Post Your Home Cine & HiFi Kit...

[Tephnos]

Placebo effect is negated by blind testing and a lack of variability in the result.

That’s why you get to try before you buy.

I know people who can’t tell the difference between mp3 and FLAC!

Because the difference is extremely minute, tends to only exist in the high treble frequencies, has to be specifically listened for, and finally, generally only really applies to certain songs that the encoders don't respond well to.

You can take a FLAC file, convert it down to MP3, layer the waves on each other and cut out exactly what has been removed from the MP3, then play it back. Yeah, you can probably hear a very tiny something... now put it back in and add in the masking effect that lower frequencies will have and it practically disappears.

Most people can't tell the difference because most people don't care to look for something which doesn't matter. (We are specifically talking 320 here, right?)

The placebo effect is negated by *double-blind testing*. What you have done, from what I can see, was not double blind.

 

[dowie]

The placebo effect isn't necessarily negated by blind testing, it depends on the type of blind testing conducted. People can frequently think they're hearing differences in a simple blind test between two things only for those differences to then disappear in ABX testing.

Fact is this stuff has been tested on multiple occasions by many different people, if you're getting some result that actually shows a difference then it is quite likely that your experiment is flawed. There is some potential for differences, as per the snippet from the below blog post posted previously: "When there is an audible difference in speaker wire due to wire capacitance, it can be interpreted as an improvement when one wire appears to have more clarity but is actually altering the sound and departing from accuracy."

http://www.roger-russell.com/wire/wire.htm#bigpicture

There is big money to be made in wire, not only speaker wire but all kinds of exotic wire—hookup wire, audio cables, power cables and a wide variety of speaker wire including the new term of “speaker cables.” The term cable implies more robust and heavy duty qualities than wire.

I have learned from one wire company that much of this exotic wire is not manufactured in the USA at all. It comes from places like Taiwan and China. It can be bought in industrial quantities at surprisingly little cost and sold for tremendous profits. Custom runs in large quantities, can be purchased having any number of different features and are not a problem for versatile wire manufacturers. It can even be made with various terminals already installed.

The strategy in selling these products is, in part, to appeal to those who are looking to impress others with something unique and expensive. There is also pride of ownership and the belief that if it costs that much it must be good. It reminds me of the Percy Bysshe Shelley poem Ozymandias but for speaker wire it translates to “Look upon my expensive wires ye mighty and despair.” It will always sell to those who want the latest thing and would spend as much for a Rolex watch as they would for wire. Of course, there are ordinary watches that will tell time accurately they but don’t have that name or that price.

Another part of the strategy is to capitalize on the lack of truth in advertising, particularly the whole truth. Perhaps the two words “truth” and “advertising” are on opposite extremes but half of the truth can be worse than a lie. I don’t think the average consumer is any match to cope with the persuasive sales “hype” of professional salesmen praising a questionable wire science and doubtful benefits.

When confronted with the truth, believers do not want to hear about it. They want to remain in the magical world of fantasy where they think they can hear improvements in their wire, often arrived at by making listening tests without adequate controls or understanding of the problems involved including speaker impedance and amplifier stability. One of the prime tools in creating such a faith for the average consumer is by capitalizing on fear and ignorance as in many other things that aren’t readily apparent. There is fear that the wire currently in use is not good enough. There is ignorance because most people do not have scientific knowledge in this area and lack adequate measuring equipment to prove otherwise.

 

[-Ad-]

Audio enjoyment is not pure data, for most people at least.

Perhaps you forget that electrons do not follow Newtonian billiard ball physics.

You’re talking to an Astrophysicist who has worked as an engineer most of his life

Even if we go pure data, it is measurable how fluctuations in input waveform will have a direct effect on output waveform.

The question is, will such subtle differences be perceptible to the listener?

