Polygamy

Raz said:
Not sure I agree with that. There is no tangible reason why marriage needs to be between two people only, and I'm not sure how it violates the dignity of women. I would argue that pornography does that, or even modelling, yet many people would say the opposite.
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Because, in most cases, polygamy is a male only preserve and comes along with a system that gives more power in relationships to men. Islam isn't fair in its rules around polygamy as it does not allow a woman to have multiple husbands. Polygamy is just another part of an entire system that reduces the rights and freedoms of women.

I think the only real way that polyamorous relationships will work is in a system where it is applied equally to both genders and in a culture where it is used by both genders.

Raz said:
In relation to Islam, I think societies are less accepting of polygyny than they were previously, but it obviously does happen and where everyone involved is 'happy' and it works then there isn't much to say against it.
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In much the same way that women are happy to wear a hijab/niqab etc. It is a cultural pressure to conform with strict sanctions if they do not (legal or cultural).

We have similar cultural pressures in the UK to certain degrees, girls steered towards dolls and away from construction toys for example. Ask most 9 year old girls and they will tell you they are perfectly happy with playing with dolls rather than boys toys because they have been conditioned to think that way.
 
RDM said:
Because, in most cases, polygamy is a male only preserve.
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Yes exactly, this thread seems to assume its one man and many women. But what if you came home and found your wife in bed with someone else? "Sorry love, get your own dinner would you, I'm busy"

Jealousy is usually given as the reason why these things don't work out long term. "She's spending more time with him than she does with me!"

Historically speaking the other reason is children, most men would rather bring up children that they know are theirs rather ones they suspect may be someone elses. Its the selfish gene principle.

Otherwise its arguably a male fantasy. Its surely no coincidence that most polygamous societies are male polygamous, not female.
 
Blackjack Davy said:
Yes exactly, this thread seems to assume its one man and many women. But what if you came home and found your wife in bed with someone else? "Sorry love, get your own dinner would you, I'm busy"

Jealousy is usually given as the reason why these things don't work out long term. "She's spending more time with him than she does with me!"

Historically speaking the other reason is children, most men would rather bring up children that they know are theirs rather ones they suspect may be someone elses. Its the selfish gene principle.

Otherwise its arguably a male fantasy. Its surely no coincidence that most polygamous societies are male polygamous, not female.
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You are talking about polyandry, And it does occur in some parts of the world!

Polyandry works because most of the time, the Males are closely related so that they have a shared genetic interest in any children that may result.

IME Women are not actually that opposed to the idea of polygamous relationships as long as they are kept fully in the loop (IE not being lied to!)

(I think I had better stop here! ;) :D )
 
Oldschool polygamy:

I have 6 wives! Look how wealthy and important I am to afford 6 wives.... I have 50 camels also!
So, how many goats do you have? Ah? Only 5? And how many wives then... Oh, your goats are your wives?
Well... a sagacious man makes advantage on the dowry.
 
[FnG]magnolia;26798872 said:
Has anyone actually met or even seen attractive people in a poly-anything situation? Even the women seem to develop staggering neckbeards.
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Actually, yes, I knew a couple here who had an "open relationship". They'd been married for years, and, remarkably, ended up splitting up. They had different interpretations of what exactly it means - for the guy, it was about feeling close to a number of different women in different ways, and spending nights with different people, all understanding the situation. For the girl, it was about getting wasted and sleeping with whoever carried her home from the bar each night. She moved to Indonesia to go be a hippie and he's with one of the other partners he was with before at various times.

I lived with them for 2 months, actually. Mighty weird living arrangement. Along with a large Polish man who spends his life making pickles in another friend's basement. But that's another story.

Anyway, to get back to your point, the guy is talented, handsome and charming. And wonderfully disarming. Oh my. The girl is a bit of a psycho, though not physically unattractive.
 
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Firstly, many wives = many mother in laws. This may be where it all goes wrong.

Secondly, if anyone has watched 'My 5 Wives' on TV, you can see the jealousy in the wives faces.

