Poll: Poll: Prime Minister Theresa May calls General Election on June 8th

[mid_gen]

I think Labour have done the right thing by actually putting forward a proper left-wing manifesto. For the first time in decades voters actually have a choice instead of one very slightly right-leaning centrist party or one very slightly left-leaning centrist party. The manifestos certainly seem to have improved things for Labour.

Hopefully the Conservatives can keep on handing Labour gifts like this :

Sturgeon's plan to leave the UK - Scotland's biggest market - would mean economic chaos

 

[scorza]

https://www.theguardian.com/comment...k-the-tories-re-leavers-on-how-they-will-vote

Interesting article on how three distinct groups have been identified in the UK electorate: hard-leavers, hard-remainers and re-leavers i.e. people who voted remain but now want to leave (possibly due to the referendum result). One person's comment in particular struck me:

Tom, 27, Taunton: The Conservatives are the only party ready to fight
Voted Liberal Democrat in the 2015 general election. Voting Conservative

The Labour party seems nice but very weak – I think it would leave British people defenceless. Labour is not strong enough to stand up for our country against Europe. I didn’t want to leave Europe – but now we are, and my country comes before a party every time. I decided last year that the Conservatives are the only party ready to fight. The NHS, education, housing, and so on are all secondary points to what is basically a national crisis.

Good attitude to have, similar to mine despite my support for Leave, and I think he's very brave to say so in the current political climate.

 

[mid_gen]

https://www.theguardian.com/comment...k-the-tories-re-leavers-on-how-they-will-vote

Interesting article on how three distinct groups have been identified in the UK electorate: hard-leavers, hard-remainers and re-leavers i.e. people who voted remain but now want to leave (possibly due to the referendum result). One person's comment in particular struck me:



Good attitude to have, similar to mine despite my support for Leave, and I think he's very brave to say so in the current political climate.

If by 'stand up for our country against Europe' you mean 'sell off our infrastructure to European governments' then I suppose this makes sense.

 

[dalehitchy1]

https://www.theguardian.com/comment...k-the-tories-re-leavers-on-how-they-will-vote

Interesting article on how three distinct groups have been identified in the UK electorate: hard-leavers, hard-remainers and re-leavers i.e. people who voted remain but now want to leave (possibly due to the referendum result). One person's comment in particular struck me:



Good attitude to have, similar to mine despite my support for Leave, and I think he's very brave to say so in the current political climate.

I will never personally understand why cutting all your trade deals is more important than having good health and education and housing

We could get the same deal as before.... Minus free movement... And end up with no nhs... Bad schools and no where to live.

 

[antijoke]

Good old Daily Mail never fails to disappoint.

 

[dalehitchy1]

Good old Daily Mail never fails to disappoint.

The media arnt even trying to hide anymore that they are all pro tory. I cant believe this propaganda is allowed nevermind believed.

I bet 100% that if corbyn put out the exact same manifesto as the tories before the tories did.....it would have been laughed at and ridiculed.

 

[Greebo]

Firstly did you actually read my answer detailing why she wanted a GE? You wont get any detail until they sit down and start negotiating, until then you are stating your best position (knowing you wont get it and neither will they). For example the EU want 100B for us to leave, today I read we think its 5B. What will happen is that it'll end up in the middle and everyone looks like they have won

The Labour manefesto is based on hopes that you can get away on taxing the rich and they actually pay up rather than go somewhere else or find a loop hole and not pay up. Do I think they can raise 50B - nope and that doesnt include nationalising anything (oh yes they were going to borrow to do that....)

At least the Labour manifesto was fully costed. You might not agree with some of those calculations and you might not believe they wont have to increase Ni, VAT or income tax for 95% of people but the Tories one is a joke. Last I saw there are 60 policies in there not costed and they have removed their pledge that tax, NI and income tax wont increase. So basically if you vote Tory you are voting for total unknown and it might involve several pence increase on income tax but they are not telling you that.

In fact the more I read of the Tory manifesto the more I am convinced its really been written by tthe normal Labour party!

 

[mid_gen]

Jesus it's embarrassing to come from a country where people lap up newspapers like that. We look like a nation of utter morons.

 

[ubersonic]

I honestly can't see how Labour could win from this position. The Tories are perfectly positioned for a landslide victory.

There is the wildcard that by turning her back on Thatcherism and moving the party even closer to the centre May could lose right wing Tory voters and/or fail to secure right wing UKIP voters. If the shift costs her more right wing votes than it gains left of centre votes it will have undoubtedly backfired.

