please just stop it, stop buying

[Panos]

pfft they are talking about bin men comming only one a month here. Just because we have a brown and blue bin. We can fill our black one in two weeks and blue and brown in 3ish. A month is too long but they want to charge more also?
I hate looking at that breakdown.
Sorry taking off topic. Yea nvidia are bad guys for charging soo much. Wait and AMD too!

I have to pay extra for the Green bin after last year -_-

But writing the above, seems applies today in the GPU market....

Actually the AMD cards were overpriced over the last year due to mining craze. AMD didn't raise the prices, the AIBs and shops did. Here in Turing case, we have Nvidia pushing the prices up.

At £450-460 the Vega 64 is great value tbh, considering with a 5 minute visit in the Vega 64 discussion you can beat on air the GTX1080 with 2190 overclock for sub 290W power consumption.

 

[DarrenM343]

The only 1 that has announced it's specs, needs a 2700X or 8700K for Ray Tracing. And DICE has reasoned based on that the RTX cards are not powerful enough for pushing the performance where it has to be, so offloading RT to CPU cores also.

We know DICE was struggling to go over 40fps at 1080p with ray tracing, so by offloading to CPU they might find 1080p 60fps as the target performance. However given how inefficient the CPUs are on the number crunching part of ray tracing that is going to be as good as it gets. If you find that performance at that resolution acceptable, is only you (and few others trying to justify their purchase)

The significant majority in here, find ridiculous a £1400 card, need £400 CPU (£290 if buy AMD) to just do such low fps in 1080p in this age (2018-2019).
Pay a visit in the CPU sections. There are quite a few with 8400 and 7700Ks and RTX2080/Ti. They are all up for upgrading their CPUs now to use Ray tracing because the Turing cards aren't powerful enough?

Is this actually true though or it an assumption because a more core CPU now required for RT gamig?. I cannot find info on this from a quick search. It does make sense now to start using cores where necessary anyway. I suppose if we now get 80 FPS at 1080 P the moaners will move on to saying "yeah, well that's 20 from the CPU, it's still rubbish".
We've still yet to see a game released so any "60FPS at 1080P", although it seems kind of likely, is not yet fact however.
I'd be happy for my 1950X to be loaded up to help RT performance. Personally I don't care where the performance comes from. RT without a GPU that can handle it does not seem possible so the GPUs still the main factor, if this talk of some RT being offloaded to th eCPU is true.

 

[Panos]

Is this actually true though or it an assumption because a more core CPU now required for RT gamig?. I cannot find info on this from a quick search. It does make sense now to start using cores where necessary anyway. I suppose if we now get 80 FPS at 1080 P the moaners will move on to saying "yeah, well that's 20 from the CPU, it's still rubbish".
We've still yet to see a game released so any "60FPS at 1080P", although it seems kind of likely, is not yet fact however.
I'd be happy for my 1950X to be loaded up to help RT performance. Personally I don't care where the performance comes from. RT without a GPU that can handle it does not seem possible so the GPUs still the main factor, if this talk of some RT being offloaded to th eCPU is true.

There is another thread in here with the direct link to DICE announcement that it will offload RT to CPU.

And completely agree with you. I am not against it tbh, especially if it scales to 10+ core CPUs. It will be a boon for AMD TR4 sales. Especially given that currently is cheaper to buy the 2920X than a 9900K

 

[Panos]

@DarrenM343 found it has the whole interview with DICE there.

https://www.tomshardware.com/news/battlefield-v-ray-tracing,37732.html

Right now, DICE is targeting 1920x1080 at 60 FPS with RTX enabled.
....................
So perhaps as DXR-capable hardware proliferates, game developers will see more upside to supporting multi-GPU configurations, making smooth ray traced performance at 2560x1440 and 3840x2160 realistic sooner than later.

a) Since when 60fps was "smooth" performance?
b) Seems even 2560x1440 with Ray Tracing are no go for 60fps let alone 3440x1440 or 4K.

 

[McGraw]

@DarrenM343 found it has the whole interview with DICE there.

https://www.tomshardware.com/news/battlefield-v-ray-tracing,37732.html



a) Since when 60fps was "smooth" performance?
b) Seems even 2560x1440 with Ray Tracing are no go for 60fps let alone 3440x1440 or 4K.

I won’t defend this release but to be fair, 60fps is the minimum that you can consider smooth.

 

[V F]

Most people don't pay them. Those top-end products aren't priced according to maximising sales, but maximising profits. Price structures work like this:

In certain product categories, and electronics is a perfect manifestation of this, you get two types of buyers. Those who are financially constrained and seek best value for their money, and those that are not constrained and buy the best regardless of cost. It is therefore in company's interest to have two sales models: one is a carefully calculated Supply-Demand intersection tailored to those with financial constraints. It's subdivided into range bands within that category, but profits are maximised according to this principle. The second sales model is to create a Super High-End that in no way preserves the same value-cost ratio but has enough of a quality edge over the mainstream that the financially unconstrained people will buy it no matter that it's way out of whack with the rest of the product line.

