Plusnet Discussion Thread

Locky · 22 Jan 2013 at 22:28

bremen1874 said:
Don't know. It was installed yesterday and I haven't got too involved with it yet. I was getting 5ms pings to some of the speedtest.net hosts earlier today if that's any indication.

just that your second hop is a little high.

bremen1874 · 22 Jan 2013 at 22:32

Locky said:
just that your second hop is a little high.

Second attempt...

Code:

C:\Users\Admin>tracert bbc.co.uk
Tracing route to bbc.co.uk [212.58.241.131]
over a maximum of 30 hops:
  1    65 ms    99 ms    99 ms  dsldevice.lan [192.168.1.254]
  2    21 ms    16 ms    16 ms  lo0-central10.ptw-ag03.plus.net [195.166.128.197
]
  3    16 ms    15 ms    15 ms  link10-central10.ptw-gw02.plus.net [84.93.248.82
]
  4    15 ms    15 ms    15 ms  xe-7-2-0.ptw-cr02.plus.net [212.159.1.22]
  5    16 ms    15 ms    16 ms  ae2.ptw-cr01.plus.net [195.166.129.4]
  6    16 ms    15 ms    16 ms  kingston-gw.thdo.bbc.co.uk [212.58.239.6]
  7     *        *        *     Request timed out.
  8    16 ms    58 ms    16 ms  ae1.er01.rbsov.bbc.co.uk [132.185.254.46]
  9    17 ms    16 ms    18 ms  132.185.255.60
 10    15 ms    16 ms    15 ms  212.58.241.131
Trace complete.
C:\Users\Admin>

bobpullen · 23 Jan 2013 at 10:33

Locky said:
just that your second hop is a little high.

ICMP traces don't really work like this. Each hop pretty much shows the round-trip-time to/from your machine to that particular host. If you get decent ping responses from the destination host then in most cases any intermediate hops are irrelevant.

Routers have a habit of favouring the actual routing of traffic rather than attributing resource to responding to ICMP packets. That's why the first hop's so high. The 582n de-prioritises ICMP packets. If you were to run a UDP or TCP trace you wouldn't see that.

bremen1874 said:
As above I had Plusnet Unlimited Fibre installed yesterday.

It's profiled at 40/10 at the moment rather than 80/20. Does anyone know if this will get fixed automatically, or do I need to chase it?

That's part of a know problem that was actually fixed this morning (ref: 74168). If you can provide me with your account username or a recent support ticket reference then I'll get it sorted for you.

Best regards,

Locky · 23 Jan 2013 at 14:01

bobpullen said:
ICMP traces don't really work like this. Each hop pretty much shows the round-trip-time to/from your machine to that particular host. If you get decent ping responses from the destination host then in most cases any intermediate hops are irrelevant.

Routers have a habit of favouring the actual routing of traffic rather than attributing resource to responding to ICMP packets. That's why the first hop's so high. The 582n de-prioritises ICMP packets. If you were to run a UDP or TCP trace you wouldn't see that.

That's part of a know problem that was actually fixed this morning (ref: 74168). If you can provide me with your account username or a recent support ticket reference then I'll get it sorted for you.

Best regards,

I know that, but I'm interested if hes on interleave or fast-path, but without an unlocked modem, you can never tell, unless you are on infinty where the first hop is around 5ms.

blueacid · 23 Jan 2013 at 14:47

One question I have is: how will Plusnet prioritise things on their core network if the congestion appears there.

Currently as I understand it, if the core network is idle:
- p2p and usenet run at line speed when the end user is doing nothing else
- p2p and usenet will slow down sufficiently to ensure that gaming and VoIP enjoy a good quality of service where required. But they won't drop to an arbitrary slow speed "just because"

So if the core network is congested and one user tries to torrent or use usenet..what speed might they expect? Below what threshold would Plusnet begin to take interest?

drizzy · 23 Jan 2013 at 14:49

Looks like the first plusnet hop is in London (based on name, and latency on subsequent hops), so it's hard to tell if it's 8ms of interleave in one direction (ie 12-13ms first hop) and 3-4ms of transit from the midlands to london

OR

no interleave, 3-4ms transit, and 7-8ms of BT mystery network shenanigans.

