Possible new tax for over-40s to pay for social care

[mid_gen]

To be honest, it's not like the overall tax burden between the UK and DE is that different and the UK is currently running historically high overall tax levels. An analysis of the overall tax burden in 2016 shows the UK at 33.2% and DE at 37.6%, which is pretty much in the middle of the range of OECD countries, which goes from the USA at 25.5% to Denmark at 45.9%

https://www.forbes.com/sites/niallm...iant-on-tax-revenue-infographic/#7902705a3180

It just seems this country has a hard on for direct taxes, hence why the Tories always manage to convince everyone they are the party of low taxation (by keeping income taxes low) while hammering indirect taxes and thus keeping the overall burden high.

Not that I'm arguing against more tax, it just seems we aren't using the amounts we collect effectively, since all our services have been cut and infrastructure crumbling even at the current levels

Does the tax burden include health care? Because that's 7-8% of your gross in Germany.

Something that'll make people's heads spin here....if you want to go to church you have to pay Church Tax. That's 9% of your gross income. Loads of people pay it, and are consequently very involved in their local church and community activities.

 

[Hagar]

Does the tax burden include health care? Because that's 7-8% of your gross in Germany.

Something that'll make people's heads spin here....if you want to go to church you have to pay Church Tax. That's 9% of your gross income. Loads of people pay it, and are consequently very involved in their local church and community activities.

Used to be called a tithe but at 10%. You worked the Lords land, you worked the churches land or paid a tithe. Then you got to work your own land. Not much changes.

 

[Greebo]

To be honest, it's not like the overall tax burden between the UK and DE is that different and the UK is currently running historically high overall tax levels. An analysis of the overall tax burden in 2016 shows the UK at 33.2% and DE at 37.6%, which is pretty much in the middle of the range of OECD countries, which goes from the USA at 25.5% to Denmark at 45.9%

https://www.forbes.com/sites/niallm...iant-on-tax-revenue-infographic/#7902705a3180

It just seems this country has a hard on for direct taxes, hence why the Tories always manage to convince everyone they are the party of low taxation (by keeping income taxes low) while hammering indirect taxes and thus keeping the overall burden high.

Not that I'm arguing against more tax, it just seems we aren't using the amounts we collect effectively, since all our services have been cut and infrastructure crumbling even at the current levels

4.4% difference between us and Germany is a lot of money and as you have said we are currently running at historically high overall tax levels so this gap used to be much bigger.

pull in up to 10% less tax every year over 10 years adds up to a huge amount of money.

even at 4.4% that is £27bn less tax per year. that makes the £10bn a year the EU cost seem like peanuts.

 

[Greebo]

It isn't a tax, it's a loan repayment. Graduates are literally repaying an element of the cost of their further education. If you want to be mad at anybody, be mad at the universities system which pays lecturers on average £45k and gives them cushy pensions - the Universities Supperannuation Scheme is the largest pension scheme in the UK - bigger than any private company's.

It would be more accurate to say that graduates are mortgaging their future earnings with a student loan.

Thats a pathetically low wage to be honest. My partner who has a 1st class degree, PHDs and MBA considered going into university and being a lecturer and she loves teaching people but wasnt prepared to take the massive wage cut and do it for a paltry £45k when she earns £100K+ in the private sector.

 

[Theophany]

Thats a pathetically low wage to be honest. My partner who has a 1st class degree, PHDs and MBA considered going into university and being a lecturer and she loves teaching people but wasnt prepared to take the massive wage cut and do it for a paltry £45k when she earns £100K+ in the private sector.

Pathetically low compared to what though? A quick check on the ONS figures show that my original figure was out - it's just over £49.5k p/a as of 2018 for higher education teaching professionals. This is more than the average civil engineer, architect or chartered accountant, each of which have stringent educational and training requirements.

Being able to earn more in an equivalent private sector role is neither anything new, nor a meaningful comparison.

 

[GGizmo]

I don't believe this story that we're struggling to pay for social care, especially with all the foreign aid money we're forking out, or the DUP money bung May give them a few years ago, or HS2, or this stupid bridge idea Boris as come up with.

