Poll: Poll: UK General Election 2017 - Mk II

[Macro]

Well this is the thing, maybe he has realised he was wrong all along and the correct thing to do was go along to the debate,

So if may changes something it running scared, chaotic U-Turn -if Corbyn does it's a noble change of heart.... uhuh...

 

[Rroff]

The point is that they can't use them without taking catastrophic damage themselves. Jeremy Corbyn thinks he can "get round the negotiating table" with everyone and anyone and everything will be OK - history tells us it won't.

I do think we should aim to (as Corbyn kind of passingly touched on) work towards a world where we "could" get rid of nukes in everything we do politically, etc. but the reality is that there is no short cutting towards that end especially not with the legacy of the British isles.

 

[VincentHanna]

You just have to look at Ian Duncan Smith to see the reality of the Tories and how "caring" they are.

Quite happy to force the ill and disabled into work. Declaring people "fit for work" who then died shortly after.

Yeah, the Tories are the party of social safety, sure.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/cardiac-patient-declared-fit-work-10522261

 

[FoxEye]

firstly I didn't mention the NHS - secondly you're ignoring my question for a second time and now expect me to answer yours?

I'm happy with the NHS as it is thanks - though I wouldn't be completely averse to say a Swiss model.

I'm answering your question by asking another... it's quite common, actually.

Why should people of all incomes, assets, means, pay a fixed price for social care? Every other tax we have is % based, so the more assets and wealth you have, the more you pay.

Why should social care have fixed costs for all? Why shouldn't the NHS use the same model as social care?

 

[antijoke]

So if may changes something it running scared, chaotic U-Turn -if Corbyn does it's a noble change of heart.... uhuh...

Why quote selectively?

 

[Macro]

You just have to look at Ian Duncan Smith to see the reality of the Tories and how "caring" they are.

Quite happy to force the ill and disabled into work. Declaring people "fit for work" who then died shortly after.

Yeah, the Tories are the party of social safety, sure.

... because the country in the 70s under labour and again from 97 to 201 was a enlightened land of milk and honey... Sheesh, so much gullibility..

 

[dowie]

I'm answering your question by asking another... it's quite common, actually.

Why should people of all incomes, assets, means, pay a fixed price for social care? Every other tax we have is % based, so the more assets and wealth you have, the more you pay.

Why should social care have fixed costs for all? Why shouldn't the NHS use the same model as social care?

I've edited my post now with further details


you're still dodging my question and your further questions haven't provided an answer as my question is conditional on the fact that people are already paying for social care albeit we discriminate based on assets. You can't really expect to have much meaningful dialogue if you're simply evading and unwilling to discuss. Social care doesn't have fixed costs for all.

 

[FoxEye]

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/cardiac-patient-declared-fit-work-10522261

The reality of the Tories is quite different to their election promises, isn't it.

Michael Bispham, 44, was told he was well enough to work again, despite 11 letters from consultants and other medics saying he wasn’t.

He was refused ESA (employment support allowance) after scoring zero points.

Why should anyone trust the Tories to run our social care and NHS responsibly?

 

[ebilcake]

. Jeremy Corbyn thinks he can "get round the negotiating table" with everyone and anyone and everything will be OK - history tells us it won't.

What???

 

[Macro]

Why quote selectively?

because that was the point we were discussing, Corbyns decision to change his mind because all of a sudden he thinks there's something in it for him when up until 24 hours ago he was anti live debate. Just goes to show how quick he will U-turn if he thinks there's something in it for him, 24 hours ago he didn't care about free speech and the voters having a right to hear from the leader of the opposition. I wonder is Alastair Campbell has snuck back into the Labour party given just effective the spin doctors and shills are all of a sudden...

Why not just answer the question without trying to deflect it to May. Oh yes, standard labour scripted practice. If someone says something challenging then say "yes but May <insert waffle here>"

 

[VincentHanna]

because that was the point we were discussing, Corbyns decision to change his mind because all of a sudden he thinks there's something in it for him when up until 24 hours ago he was anti live debate. Just goes to show how quick he will U-turn if he thinks there's something in it for him, 24 hours ago he didn't care about free speech and the voters having a right to hear from the leader of the opposition. I wonder is Alastair Campbell has snuck back into the Labour party given just effective the spin doctors and shills are all of a sudden...

It's not what's in it for him, but how to capitalise on much improved polling figures. That's just clever politics.

Unlike u-turns on Manifesto pledges and Tax rises, which just shows you hadn't thought things through

 

[Schlong&Stable]

Our arsenal is pathetic compared to the US and Russia, they have more than enough between them to ensure we're all screwed in the event anyone uses them.

Pathetic? We could wipe our every major city in Europe. That is far from pathetic.

 

[Hagar]

You mentioned the NHS, which is currently free to everyone (ignoring prescriptions and other exemptions).

Would you be happy if the NHS worked the same way? Everybody paid for their own healthcare costs, up to the point where they had no assets left, then the state would foot the bill.

If you don't think the NHS should work that way, why should social care?

The NHS is not free to everyone, it is free at the point of need. It costs everyone money and it supports people throughout all their life

Social care is a different demographic. We are an aging population due to extended lifespans and lower chidbirth rates. It should not be funded in the same way. If general taxation is to be the model, it will be forever a cash strapped area dependant on the government of the day and will become un-affordable within a generation without huge rises in tax from all stratums of society.

It is better that people have that money to use, buy things, save during their lifetime and then when they die, some of that returns to the providers of the service as payment.

 

[Schlong&Stable]

That's what people voted for when they voted for Brexit. It would be hypocrisy to attack Corbyn for doing the same.

Er, no. Brexit has no relevance to how modern our economy is.

 

[Rids]

I feel this is one of those elections where I just don't identify with any of the major parties. Up to now I've always been a Tory voter, but their manifesto fell flat for me. The Labour manifesto looks to me like it would be a disaster for this countries economy, driving away talent and big business due to excessive taxation... I actually have no idea where to cast my vote, probably stick Conservative but I'm hardly thrilled by their proposition.

 

[ebilcake]

Pathetic? We could wipe our every major city in Europe. That is far from pathetic.

Yeah we could could do that, but we never would because the UK wouldn't be inhabitable afterwards.

 

[VincentHanna]

It is better that people have that money to use, buy things, save during their lifetime and then when they die, some of that returns to the providers of the service as payment.

Like some sort of death tax? 15% maybe?

 

[FishFluff]

I haven’t posted in this new thread yet but will be voting Labour despite my local MP being a despicable human being. I’m not 100% convinced by Corbyn, but I much prefer his approach of listening to people’s opinions and trying to work with them when compared to May’s ‘bloody difficult woman’ approach. I genuinely think Corbyn will make a better fist of Brexit negotiations as we shouldn’t be treating the EU as adversaries, we should be trying to get the best outcome for both sides.

 

[xyphic]

I feel this is one of those elections where I just don't identify with any of the major parties. Up to now I've always been a Tory voter, but their manifesto fell flat for me. The Labour manifesto looks to me like it would be a disaster for this countries economy, driving away talent and big business due to excessive taxation... I actually have no idea where to cast my vote, probably stick Conservative but I'm hardly thrilled by their proposition.

You have the option of spoiling your ballot. Show that you care enough to vote but that none of the parties (well, technically your local candidates but we really all know what's what) speak to you.

 

[VincentHanna]

Except nobody cares about spoiled ballots, they get binned.

If you don't like Labour and you don't like the Tories manifesto, vote for somebody else.