Your plea is doomed to failure. You're not meant to be buying the super-high end because you care about money. The only people who can do what you call for are those who by definition don't care. People who care about the cost are not the target market for the Super High-End. If a company kept pricing in line with the cost-value ratio of the rest of their products, they'd miss out on the very lucrative "I don't care how much I spend" market.

I hope that clears things up on how things work.

Explain this one...

Fatal1ty who is a millionaire, no doubt many times over with all the years of sponsors so why isn't he on the latest tech each release? He's still on 980 Ti SLi to this very day. Yet there is no reason he couldn't afford a 1080 Ti or two or 2080 Ti SLi on release. Yet he plays/streams on 980 Ti, usually with one card disabled most of the time.

Great cards for DX7/8 but fell on their faces for DX9 - would render some DX9 shaders at 1/4 resolution others at full res but reduced bit depth so you got banding and some shaders like water were missing a pass entirely.

Ah, now it rings a bell. It was likely why I switched to ATi not longer after with the 9800XT Half - Life 2 bundle. Omega drivers were the days back then as well.

It's weird reading that and thinking back then. DX7/8 then DX9 lasted about as long as DX11?...

 

[easyrider]

Wait what? You bought a 1080ti for £600 and you're criticising others for purchase decisions based on value for money?

Didn't you refuse to buy the 1080ti on release due to its price, too? You've literally waited the best part of 2 years to save £150 on an EOL card.

LETS MAKE THIS ABSOLUTELY CLEAR.

I’m not criticising others I’m criticising the 2080 series

I haven’t gamed for over 18 months . My plan was to buy 2080 for winter.

I bought a 1080 for less, that offers the same speed and will use this until 7nm or keep it depending on how they perform.

There was no other option , other than to buy a 2080 for more money offering nothing and a 2080 ti offering very little more for £1300 lol

 

[h4rm0ny]

Explain this one...

Fatal1ty who is a millionaire, no doubt many times over with all the years of sponsors so why isn't he on the latest tech each release? He's still on 980 Ti SLi to this very day. Yet there is no reason he couldn't afford a 1080 Ti or two or 2080 Ti SLi on release. Yet he plays/streams on 980 Ti, usually with one card disabled most of the time.

The existence of someone who is not financially constrained but chooses not to buy something, doesn't negate the existence of financially unconstrained people who do. I mean, you're basically agreeing with me that the reason this person doesn't buy two 2080Ti's is not because they can't afford to. If they did want to, the price wouldn't stop them so why would Nvidia lower the price?

 

[V F]

The existence of someone who is not financially constrained but chooses not to buy something, doesn't negate the existence of financially unconstrained people who do. I mean, you're basically agreeing with me that the reason this person doesn't buy two 2080Ti's is not because they can't afford to. If they did want to, the price wouldn't stop them so why would Nvidia lower the price?

Thing is most people on the Internet automatically thinks and assumes if you complain about prices you're a poor sod living on a can of beans. I've watched these arguments for god knows how long.

After all, the meme for so long has been... "Shutup and take my money!"

 

[easyrider]

Is this actually true though or it an assumption because a more core CPU now required for RT gamig?. I cannot find info on this from a quick search. It does make sense now to start using cores where necessary anyway. I suppose if we now get 80 FPS at 1080 P the moaners will move on to saying "yeah, well that's 20 from the CPU, it's still rubbish".
We've still yet to see a game released so any "60FPS at 1080P", although it seems kind of likely, is not yet fact however.
I'd be happy for my 1950X to be loaded up to help RT performance. Personally I don't care where the performance comes from. RT without a GPU that can handle it does not seem possible so the GPUs still the main factor, if this talk of some RT being offloaded to th eCPU is true.

I’m not spending £1300 on a gfx card to play at 1080p

I’m not moaning...it’s fact...I don’t game at 1080p , I game at super wide 3440x 1440p.

If the 2080 doesn’t deliver this then it’s a dud...simples.

 

[McGraw]

Most people don't pay them. Those top-end products aren't priced according to maximising sales, but maximising profits. Price structures work like this:

In certain product categories, and electronics is a perfect manifestation of this, you get two types of buyers. Those who are financially constrained and seek best value for their money, and those that are not constrained and buy the best regardless of cost. It is therefore in company's interest to have two sales models: one is a carefully calculated Supply-Demand intersection tailored to those with financial constraints. It's subdivided into range bands within that category, but profits are maximised according to this principle. The second sales model is to create a Super High-End that in no way preserves the same value-cost ratio but has enough of a quality edge over the mainstream that the financially unconstrained people will buy it no matter that it's way out of whack with the rest of the product line.