Isn't it interesting that they have the money when its in their political interest to do so!?

Also if immigration is working and people are paying their tax then why are we running out of money? We've increased immigration in to the UK year on year, yet now they are saying there still isn't enough people working to pay for social care!?

I'm not inhaling what they are smoking.

 

[Greebo]

Pathetically low compared to what though? .

Compared to the private sector. Why would I compare it to anything else? My partner, like a lot of talented people who would make great lecturers, decided not to take a massive paycut.

 

[Mrwong]

Old people can sell there home down size and still have a large chunk of my left over.

The problem stems from councils offloading the social care duties to private companies.

I am 100 % in favor of the NHS taking over, councils keep failing on everything they touch these days, likely to do with the type of staff they hire.

 

[Mrwong]

I don't believe this story that we're struggling to pay for social care, especially with all the foreign aid money we're forking out, or the DUP money bung May give them a few years ago, or HS2, or this stupid bridge idea Boris as come up with.

Isn't it interesting that they have the money when its in their political interest to do so!?

Also if immigration is working and people are paying their tax then why are we running out of money? We've increased immigration in to the UK year on year, yet now they are saying there still isn't enough people working to pay for social care!?

I'm not inhaling what they are smoking.

pyramid scheme is the term you are looking for.

Immigration costs this country more and should be tightened a lot more.

 

[Theophany]

Compared to the private sector. Why would I compare it to anything else? My partner, like a lot of talented people who would make great lecturers, decided not to take a massive paycut.

I'm not sure that makes it a pathetic salary or even that it is a fair comparison given that you haven't said what your partner does for their work (private sector lecturer?).

Oh, and seeing as I forgot to say it earlier: "worst my partner earns £100k+ post ever"

 

[Greebo]

I don't believe this story that we're struggling to pay for social care, especially with all the foreign aid money we're forking out, or the DUP money bung May give them a few years ago, or HS2, or this stupid bridge idea Boris as come up with.

Isn't it interesting that they have the money when its in their political interest to do so!?

Also if immigration is working and people are paying their tax then why are we running out of money? We've increased immigration in to the UK year on year, yet now they are saying there still isn't enough people working to pay for social care!?

I'm not inhaling what they are smoking.

Maybe because even with more immigration we arent taxed as much as other countries and there still isnt enough money to pay for rising care and NHS costs?

But I agree the Govt find the money when its suits them like the waste of space HS2.

doing deals with billionaire property developers so they are let off paying £50m into the local community for schools and facilities doesnt help either.

In order to support the rapidly growing older population we would need to substantially increase immigration way above current levels (or have had a much higher birthrate 20+ years ago but we cant turn the clock back) so successive governments have relied on more and more immigrants adding to the pyramid scheme to pay the current net beneficiaries, the elderly.

Once you fail to have sufficient new members enter the pyramid scheme you find they run out of money very quickly and collapse.

Fine if you have been in it from an early time

 

[mid_gen]

Immigration costs this country more and should be tightened a lot more.

Wrong. Immigrants are net contributors to the economy. If you get rid of them, then we have even less money.

 

[Ayahuasca]

Immigration costs this country more and should be tightened a lot more.

Are you still travelling on this?

 

[krooton]

I'm not sure that makes it a pathetic salary or even that it is a fair comparison given that you haven't said what your partner does for their work (private sector lecturer?).

Oh, and seeing as I forgot to say it earlier: "worst my partner earns £100k+ post ever"

Perhaps because that is an achievable salary by someone with no qualifications? So someone with a boatload should be earning more?

 

[Theophany]

Perhaps because that is an achievable salary by someone with no qualifications? So someone with a boatload should be earning more?

Idk, if they are that qualified then surely they can find alternative employment? Or perhaps they love academia in which case the pay trade off is worth it? Qualifications alone don't determine a job's worth.

 

[Mrwong]

Are you still travelling on this?

Yes, still am but maybe I'll go by train.