I would love it if it were the first, but probably the second.

Or he's not in the midlands at all and this piece of information is throwing me off!

valve90210 · 23 Jan 2013 at 15:12

I'm considering this service for phone and Fibre when I move house in a couple of months but just wanted to check something...

I know a new modem and router will be provided... which will be fine, however, I currently use an old netgear wifi router as an access point will I still be able to use this? And indeed will I be able to use my existing network switches?

bobpullen · 23 Jan 2013 at 15:23

Locky said:
I know that, but I'm interested if hes on interleave or fast-path, but without an unlocked modem, you can never tell, unless you are on infinty where the first hop is around 5ms.

Can you elaborate on this? Infinity uses the same wholesale network and relies on a WAN connection from a Home Hub to the same VDSL modem so I'm struggling to understand how you've drawn the conclusion?

FWIW though, my line is fastpath (certainly on the downstream). Here's a trace:

Code:

Tracing route to bbc.co.uk [212.58.241.131]
over a maximum of 30 hops:

  1     3 ms     3 ms     3 ms  home.gateway [192.168.1.254]
  2    16 ms    22 ms    16 ms  lo0-central10.ptn-ag04.plus.net [195.166.128.193
]
  3    16 ms    15 ms    16 ms  link3-central10.ptn-gw01.plus.net [84.93.248.228
]
  4    16 ms    15 ms    15 ms  xe-10-1-0.ptw-cr01.plus.net [212.159.1.44]
  5    16 ms    15 ms    28 ms  kingston-gw.thdo.bbc.co.uk [212.58.239.6]
  6     *        *        *     Request timed out.
  7    15 ms    16 ms    15 ms  ae1.er01.rbsov.bbc.co.uk [132.185.254.46]
  8    16 ms    19 ms    16 ms  132.185.255.60
  9    17 ms    16 ms    16 ms  212.58.241.131

Trace complete.

blueacid said:
So if the core network is congested and one user tries to torrent or use usenet..what speed might they expect? Below what threshold would Plusnet begin to take interest?

Bandwidth is provisioned so that there are no significant slowdowns affecting lesser priority traffic. We'd take notice should this ever not be the case.

drizzy said:
Looks like the first plusnet hop is in London (based on name, and latency on subsequent hops)...

Clue is indeed in the name:

Code:

  2    21 ms    16 ms    16 ms  lo0-central10.ptw-ag03.plus.net [195.166.128.197]

'ptw' is Telehouse West meaning the edge router bremen1874's connected to is based in one of our data suites down in London docklands.

Best regards,

Locky · 23 Jan 2013 at 15:29

Code:

Tracing route to www.bbc.net.uk [212.58.244.70]
over a maximum of 30 hops:

  1    <1 ms    <1 ms    <1 ms  READYSHARE [192.168.1.1]
  2     5 ms     5 ms     5 ms  217.32.144.162
  3     6 ms     6 ms     5 ms  217.32.144.206
  4     7 ms     7 ms     7 ms  213.120.181.50
  5     7 ms     7 ms     7 ms  217.41.169.207
  6     7 ms     7 ms     7 ms  217.41.169.109
  7     7 ms     7 ms     7 ms  109.159.251.211
  8    16 ms    18 ms    12 ms  core1-te0-12-0-6.ilford.ukcore.bt.net [109.159.
51.133]
  9    15 ms    13 ms    12 ms  peer2-xe11-0-0.telehouse.ukcore.bt.net [109.159
254.130]
 10    13 ms    15 ms    14 ms  194.74.65.42
 11     *        *        *     Request timed out.
 12     *        *        *     Request timed out.
 13    14 ms    14 ms    13 ms  ae0.er01.telhc.bbc.co.uk [132.185.254.109]
 14    15 ms    14 ms    16 ms  132.185.255.148
 15    12 ms    15 ms    15 ms  bbc-vip115.telhc.bbc.co.uk [212.58.244.70]

my second hop which is pop site/node is 5ms, if I was on interleave this would be about 15ms.