Your plea is doomed to failure. You're not meant to be buying the super-high end because you care about money. The only people who can do what you call for are those who by definition don't care. People who care about the cost are not the target market for the Super High-End. If a company kept pricing in line with the cost-value ratio of the rest of their products, they'd miss out on the very lucrative "I don't care how much I spend" market.

I hope that clears things up on how things work.

Patronising much?

What about people like me who can afford to buy a 2080ti but choose not to as there is no purchasing joy.

You do realise that lots of rich people are rich because they are careful with money don’t you?

Anyway, this isn’t really about the super high end being out of the reach of paupers, it’s about the large price increase across the range for minimal performance and features that currently have no use.

Most companies have to be creative in getting stuff to market. NVidia just let the people who don’t care about the cost of their GPU pick up the slack.

If there was more competition in the market they wouldn’t be getting away with it.

 

[easyrider]

Patronising much?

What about people like me who can afford to buy a 2080ti but choose not to as there is no purchasing joy.

You do realise that lots of rich people are rich because they are careful with money don’t you?

Anyway, this isn’t really about the super high end being out of the reach of paupers, it’s about the large price increase across the range for minimal performance and features that currently have no use.

Most companies have to be creative in getting stuff to market. NVidia just let the people who don’t care about the cost of their GPU pick up the slack.

If there was more competition in the market they wouldn’t be getting away with it.

Agree, I’m not poor, and yet I begged @Gibbo to drop the price on the 1080ti and then bought it on paypal credit 0% for 4 months.

I could by a 2080ti if I wanted without a care in the world...but I just wouldn’t enjoy it...I’ll enjoy clocking the 1080ti and nipping at the heels of a 2080ti for £700 less...

I’m an oldskool overclocker...it’s a shame nothing is about where you get performance for free...flashing a gfx card bios to unlock pipes, clocking cheap cpus up to get close to high end...

That’s what I enjoy...the pc hardware community is becoming more elitist and conservative.

Were the width of your wallet provides the user with pseudo status...

It’s pathetic.

 

[Panos]

Agree, I’m not poor, and yet I begged @Gibbo to drop the price on the 1080ti and then bought it on paypal credit 0% for 4 months.

I could by a 2080ti if I wanted without a care in the world...but I just wouldn’t enjoy it...I’ll enjoy clocking the 1080ti and nipping at the heels of a 2080ti for £700 less...

I’m an oldskool overclocker...it’s a shame nothing is about where you get performance for free...flashing a gfx card bios to unlock pipes, clocking cheap cpus up to get close to high end...

That’s what I enjoy...the pc hardware community is becoming more elitist and conservative.

Were the width of your wallet provides the user with pseudo status...

It’s pathetic.

Because I am oldschool overclocker, went from GTX1080Ti to Vega 64. It is the best card to overclock and tweak, and having most fun with since the ATI 9000 series.
But I do not expect from noob overclockers to understand that overclocking is not spending exuberant amount of money, adding +100Mhz on a sliding bar, and call it great achievement if you manage to make it +120Mhz, as the Nvidia overclocking has become.
Many lost the perspective of the overclocking as hobby, looking only how to get more fps by spending more money. And if they do not like someone's post, they are on insult rampage.

 

[spikeot]

I genuinely can’t believe the amount of judgemental ***** on this thread. The 2080Ti will never sell in high enough volumes to screw over the average GPU buyer. As said in every thread about this type of thing, vote with your wallets, it’s the only language businesses understand. Look at the Steam hardware survey and see how many cards on the market there are above Vega 56 or GTX1080 level. The 2080 and 2080Ti are halo products. Their existence alone (and their extremely limited popularity) will not ruin the GPU market for the average buyer.

There’s 2 other things to consider. If it turns out that a significant chunk of the 2080Ti cards on the market is faulty, then does nobody think that might be part of the reason that the card is so expensive? The chip is massive on the Ti cards and GDDR6 is brand new on the mass market too. The whole Ti card is made of bleeding edge, low yield technology meaning Nvidia is probably throwing half the production away. That, and recouping R&D spend is why they’re so expensive.

The second thing is 7nm. Nobody has the faintest clue what that will mean for price/ performance ratio and perceived value for money because we don’t know what yields there will be for GPUs of that die size. Nobody knows how long it’ll be before GPUs based on it will be available either.

Don’t forget that one of the most embarrassing things about the 2080Ti launch is that it’s over 2 years since the Pascal launch and it’s proving difficult to beat in performance without yields being decimated.

