Political Correctness Gone Mad Again

[Caracus2k]

And my question was how much of someone's income is darts match modelling?

For most a very small part?

I take it you are OK with me coming to your work place, identifying something that constitutes a relatively small part of your duties, stopping you from doing this and having your pay reduced by a commensurate amount? Don't forget that I may be back to look at other 'small' parts of your other duties with a view to stopping those to.

 

[Angilion]

Banning the walk on girls at the start of a darts match - GOOD IDEA.
Banning the grid girls in Formula One - GOOD IDEA.

This outdated practice is sexist and has absolutely Sweet FA to do with beer bellies or fast cars.

I agree.

If they hired scantily clad pretty people of both sexes to do that job with roughly the same frequency, I'd consider it tasteless, pointless and stupid but acceptable because it wouldn't be sexist. But what they do now is sexist, so I don't consider it acceptable and I'm glad darts has stopped doing it.

 

[Caracus2k]

I agree.

If they hired scantily clad pretty people of both sexes to do that job with roughly the same frequency, I'd consider it tasteless, pointless and stupid but acceptable because it wouldn't be sexist. But what they do now is sexist, so I don't consider it acceptable and I'm glad darts has stopped doing it.

Biology is sexist because women and men, when viewed as groups, don't display similar levels of attraction to the other sex based on the physical attractiveness of the other group.

Men tend to place more emphasis on youth and beauty when looking for a sexual partner. Women tend to look more for power, confidence and accomplishment in a man.

This can be observed throughout human history across all cultures.

We have tried Marxist style stabs at 'equality of outcome' they did not end well

Men and women (as groups) are not the same biologically and therefore we display different behaviour. Its neither sensible nor possible to treat the different sexes the same or expect exactly the same from them (as groups)

If the customers/viewers of the darts on average were to feel that they didn't want the attractive women being paid to be present then I'm sure they would go as well...

But you know you are in a minority here (assuming you have actually ever paid yourself to watch darts being played)

 

[Safetytrousers]

I do think that promo girls are a sexist throwback, it really does look ridiculous them walking a darts player to the stage. Then you have the girls at the F1 holding umbrellas over the cars to keep the sun off the drivers.

However, there's subtle variations of the practice, like the women who present the weather who are very rarely anything but easy on the eye. Where does it end?

The BBC weather presenters are professional meteorologists. If you find any of them sexually attractive then that's life. I known of 'weather girls' selected mainly for their looks and that has for a long time been somewhat derided.

 

[Caracus2k]

no

The BBC weather presenters are professional meteorologists. If you find any of them sexually attractive then that's life. I known of 'weather girls' selected mainly for their looks and that has for a long time been somewhat derided.

Are you suggesting that the attractiveness of the female presenters is entirely incidental to them being employed on the TV?????

I think you know the answer to that.

Do I get it right.......its ok to objectify a woman if she is employed to do something as well as being objectified??? I.e if a barmaid serves drinks its fine if she is also being paid for her (objective) attractiveness)??

So which small parts of your job are you Ok with no longer being paid for?

 

[D3K]

Can you please provide a definitive list or what constitutes 'a proper job'? Pehaps they do some other work that relies on their looks at other times that feminism would also seek to prevent them doing thinking it would stop 'objectification'

Which is ridiculous..........men don't 'objectify' women because of attractive ladies at the darts or F1. We objectify women because we are driven by sexual urges honed by evolution and sexual selection which drive us to want to meet attractive women close to their peak fertility age .........

Countries like Saudi Arabia cover up their women in public but the men still 'objectify' the women (I would suggest more so than in the west)

Like I said, many angles to this. I wasn't considering the full-time modelling agency work you're alluding to, but the 'she knows someone in the business' weekend talent. Those girls can get by on a few hours a week and may not feel the pressure to find/start a career they can continue to practice once their looks start to go.

Not sure why you then you jumped into an objectification rant, you might be cross-quoting. I'd also lower my expectations about getting definitive/exhaustive lists in a GD thread.

 

[Caracus2k]

Like I said, many angles to this. I wasn't considering the full-time modelling agency work you're alluding to, but the 'she knows someone in the business' weekend talent. Those girls can get by on a few hours a week and may not feel the pressure to find/start a career they can continue to practice once their looks start to go.

Not sure why you then you jumped into an objectification rant, you might be cross-quoting. I'd also lower my expectations about getting definitive/exhaustive lists in a GD thread.

You are the one asserting there is such a thing as a 'proper' job.....

I suggest this is subjective and so asked if you could offer an (objective) definition (which I expect you can't)

There is just a lot of daft reasoning in this thread

i.e it ok this has stopped because its not a 'proper' job

or

its ok because it only represents a 'small' amount of someone's work

Neither of these are valid reasons to justify the work being stopped by mob pressure on the advertisers connected

 

[D3K]

Your the one asserting there is such a thing as a 'proper' job.....

I suggest this is subjective and so asked if you could offer an (objective) definition (which I expect you can't)

Was the inference in my posts not enough for you? Are you saying that working 4 hours a week holding a placard round a boxing ring, is a proper job?

 

[Safetytrousers]

I take it you are OK with me coming to your work place, identifying something that constitutes a relatively small part of your duties, stopping you from doing this and having your pay reduced by a commensurate amount? Don't forget that I may be back to look at other 'small' parts of your other duties with a view to stopping those to.

