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Mr_Sukebe said:
My system has always been more optimised for music than AV and that’s not something that I’m looking to changej


Sorry, you’ll have to explain that to me
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"A subsonic filter is a component on your subwoofer that reduces the intensity of notes which come through at lower frequencies. It decreases the amplitude of those low notes that you feel more than you hear."

Antimode with 10hz sub sonic filter is one. With older ported sub they didn't have any sub sonic filter, so for any bass below the port tune, it'll overload the port, chuffing will occur, increased distortion, and likely to bottom out the driver.

It's the same principle as bass management for speakers, filter out the frequencies that speaker cannot handle.

I experimented with sub sonic, it allowed me to play the subwoofer around 3-4 louder with sub sonic filter enabled, plus increased sound quality.
 
hornetstinger said:
"A subsonic filter is a component on your subwoofer that reduces the intensity of notes which come through at lower frequencies. It decreases the amplitude of those low notes that you feel more than you hear."

Antimode with 10hz sub sonic filter is one. With older ported sub they didn't have any sub sonic filter, so for any bass below the port tune, it'll overload the port, chuffing will occur, increased distortion, and likely to bottom out the driver.

It's the same principle as bass management for speakers, filter out the frequencies that speaker cannot handle.

I experimented with sub sonic, it allowed me to play the subwoofer around 3-4 louder with sub sonic filter enabled, plus increased sound quality.
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If I’m going to remove my sub completely, what would be the use of the subsonic filter? I assume that my fronts already include a way to roll off low frequencies via it’s crossover.
 
Mr_Sukebe said:
If I’m going to remove my sub completely, what would be the use of the subsonic filter? I assume that my fronts already include a way to roll off low frequencies via it’s crossover.
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Are you running your speakers through a avr or stereo amp? If it's a stereo amp then the amp is amplifying frequenies the speaker can't reproduce so could you a high pass network (or a avr )

Some phono stages have a anti thump filter
Sub sonic, anti thump, high pass/bass management, low pass are are very similar either doing it on the on low frequency or high frequency to redirect audio, depending if it's a subwoofer or loudspeaker.

I wouldn't remove the rel, but if can add add a adjustable sub sonic filter then can adjust that and determine where the sub struggles with low bass.i have ability to adjust sub sonic upto 50hz, that's way too high but it's interesting experiment to try out. Lowering it until it's at the point of not effecting clean low bass, but very low setting to reduce the ulf that my sub struggled with.

If you have a ported sub the setting it to that port tube frequency is a good start
 
It looks like some kind of estimation of bass signals sent to speakers, based upon bass frequencies / output? Manual is a bit vague. Whether it's a sub sonic filter, output limiter, reduces bass/output at progressive level (ie like reverse loudness contour?) or combination of both? Email meridian ask them what does it actually do.

I would think if you use bass management you wouldn't use this feature. For Hifi I'd disable it also. Probably only enable it if I set all speakers to large, and didn't have a sub, and into action movies.
 
No.
I don’t think that you’re understanding my approach.

The fact that my system can also do AV is more of an afterthought and helps sell it to the missus. That’s why I have no centre, only two rears and don’t care about overhead speakers. My rear speakers are an old pair of Ruark, driven by a Linn LK140. Total cost for both was around £250, ie. a small fraction of what the “stereo” cost, and probably less than my cables.

My system has always been about music, which as I’m sure you know has very little below 30hz (Church organs and similar, which is not something that I have much if any of).

All of the spondoolies have been spent optimising it for music and for that, it’s pretty awesome.
To preempt your question about why I’m using an AV processor, that’s down to experience. I only have music in digital format, all cut to HDD, so no need to support analogue inputs.
As a digital source I’ve owned a number of CD players and DACs including units like a Teac VRDS7, Bel Canto DAC2. I’ve also gone out of my way to listen to big ticket units like the DCS, Esoteric, Wadia, Linn, Naim, Opus CD21, NAD51 etc units, where possible in my home.
My belief from the comparisons that I’ve done is that the Meridian is a serious competitor to “good” digital sources, and whilst it’s almost certainly going to be out-performed by the serious dedicated stereo units from DCS, Esoteric and Meridians own Ultra DAC, my 861 also brings along Meridian’s take on room correction, which those dedicated stereo units don’t have.
The only competing stereo digital streaming source with room correction that I’m aware of are the Linn streamers, eg the Akurate and Kilmax DS units.
I’ve had an Akurate DS up against my 861 at home and there was virtually nothing in it. Post that dem, the switch-mode PSU in my 861 failed and I took the opportunity to upgrade its replacement to a better quality Linear unit, which made it sound even better.
Like the Linn units, my 861 has balanced outputs.
Hence why I’m happy to recommend the Linn DS as streaming sources to anyone. I think they’re brill.