My simplistic brain would equate to that 5 wives = 5 different sex-beds. However, it ain't that easy.

5 women to be as close to as in a monogamous marriage.
5 birthdays to remember and celebrate.
5 anniversaries to remember and celebrate.
When one of the wives thought she had cancer, you would want to spend night and day with her in support, but you have 4 other wives to deal with. You can't be banging wife #3 when wife #5 is crying herself to sleep.

I would be as jealous of them if my wife had another husband.
 
why is it that white muslamic converts seem to be gingers?

or is it more that lots of white people grow ginger-ish beards even if they're not ginger
 
dowie said:
why is it that white muslamic converts seem to be gingers?

or is it more that lots of white people grow ginger-ish beards even if they're not ginger
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Probably been rejected or bullied most of their lives and this is their way of trying to fit in somewhere.
 
I cannot find any moral argument against polygamy as long as all parties give consent. People involved in multi-partner relationships are not really into the idea of marriage so there is really no demand for making legal adjustments to give such relationships a legal facade. That's the case in the developed world, though, where there is a tradition of protecting the people's rights anyway. In most parts of the world, polygamy would be tantamount to downright abuse of women. Intimidation and violence is more wide-spread in our world than most think and in many countries, women can be forced to give consent to polygamy. In some backward countries, the society is so bent on abusing women that legislation to ban polygamy is the only way keep mass rapists under control.
 
nah I think there should be legal recognition - there are potentially issues with inheritance tax concerning assets such as a family home etc..

Obviously some things could be worked out with convoluted legal arrangements, trusts being formed, agreements on separation etc.. without being officially 'married' in the eyes of the state

There is the darker side of course... yes women being subjugated etc.. in that documentary not all of the women were completely happy with the arrangement... they sort of accepted it was OK because... Allah. That sort of situation is a bit crap - for a more liberal modern multi gender multiple marriage I'd expect it would be easier if one or more of the partners was bi-sexual - bisexual women + straight man or bisexual men + straight woman could work. Multiple marriages between homosexuals could work well too - three homosexual women etc.. (IIRC there was one in the press a few months back where they'd formed a legal 'marriage' contract). Basically a three way marriage might well be better if each member is attracted to both the other members - balances it out a bit as each member is an equal participant unlike the whole lone man + multiple straight wives... spending time with each wife on a rotational basis as seen in some Mormon and Muslim communities.
 
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If there existed true equality between genders I suppose there wouldn't be anything inherently wrong with polygamy, from a purely objective point of view. We have not yet achieved equality so legalising it would only make it easier for men to abuse women. In example, considering men currently earn more than women, it would be easier for them to marry multiple women, as opposed to women marrying multiple men.

It would also be wrong to legalise it only for same sex marriages as that would be sexual orientation discrimination.
 
robfosters said:
I find it staggering that polygamous husbands get benefits for each additional wife.
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I agree especially when they have loads of kids between all their partners. I wonder if they'd engage in polygomy and treat their wives equally as Islam prescribes if they were living in the Middle East where there is no child benefit to fall on.

Most of the second, third wives etc seemed like desperate divorcees stuck in their cultural conditions where they are considered "left on the shelf " and found polygomy as their only hope to find a partner.
 
majnu said:
Most of the second, third wives etc seemed like desperate divorcees stuck in their cultural conditions where they are considered "left on the shelf " and found polygomy as their only hope to find a partner.
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Isn't that where it started - in a patriarchal/sexist society - especially ones as sexist as middle eastern societies then a woman pretty much has to have a husband in order to get by. If your brother dies in battle then taking on his wife is kind of necessary for her own survival...
 
eatcustard said:
My views are...


...If you want Polygamy go to a country that accepts it, as its not acceptable in the UK or West.
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So presumably then homosexuality should remain illegal in some countries because if you want to practise it you should just move?

Following that program I had an interesting discussion about it with my wife. She accepts that Islam allows it, but thinks that in most - but not all - cases, it's a sexually motivated decision. I asked her about her views on me getting a second wife.

Another week on the sofa and things should be back to normal.
 
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