That's not a good analogy. I have job with a set rate per hour and set hours, which is a standard situation. If my hours and therefore pay was reduced then that would be disappointing, but that isn't going to happen without a lot of warning and good reason. If you do gig work you know it isn't an income you can so readily rely on.

 

[Caracus2k]

Was the inference in my posts not enough for you? Are you saying that working 4 hours a week holding a placard round a boxing ring, is a proper job?

Plenty of people have work where they do lots of slightly different (but linked) things for a few hours a week to collectively make up their wage (like modelling/ promotion work). Why is this not a job/career? Like I told @Safetytrousers I take it your ok losing (in your case) four hours pay a week on a similar basis?

That's not a good analogy. I have job with a set rate per hour and set hours, which is a standard situation. If my hours and therefore pay was reduced then that would be disappointing, but that isn't going to happen without a lot of warning and good reason. If you do gig work you know it isn't an income you can so readily rely on.

See above as to why I made the analogy and your OK arbitrarily taking away some work from a 'gig' worker because you don't like it but cant really find the words to explain why?​

 

[Caracus2k]

Double Post

 

[Safetytrousers]

Plenty of people have work where they do lots of slightly different (but linked) things for a few hours a week to collectively make up their wage (like modelling/ promotion work).

And in such a situation you would probably live with the full awareness that your income may change with little warning.
A lot of self-employed people have variable income and don't count on gigs continuing.

 

[D3K]

Plenty of people have work where they do lots of slightly different (but linked) things for a few hours a week to collectively make up their wage. Why is this not a job. Like I told @Safteytrousers I take it your ok losing (in your case) four hours pay a week on a similar basis?

You're coming up with your own specific analogies, which are permutations of a complex problem, and trying to break down my (devil's advocate) opinion which itself addresses a different permutation.
Yes some women will lose out on this, some others may see it as motivation to do something more.
Like I said, many angles.

FWIW I don't condone nor condemn the decisions to prohibit this kind of work, as it is quite far removed from my social life / life in general.

 

[Caracus2k]

And in such a situation you would probably live with the full awareness that your income may change with little warning.

But is it right for a third party to enact this change because they personally don't like it, aren't likely directly affected by it and cant really explain what it is they object to?

Its a rather immoral suggestion to says its ok as 'gig' work is unreliable hence if I unnecessarily deprive someone of said work its OK because they should have 'expected it'


Let me give you another example to show why this sort of reasoning is both wrong and immoral

It like saying being assaulted is an foreseeable/ expected part of being a uniform police officer therefore its ok to assault a police officer because its an expected part of their job!

So back to the darts ladies the fact that their work is generally unreliable doesn't mean its ok if you stop the work without good justification.

 

[D3K]

Let me give you another example to show why this sort of reasoning is both wrong and immoral

It like saying being assaulted is an foreseeable/ expected part of being a uniform police officer therefore its ok to assault a police officer because its an expected part of their job!

No, the equivalent analogy to that would be women in these gigs should expect to be groped, and therefore it is ok to do so.

I think his point is that the type of work is not reliable and the offer can be rescinded based on my factors - event cancellation, expected attendance of punters, past performance/crowd reaction, age, whether or not a punter complained, a more aesthetic alternative coming on the scene, etc. All the kinds of nonsense you don't get when in a salaried position.

 

[Safetytrousers]

But is it right for a third party to enact this change because they personally don't like it, aren't likely directly affected by it and cant really explain what it is they object to?

Its a rather immoral suggestion to says its ok as 'gig' work is unreliable hence if I unnecessarily deprive someone of said work its OK because they should have 'expected it'


Let me give you another example to show why this sort of reasoning is both wrong and immoral

It like saying being assaulted is an foreseeable/ expected part of being a uniform police officer therefore its ok to assault a police officer because its an expected part of their job!

I never said expect.
If you wanted to take a job with as little risk to yourself as possible you would not choose to be a Policeperson. Policepeople are aware of personal risk. This does not mean they expect to badly assaulted in the course of their duty, it does mean they are asking for it. Assaulting anyone is wrong.

 

[Caracus2k]

No, the equivalent analogy to that would be women in these gigs should expect to be groped, and therefore it is ok to do so.

I think his point is that the type of work is not reliable and the offer can be rescinded based on my factors - event cancellation, expected attendance of punters, past performance/crowd reaction, age, whether or not a punter complained, a more aesthetic alternative coming on the scene, etc. All the kinds of nonsense you don't get when in a salaried position.

I suggest its immoral to say that because something can be expected that its ok to choose to inflict it on a person without good reason.........

Its not a good or moral justification

 

[Dirk Diggler]

The BBC weather presenters are professional meteorologists. If you find any of them sexually attractive then that's life

Really?

What is it about beautiful women that make them so good at meteorology? Why do chubby chicks find the isobars so complicated?

 

[[FnG]magnolia]

When he says girls, they’re women. We don’t currently have girls walking around in skimpy outfits at sporting events that he’s talking about getting rid of, so you can calm down.

 

[Hagar]

There are quite a few male presenters who get by mainly on their looks, too vain to wear glasses etc. This is proven by squinting at the autocue and inability to have an intelligent fluid discussion without it.