Everyone has been talking about NVidia abusing their dominant market position by not innovating over the last 12 months saying things like, “they haven’t replaced Pascal because they have no competition”, as if they had a high end replacement waiting in the wings. They didn’t. If that were true, they’d have had manufacturing down to a fine art for this launch, and I think even the most ardent Nvidia fan boy wouldn’t argue that’s the case here!

TLR - The point I’m trying to make to the OP is that you have nothing to fear from people like me buying a 2080Ti. There’s no need to kick off like the current marketplace is our fault. It’s not, and there’s not enough of us to affect your buying patterns even if we were the capitalist villains insinuated throughout this and many other threads. The bad news is that those hanging on for 7nm, waiting for it to suddenly be a silver bullet making everything run at 200fps for £9.50 are likely to be disappointed. Let’s just hope AMD can shake things up in the GPU market like they have for CPUs. Intel’s arrival in the space will also be good for competition and therefor hopefully prices.

 

[Gregster]

OP as a good point. You just seem to be attacking him. Just so you can rock up in here with your 2080ti shoes and tell him how much of a baby he is, as he's not so great at life as you are.

Fair play to you for spending £1500 on your TI without a second thought. No need to attack the guy though. He's just a normal chap on a normal wage who's used to spending £300-£400 for a very good GPU, I bet.

I agree its peoples money do what you want with it, but NVIDIA are mugging people off especially with news coming out these TI's are dieing already.

Its like apple fanboism in the GPU section of late. Everyone as lost there minds.

Attacking the OP LMFAO. Should I just suck it up and sit quietly while people rant on about what I choose to purchase. I don't have a pot to **** in so to speak and proper enjoy my life. I also don't have 2080Ti shoes and that wouldn't be very comfy either. I never knock anybody for what they buy, I don't actually care what people buy and wish for them to enjoy gaming as much as I do, regardless of what they use. I also don't have an iphone and rock a Sumsung S8 and I work very hard for my wage. Sorry if that is offensive but whatever lol

 

[Dicehunter]

Because I am oldschool overclocker, went from GTX1080Ti to Vega 64. It is the best card to overclock and tweak, and having most fun with since the ATI 9000 series.
But I do not expect from noob overclockers to understand that overclocking is not spending exuberant amount of money, adding +100Mhz on a sliding bar, and call it great achievement if you manage to make it +120Mhz, as the Nvidia overclocking has become.
Many lost the perspective of the overclocking as hobby, looking only how to get more fps by spending more money. And if they do not like someone's post, they are on insult rampage.

I'm on a Vega 64 myself and really enjoy the card, It took genuine self control to not buy a 2080 Ti FE.

So far I've had the following Nvidia cards: 8800, 9800, 280, 480, 580, 680, 780, 780 Ti, Titan Black, 980, 980 Ti, Titan X Maxwell, 1080, 1080 Ti, Titan Xp Star Wars Edition and this is THE first time in 12 years that I have said NOPE, Nvidia have gotten way too greedy, 60% price increase from a launch day 1080 Ti FE for an average of 27% performance uplift over a 1080 Ti.

Unless Nvidia put the massive bag of weed down and stop with these ludicrous prices I'll be staying with AMD from here on out.

 

[easyrider]

Because I am oldschool overclocker, went from GTX1080Ti to Vega 64. It is the best card to overclock and tweak, and having most fun with since the ATI 9000 series.
But I do not expect from noob overclockers to understand that overclocking is not spending exuberant amount of money, adding +100Mhz on a sliding bar, and call it great achievement if you manage to make it +120Mhz, as the Nvidia overclocking has become.
Many lost the perspective of the overclocking as hobby, looking only how to get more fps by spending more money. And if they do not like someone's post, they are on insult rampage.

Big mistake buying an X34...it’s one of the best hardware purchases I have made but it ties me to GSync.

Intel and Nvidia are starting to get right on my mammary glands...

 

[easyrider]

Attacking the OP LMFAO. Should I just suck it up and sit quietly while people rant on about what I choose to purchase.

Buy what you want but it doesn’t change the fact 2080ti is overpriced tat.

Go for it bro...I don’t care...

Good luck to ya!

 

[Panos]

Big mistake buying an X34...it’s one of the best hardware purchases I have made but it ties me to GSync.

Intel and Nvidia are starting to get right on my mammary glands...

Had the 1080Ti Xtreme, a great card and if I had bought the LG32 850G back in March, I could have kept it. However I couldn't have upgraded to 2080Ti as it doesn't worth the money.

 

[easyrider]

Had the 1080Ti Xtreme, a great card and if I had bought the LG32 850G back in March, I could have kept it. However I couldn't have upgraded to 2080Ti as it doesn't worth the money.

This is the first time I haven’t dabbled in the latest gen...and it feels good.

I’m looking forward to some retro gaming with my new 1080ti