 

[Greebo]

I'm not sure that makes it a pathetic salary or even that it is a fair comparison given that you haven't said what your partner does for their work (private sector lecturer?).

Oh, and seeing as I forgot to say it earlier: "worst my partner earns £100k+ post ever"

I have said it before so don;t care I am just pointing out that lots of intellectual and talented people chose not to be lecturers because of the "low pay" relative to them and their earnings. My partner is a vet and even a vet gets paid almost as much as a lecturer does early on in their career and very quickly would earn more so why go and become a lecturer and teacher to the future vets and take a pay cut? She was earning £55k per annum when she stopped being a vet in practice and lecturers didnt get paid £46k back then.

She currently works for a major pharmaceutical company. She left the veterinary practice because she found that wasnt paying enough for the grief and hassle she got and knew that being a large animal vet, she would never be able to physically to keep working until she retired. By the age of 40 she had already broken several bones and fractured her skull and accidentally injected her eyeball with a horse euthanasia injection once! So she moved into the pharmo industry,

She was a consultant/adviser to the Govt during the blue tongue outbreak and regularly had to give briefings to MPs.

She would love to teach and pass on her knowledge and thinks in another 5 years she will be happy to give up her salary (mortgage all paid for) and take the massive drop in earnings to be a lecturer and that is what she plans to do hopefully.

 

[Mrwong]

Thats a pathetically low wage to be honest. My partner who has a 1st class degree, PHDs and MBA considered going into university and being a lecturer and she loves teaching people but wasnt prepared to take the massive wage cut and do it for a paltry £45k when she earns £100K+ in the private sector.

Public sector job secure, private sector job secure only when economy is secure. Hence the pay gap.
So if you already have your house plus investments then getting into public sector for you future pension would be best, as peformance and stress is lower in public sector and I some sectors of the public thee is no stress.

 

[Theophany]

I have said it before so don;t care I am just pointing out that lots of intellectual and talented people chose not to be lecturers because of the "low pay" relative to them and their earnings. My partner is a vet and even a vet gets paid almost as much as a lecturer does early on in their career and very quickly would earn more so why go and become a lecturer and teacher to the future vets and take a pay cut? She was earning £55k per annum when she stopped being a vet in practice and lecturers didnt get paid £46k back then.

She currently works for a major pharmaceutical company. She left the veterinary practice because she found that wasnt paying enough for the grief and hassle she got and knew that being a large animal vet, she would never be able to physically to keep working until she retired. By the age of 40 she had already broken several bones and fractured her skull and accidentally injected her eyeball with a horse euthanasia injection once! So she moved into the pharmo industry,

She was a consultant/adviser to the Govt during the blue tongue outbreak and regularly had to give briefings to MPs.

She would love to teach and pass on her knowledge and thinks in another 5 years she will be happy to give up her salary (mortgage all paid for) and take the massive drop in earnings to be a lecturer and that is what she plans to do hopefully.

See a lot of that reads to me like the old adage - them who can't teach lecture. Like I said a few posts up, qualifications don't determine the value of a job, experience does. Sounds like your partner has the experience and qualifications that would make it a low paid career choice, but from most lecturers who haven't built up that wealth of experience to pass on, it's got bugger all bearing on the real world (£600 left on my economics degree loans ).

 

[Doobedoo]

I would happily pay significantly more tax if I knew it was going to be spent properly and actually go into improving the services that so badly need it.

Unfortunately our government barely know how to spell brewery, much less have the ability to organise a ****-up in one.

Nail on head has been hit. The last thing I want to do is give more of my money away. I’m not a big earner but neither do I feel poor. I take little from others and I live well within my means, it’s not and has never been my fault that the country is in this mess. I don’t even vote so the blame will never fall at my feet neither am I in debt other than my mortgage on my very modest home, of which I had to put down 30k as a deposit from which I saved, yet still have savings I can fall back on.

I’m going to be controversial and a little bit selfish but whomever voted for these and all the other muppets, you pick up the slack, because I have the worlds smallest violin to learn to master.