If my connection didn't route to Sheffield it would be much better to London.

bobpullen · 23 Jan 2013 at 15:45

Ah I see. That's the hops across BT's 'Retail Internet Network'. You don't see the equivalent with a Plusnet connection.

A few years back we did have a number of customers provisioned on BT Retail's network as part of a trial. I saw similar traces from my connection back then.

Ultimately, whether fast-path or not, ISPs have little control over FTTx interleaving at present (hopefully that will change). With copper it's easy to turn on/off etc.

Best regards,

bremen1874 · 23 Jan 2013 at 15:45

drizzy said:
Looks like the first plusnet hop is in London (based on name, and latency on subsequent hops), so it's hard to tell if it's 8ms of interleave in one direction (ie 12-13ms first hop) and 3-4ms of transit from the midlands to london

OR

no interleave, 3-4ms transit, and 7-8ms of BT mystery network shenanigans.

I would love it if it were the first, but probably the second.

Or he's not in the midlands at all and this piece of information is throwing me off!

I should have mentioned that those trace routes were from Nuneaton. According to a tool I came across I'm currently connected to ptw-ag03 in Telehouse West.

Subliminal Aura · 23 Jan 2013 at 16:01

//edit ignore.... seems to be pricey everywhere.

What's the minimum contract on the fibre chaps ?

drizzy · 23 Jan 2013 at 16:47

bobpullen said:
'ptw' is Telehouse West meaning the edge router bremen1874's connected to is based in one of our data suites down in London docklands.

bremen1874 said:
I should have mentioned that those trace routes were from Nuneaton. According to a tool I came across I'm currently connected to ptw-ag03 in Telehouse West.

No need to get offensive bremen

KIA · 23 Jan 2013 at 17:59

Subliminal Aura said:
//edit ignore.... seems to be pricey everywhere.

What's the minimum contract on the fibre chaps ?

18 months.

Stav_13 · 29 Jan 2013 at 09:15

Just been upgraded to Fibre Unlimited this morning and wow! what a change!!

Fully maxing out my line for torrents and anything else! for the price and support you simply cannot beat it!!

I have had VM and Sky FTTC and now PlusNet and honestly say that I am finally happy where I am now!

These services have all been in the same area of Cheltenham.

Thanks

MagicUK · 29 Jan 2013 at 09:44

Bob, could you look into the status of my cabinet? its been delayed since december 2011 and i dont know whats going on and if theres any developments about a date? looking at it, theres the old cab and a street light next to it so i assume it isnt that hard to do.

https://maps.google.co.uk/maps?q=go...d5GYQ4FpVB2FpBh8C4bYcg&cbp=12,234.55,,0,21.65

bobpullen said:
Ah I see. That's the hops across BT's 'Retail Internet Network'. You don't see the equivalent with a Plusnet connection.

A few years back we did have a number of customers provisioned on BT Retail's network as part of a trial. I saw similar traces from my connection back then.

Ultimately, whether fast-path or not, ISPs have little control over FTTx interleaving at present (hopefully that will change). With copper it's easy to turn on/off etc.

Best regards,

KIA · 29 Jan 2013 at 12:19

@MagicUK Have you emailed [email protected]?

MagicUK · 29 Jan 2013 at 15:15

KIA said:
@MagicUK Have you emailed [email protected]?

yeah there not much help plus they take ages to responde and usually its a standard reply, i actually wanna know whats going on with my cabinet.

Freefaller · 29 Jan 2013 at 22:08

Have to say it's between plusnet and BT infinity at the moment (will not be going for Sky).

Ice_Black · 29 Jan 2013 at 22:42

For those who are on 80/20 Fibre, what download speed are you getting from FTP?

Link: ftp://ftp.mirrorservice.org/pub/fedora/linux/releases/18/Fedora/x86_64/iso/Fedora-18-x86_64-DVD.iso

I am only getting 120 KB/sec

Also what speed do you get when you download from SSH using WinSCP?