I finally got some shoes, and this is when I began to run more regularly, 2 times week maybe to start with, and from the beginning of this year I've been running maybe 3/4 times a week. I still cycle on the other days, and maybe a long walk, a rest day, and still maybe 1 or 2 HIIT style classes a week.

Right, so my pains. Since taking running more seriously with the new shoes I've has several pains and niggles:
Lower back pain
Plantar fascia pain
Tibialis posterior pain
Groin pain

In every run I suffer from one or more of these seemingly at random. I've not suffered with the back pain for weeks, but today, Monday, my lower back ached to begin with, that eased and was replaced by my left groin hurting, and then increasingly worse plantar fascia pain until the end of the run. Tibialis posteriors were fine today.

In my previous run, Thursday, so three days of rest from running; no back pain, both tibialis posteriors ached, plantar fascia was painless, both groins ached. But pain wasn't too bad. You get the picture? All kinds of different combos.

I have been doing to calf stretching and exercises after doing some googling relating to tibialis posterior pain. This seems to have helped, but really, I'm not sure.

I'm just getting frustrated. I'm fit, I feel I should be able to do this pain free. I guess everything from mid-calf down feels achy whilst running. I want to begin running longer distances, but the issues are just putting me off. I'm roughly doing 4-6 miles each run at the moment. 30-50 minutes ish.


Any words of wisdom?

IMO, you should see a doctor for tests.

But you still seem to have a high volume. HIIT is especially problematic. You can try dropping everything except running. Back pain could even be a result of cycling etc.


The other thing is to make sure you are running slow enough. Easiest way to test is to run with a phone and call a friend. You should have no problem talking to someone while running. Even then, if you have a relatively high fitness from e.g. cycling then your run pace will need to be frustratingly slow for many months until your body exists.

 

[Martynt74]

The other thing is to make sure you are running slow enough. Easiest way to test is to run with a phone and call a friend. You should have no problem talking to someone while running. Even then, if you have a relatively high fitness from e.g. cycling then your run pace will need to be frustratingly slow for many months until your body exists.

I think this is the key one. Example runs seems to suggest 8 min miles which is relatively quick for someone starting out and it takes quite a bit of time for the body to adjust. Try putting a pacer on your watch for something like 11 min miles and try running for similar time. Do you get the same pains from that?

 

[topgun06]

I think this is the key one. Example runs seems to suggest 8 min miles which is relatively quick for someone starting out and it takes quite a bit of time for the body to adjust. Try putting a pacer on your watch for something like 11 min miles and try running for similar time. Do you get the same pains from that?

IMO, you should see a doctor for tests.

But you still seem to have a high volume. HIIT is especially problematic. You can try dropping everything except running. Back pain could even be a result of cycling etc.


The other thing is to make sure you are running slow enough. Easiest way to test is to run with a phone and call a friend. You should have no problem talking to someone while running. Even then, if you have a relatively high fitness from e.g. cycling then your run pace will need to be frustratingly slow for many months until your body exists.

Thanks both. Interesting. I can certainly give it a go. Just looked back at my timings, my first run was 8:25/mi. I remember that being way too quick for my running fitness, I had no idea on pacing, and I didn't have a watch back then. Since then I quickly got to where 5k was comfortable, and runs since then have all been between 8-9 minute miles. I didn't feel tired or felt particularly fatigued last night, it was just my achy lower legs which was troublesome.

I've woken up this morning, and my left groin is tender. Last week I remember doing a Monday run, did another run on Tuesday (felt really good (got a 24:59 5k)), followed by football in the evening. And by that time I was dialing my football efforts back because of the discomfort in my groin. Maybe I'm trying to do too much stuff too soon. Maybe I can swap some running for cycling, which has always been problem free.

I'll try a super steady run and see what happens with any aches. I can imagine 11:00/mi being super frustrating though

 

[Martynt74]

Yes, i think i'd try and scale back running to twice a week. Especially if you're noticing issues and then you can scale this overtime. You clearly have a decent level of general fitness and that's likely causing problems as for many new runners their cardio system is a big limiting factor.

So it's just trying to identify the cause of the pains. You mentioned being fit for 15 years so i'm assuming mid 30's or so? The other thing to bear in mind is aches quickly get worse at this age, and more effort put into recovery is needed. Depending on how much you enjoy the HIIT classes it might make sense to swap them out for a lower intensity strength workout.

 

[D.P.]

Thanks both. Interesting. I can certainly give it a go. Just looked back at my timings, my first run was 8:25/mi. I remember that being way too quick for my running fitness, I had no idea on pacing, and I didn't have a watch back then. Since then I quickly got to where 5k was comfortable, and runs since then have all been between 8-9 minute miles. I didn't feel tired or felt particularly fatigued last night, it was just my achy lower legs which was troublesome.

I've woken up this morning, and my left groin is tender. Last week I remember doing a Monday run, did another run on Tuesday (felt really good (got a 24:59 5k)), followed by football in the evening. And by that time I was dialing my football efforts back because of the discomfort in my groin. Maybe I'm trying to do too much stuff too soon. Maybe I can swap some running for cycling, which has always been problem free.

I'll try a super steady run and see what happens with any aches. I can imagine 11:00/mi being super frustrating though

From this post it sounds mike you are running too fast. Running should be 80-90% slow, low heart rate.Check your heart rate if possible.

I don't know how close to your limit a 25min 5k is but if that is close to your fastest time then in training you should be more like 32-35minutes for a 5k