Last I saw there are 60 policies in there not costed and they have removed their pledge that tax, NI and income tax wont increase.

Do you have a link for that? The one I saw said they were removing their pledge that tax, NI and income tax would be locked and instead promising a tax decrease.

 

[Greebo]

There is the wildcard that by turning her back on Thatcherism and moving the party even closer to the centre May could lose right wing Tory voters and/or fail to secure right wing UKIP voters. If the shift costs her more right wing votes than it gains left of centre votes it will have undoubtedly backfired.

I cant see Labour winning but equally i can see the end result being she has no more of a majority than she does now. Which from her starting position would be a total failure when she should really have wiped Labour off the face of the earth to sub 100 seats and have around 450 herself.

 

[dalehitchy1]

Jesus it's embarrassing to come from a country where people lap up newspapers like that. We look like a nation of utter morons.

Even the US at least went against what the media told them to vote for. Every government in my life has been decided by the sun

 

[Greebo]

Do you have a link for that? The one I saw said they were removing their pledge that tax, NI and income tax would be locked and instead promising a tax decrease.

May and Philip Hammond on Wednesday both said the Conservatives were “a low tax party” but explicitly refused to rule out increasing taxes for higher earners

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/may/18/conservative-manifesto-five-things-watch

And I do apologise they have specifically said they wont increase VAT. As for the rest, they have removed the promise that they wont increase them and just stated they are the party who support low taxation.

p14

https://www.conservatives.com/manifesto

The only tax decrease promised is a reduction of corporation tax again. Despite us already having one of the lowest corporation tax rates in the developed world they seem to feel the need to head towards a tax haven.

 

[Freakbro]

they have specifically said they wont increase VAT.

That's VAT to 22.5% then

 

[scorza]

Maybe The Sun is just more in touch with ordinary voters than places like the BBC, Guardian etc. The Sun doesn't decide anything, all it can do is influence.

 

[Vonhelmet]

Maybe The Sun is just more in touch with ordinary voters than places like the BBC, Guardian etc. The Sun doesn't decide anything, all it can do is influence.

At some point influence becomes the same as deciding.

 

[mid_gen]

If people can't see that Mail front page for what it is, they deserve everything they get.

The wealthy elite that control UK media have realised that people in the UK are stupid sheep and they can print any old nonsense and swing elections and referendums whichever way they please.

 

[dalehitchy1]

Maybe The Sun is just more in touch with ordinary voters than places like the BBC, Guardian etc. The Sun doesn't decide anything, all it can do is influence.

So lets say I own the majority of papers. I then trash the tories for the next 5 years (some true stories others not) whilst praising the green party. Then come election time I print a headline "enough is enough... vote green"

Do you think the greens vote share would increase?

 

[dowie]

I think you're stretching it a bit - it isn't exactly a one way relationship, a populist newspaper like the sun would potentially lose rather a lot of readers if they simply decided overnight to completely change their stance and embrace the green party

this idea that they're all leading the braindead masses is pretty dubious - they can influence, sure - but only to an extent. In some way they also follow the public mood

 

[antijoke]

I think you're stretching it a bit - it isn't exactly a one way relationship, a populist newspaper like the sun would potentially lose rather a lot of readers if they simply decided overnight to completely change their stance and embrace the green party

this idea that they're all leading the braindead masses is pretty dubious - they can influence, sure - but only to an extent. In some way they also follow the public mood

I think you are playing down the average Sun reader and what they believe is printed in their daily paper.

I'd argue that the Sun readers use the paper as probably their whole source on political news so whatever they peddle there they will believe as fact.

 

[dalehitchy1]

I think you're stretching it a bit - it isn't exactly a one way relationship, a populist newspaper like the sun would potentially lose rather a lot of readers if they simply decided overnight to completely change their stance and embrace the green party

this idea that they're all leading the braindead masses is pretty dubious - they can influence, sure - but only to an extent. In some way they also follow the public mood

I think its easy though. You don't just switch side at the snap of a finger. You do it over a period of 3-5 years. If you want to switch... First you begin by... Pointing out the flaws of the current party.... Instead of ignoring them. Little by little... You push out stories about the party that will make the audience angry.

Once they are at that point.... You start making support for their opposition. Instead of ignoring the opposition party.... You start giving them more attention. 'xxxxx party disagrees with xxxx party'. Xxx party will do this instead. Throw in a few "new party of the people" and a "party against the establishment" and come election time.... You print "the people have had enough" and bamb! got yourself a new elected government.