I seriously recommend you look into treating your room with some proper bass traps/art wall panels, rather than ****ing money away looking for 0.1% improvements with fancy named and priced equipment. That speaker cable doesn't even use some fancy material combo, it's just silver plated copper

Spending a few hundred/thousand on some proper acoustic treatment will make an actual measurable difference and improve the listening more than any equipment upgrade ever could. Pus you can take actual measurements before and after, with there being a huge transformation to your ears afterwards.

Having a nice big apartment in London will likely mean lots of glass, hard surfaces and a generally terrible acoustic environment. Some subtle sound treatment could really change your perception on what a noticeable difference actually is.

Have a look at https://www.gikacoustics.com/ They also offer free advice help tailor a solution for you (from some of the folks on AVForums). Then once you've sorted out your room to an acceptable standard, whilst ensuring your aesthetics are good and it doesn't look like a recording studio, then look into some proper digital room correction equipment.

Going for something from Lyngdorf (http://lyngdorf.com/) would be a great start as their Room Perfect is supposed to be the bees knees.

Stop chasing insigificant marginal gains and actually invest in treatment and processing that will improve your experience drastically

 

[crinkleshoes]

Thanks for those links, I’ve been wanting things like that but haven’t started looking, so I’ll check them out

 

[Broken Hope]

I wonder if some people have cables and other crap that not even the recording studios use, how can you have better quality than the actual studios use and then claim you're getting closer to the original sound?

 

[Firestar_3x]

I wonder if some people have cables and other crap that not even the recording studios use, how can you have better quality than the actual studios use and then claim you're getting closer to the original sound?

What if the studio is all digital?

 

[Martynt74]

Plus what does it matter if it moves away from the original sound if the end user "perceives" it to be better for them?

Just like how some people will turn the bass up or adjust other frequency settings. If they prefer their music like that then so be it.

 

[dowie]

That doesn't matter, if that is what people like then that's absolutely fine. What is a bit dubious is all the esoteric BS/snake oil etc.. that gets promoted by the people manufacturing and selling some of this stuff.

 

[V F]

What happened here, 4 pages of speaker/power cable talk...

 

[GoRedwings19]

Sorted. Class A goodiness.

 

[rare]

Wow!!

 

[Yaayuh!]

Sorted. Class A goodiness.
[snip]

Bet that heats the house nicely in the winter

 

[matt100]

I mean.. wow.. I had to look at what it is and wow.. more power to you if that does it for you but I don't think I could bring myself to spend that much on anything other than a car or towards a house lol

 

[Steedie]

Fair play. That looks like one impressive bit of kit

Now sort those cables out

 

[dowie]

It does look pretty impressive!

 

[IvanDobskey]

I just looked up the price of that amp and my eyes were on stalks

Nice looking bit of kit, I can't imagine any circumstance where that is going to be worth the asking price though.

I mean, would you even really be able to tell the difference in sound quality to my £500 yamaha with the same speakers?

I guess if you have the money to spare and it's your hobby then why not eh

 

[crinkleshoes]

Nice looking bit of kit, I can't imagine any circumstance where that is going to be worth the asking price though.

I mean, would you even really be able to tell the difference in sound quality to my £500 yamaha with the same speakers?

LOL

Clean your ears out

 

[IvanDobskey]

LOL

Clean your ears out

Some people will tell you all amps sound the same

Now I don't really agree with that, but I do think most difference in sound quality is down to the speakers as long as the amp is up to the job of actually powering them.

I'd rather spend crazy money on speakers than an amplifier, put it that way

 

[signs]

i don't know if its just because they light up , but i love the sound of my father in laws valve amp set up ( very warm )

 

[crinkleshoes]

Some people will tell you all amps sound the same

Now I don't really agree with that, but I do think most difference in sound quality is down to the speakers as long as the amp is up to the job of actually powering them.

I'd rather spend crazy money on speakers than an amplifier, put it that way

Nope

Completely different sounds from Devialet to naim to nad to CA to McIntosh on same speakers

Hated Devialet