My current assumption is that the only digital source that might outperform my Meridian and also have room correction are the Linn Klimax, Trinnov and Meridians 861v8.
 
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Mr_Sukebe said:
No.
I don’t think that you’re understanding my approach.

The fact that my system can also do AV is more of an afterthought and helps sell it to the missus. That’s why I have no centre, only two rears and don’t care about overhead speakers. My rear speakers are an old pair of Ruark, driven by a Linn LK140. Total cost for both was around £250, ie. a small fraction of what the “stereo” cost, and probably less than my cables.

My system has always been about music, which as I’m sure you know has very little below 30hz (Church organs and similar, which is not something that I have much if any of).

All of the spondoolies have been spent optimising it for music and for that, it’s pretty awesome.
To preempt your question about why I’m using an AV processor, that’s down to experience. I only have music in digital format, all cut to HDD, so no need to support analogue inputs.
As a digital source I’ve owned a number of CD players and DACs including units like a Teac VRDS7, Bel Canto DAC2. I’ve also gone out of my way to listen to big ticket units like the DCS, Esoteric, Wadia, Linn, Naim, Opus CD21, NAD51 etc units, where possible in my home.
My belief from the comparisons that I’ve done is that the Meridian is a serious competitor to “good” digital sources, and whilst it’s almost certainly going to be out-performed by the serious dedicated stereo units from DCS, Esoteric and Meridians own Ultra DAC, my 861 also brings along Meridian’s take on room correction, which those dedicated stereo units don’t have.
The only competing stereo digital streaming source with room correction that I’m aware of are the Linn streamers, eg the Akurate and Kilmax DS units.
I’ve had an Akurate DS up against my 861 at home and there was virtually nothing in it. Post that dem, the switch-mode PSU in my 861 failed and I took the opportunity to upgrade its replacement to a better quality Linear unit, which made it sound even better.
Like the Linn units, my 861 has balanced outputs.
Hence why I’m happy to recommend the Linn DS as streaming sources to anyone. I think they’re brill.

My current assumption is that the only digital source that might outperform my Meridian and also have room correction are the Linn Klimax, Trinnov and Meridians 861v8.
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I'd still recommend using a sub if you're not a bass head something like a couple of 10" or 12" sealed box subs with subwoofer EQ. S
 
Mr_Sukebe said:
And your experience and logic is?
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Redirecting bass for movies. A sub can handle bass much better than floorstanders.

Also that's if speakers are in good location for bass resources

From experience good floorstanders have similar bass performance to a decent 10" sealed box sub

Put on action movie and your speakers will be woefully inadequate, and have high amounts of distortion.
 
hornetstinger said:
Redirecting bass for movies. A sub can handle bass much better than floorstanders.

Also that's if speakers are in good location for bass resources

From experience good floorstanders have similar bass performance to a decent 10" sealed box sub

Put on action movie and your speakers will be woefully inadequate, and have high amounts of distortion.
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Partially agreed.
The REL did go to 20hz in my room as I’d measured it and my speakers can’t do that.
What they won’t do is distort. They’ll simply roll off and not playback a 20hz signal.

What you appear to be missing is:
- I don’t care. The bass that I am getting is quite adequate, and won’t upset my neighbours as much
- if I’m going to spend that amount of cash, it’ll be to overhaul my main speakers with a new set of crossovers
- synergy. The REL is going because it’s not fast enough to keep up with the main speakers anymore, as the new power amp has that much more grip.
- yes I could use a new sub for movies only, but as my outlay for AV audio has been a couple of hundred quid on top of the stereo, I just don’t have the mindset for spending more on something of secondary importance
- movies do sometimes have music in their mix in addition to low frequency explosions and earthquakes. If anything, I think that a sub with poor synergy will make those musical elements sound worse
 
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Has anyone here moved from a Roksan K3 to a Caspian M2? Weighing up whether to get a K3 Power Amp, or to replace the Integrated amp with an M2. Hmm, then again I'd have to replace the K3 CD player... maybe I'll get a K3 Power Amp instead.
 
ChrisD. said:
Has anyone here moved from a Roksan K3 to a Caspian M2? Weighing up whether to get a K3 Power Amp, or to replace the Integrated amp with an M2. Hmm, then again I'd have to replace the K3 CD player... maybe I'll get a K3 Power Amp instead.
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Is that as they won't match in looks then? Or some Hi-Fi related reason. :D
 
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