Prince Andrew not served papers as they were handed to his police security.

[Semple]

That's interesting. If it's "certainly immoral" for a 40 year old to sleep with an 18 year old, at what age (of the woman) does it stop being immoral? 25? 30? 35?

And what about the other way around? 18 year old man and 40 year old woman? Exactly the same or entirely different?

I would say the older you get, the more acceptable a wider gap becomes. No particular rule of thumb though.

And yes we're now in a world of equality so just as immoral for a 40 year old woman to be a sugar mama to an 18 year old. That's certainly not unheard of these days either.

 

[FoxEye]

I would say the older you get, the more acceptable a wider gap becomes. No particular rule of thumb though.

And yes we're now in a world of equality so just as immoral for a 40 year old woman to be a sugar mama to an 18 year old. That's certainly not unheard of these days either.

Fair enough on the role reversal question - at least you're consistent!

I just wondered tho, if 40/18 is "certainly immoral", then 40/19 is probably much the same for you (don't want to put words in your mouth here). 40/20 is probably still leaving a bad taste in your mouth..

What I'm trying to get is a ballpark for where for an age where you'd be happy for one of your 40 year old male friends to be seeing a younger woman. Would that be 40/25? Or would you still think that friend was a perv and possibly un-friend him

There's no right answer here, but your statement about "certainly immoral at 40/18" implies you have some kind of ballpark figure for when it stops being "certain". Last time I'll ask tho if you don't want to answer in that detail

 

[sigma]

It's interesting that posters who always go on about rape gangs seem to think Andrew is innocent. I wonder why.

 

[FoxEye]

It's interesting that posters who always go on about rape gangs seem to think Andrew is innocent. I wonder why.

He's innocent until proven otherwise. Although I make no assumption of his guilt or innocence.

I'm sure if you were on trial you'd want to be innocent until proof of your guilt was established with a high level of confidence.

 

[Semple]

Fair enough on the role reversal question - at least you're consistent!

I just wondered tho, if 40/18 is "certainly immoral", then 40/19 is probably much the same for you (don't want to put words in your mouth here). 40/20 is probably still leaving a bad taste in your mouth..

What I'm trying to get is a ballpark for where for an age where you'd be happy for one of your 40 year old male friends to be seeing a younger woman. Would that be 40/25? Or would you still think that friend was a perv and possibly un-friend him

There's no right answer here, but your statement about "certainly immoral at 40/18" implies you have some kind of ballpark figure for when it stops being "certain". Last time I'll ask tho if you don't want to answer in that detail

Just my opinion, I'd probably say it starts bordering acceptable by about 25. No rule of thumb though so with the same gap, I'd say its perfectly acceptable for someone who's 40 to be sleeping with someone who's 62. It's more the naivety element of a younger aged woman.

I also look at it in the way that at 40 the 18yr old is old enough to be your daughter. How would you feel if your daughter was banging someone you went to school with. Would definitely feel a bit weird.

 

[sigma]

He's innocent until proven otherwise. Although I make no assumption of his guilt or innocence.

I'm sure if you were on trial you'd want to be innocent until proof of your guilt was established with a high level of confidence.

Sure, but being innocent in one situation doesn't mean he's innocent in others...

 

[Mr Badger]

I would say the older you get, the more acceptable a wider gap becomes. No particular rule of thumb though.

And yes we're now in a world of equality so just as immoral for a 40 year old woman to be a sugar mama to an 18 year old. That's certainly not unheard of these days either.

It may not have legal or scientific standing, but there is a generally known calculation of half your age plus seven.

For a 40 year old that gives a lower age limit of 27.

 

[Semple]

It may not have legal or scientific standing, but there is a generally known calculation of half your age plus seven.

For a 40 year old that gives a lower age limit of 27.

Yeah I had heard that before and does seem a safe rule to go buy.

 

[FoxEye]

Just my opinion, I'd probably say it starts bordering acceptable by about 25. No rule of thumb though so with the same gap, I'd say its perfectly acceptable for someone who's 40 to be sleeping with someone who's 62. It's more the naivety element of a younger aged woman.

I also look at it in the way that at 40 the 18yr old is old enough to be your daughter. How would you feel if your daughter was banging someone you went to school with. Would definitely feel a bit weird.

Well, thanks for answering. See @omnomnom , it's not hard

Personally I think it's pretty weird for a 40 year old and a 62 year old to be getting it on. At 40 you're still hitting the gym and working and whatnot. At 62, you're close to retirement and much less physically capable, generally.

And yeah, I realise it's the same age difference as 40/18. But to me it's much more weird that way around.

It may not have legal or scientific standing, but there is a generally known calculation of half your age plus seven.

For a 40 year old that gives a lower age limit of 27.

I thought that was a meme Certainly wouldn't use it as a "rule".

 

[arknor]

If a 20-year-old woman finds her ideal match in a 40-year-old bloke, does it matter if it's normal or not?

"Normal" means different things in different societies anyhow. I'm not sure how strongly "normal" in this country corresponds to "moral" or "objectively the correct way for all people".

if that 40 year old was purposely targeting people of that age range then I'd say it makes it wrong.
if they just happened to meet and get along then I guess that's different.

but it could be considered predatory behaviour by people who are controlling.

no doubt a lot easier to get someone around 17-20 to do what you want than it is someone closer to your own age.

 

[Mr Badger]

And here is where the media are trying to get into your head...


He's 61 now, he wasn't at the time, she's 38 now, 17 at the time, he was 40, yet there's no mention of her age now, but there is his, I wonder why...

However, if he did in fact know she was sex-trafficed then there's an issue, proving that should be the crux of the case, if they can't prove that, then the fact that he allegedly had sex with her multiple times in different countries, and nobody else (unknown) then it could be argued that he was under the impression that they were friends with benefits as/when they met. If he was, and can be proven to have been, sleeping with other girls at the same events then he has less of a leg to stand on.

Didn't Andrew state that he couldn't recall ever meeting Virginia Giuffre? Along with some weird stuff about his not being able to sweat? Might have painted himself into a corner regarding switching to pass it off as consensual sex between adults that knew each other, rather than the picture of her being a trafficked minor that was coerced/offered up to him.

 

[Trig]

Didn't Andrew state that he couldn't recall ever meeting Virginia Giuffre? Along with some weird stuff about his not being able to sweat? Might have painted himself into a corner regarding switching to pass it off as consensual sex between adults that knew each other, rather than the picture of her being a trafficked minor that was coerced/offered up to him.

Oh aye, he's come out with some right corkers and has made more of a mess by doing that interview than if he had just STFU..

Personally, this happened 20/21 years ago, and I doubt either of them has clear enough memories of the night to paint an accurate picture, yeah she was young and he should have known better but how many young girls (and guys) would do anything to get close to someone famous, he could just have been taking advantage of a situation and his position, its how you see all these old wrinkly rich guys with hot AF girls hanging off of their arms..

 

[Jean-F]

It may not have legal or scientific standing, but there is a generally known calculation of half your age plus seven.

For a 40 year old that gives a lower age limit of 27.

Jesus wept, so if a single guy of 38 is in a bar, socialising with friends, and in the course of the evening finds himself talking to an attractive woman who is happy to be in his company and they’re enjoying an intelligent conversation, at the same time that he thinks, “this seems to be going fine, maybe I’ll invite her back to my place for a drink”, does he also have to think, ‘Oh Christ, what will I do if she’s only 25?”
Speaking as someone who on rare occasions at 31 ended the night with 18, 19, or 20 y.o. women, providing it was patently obvious that they had mature minds, and were sufficiently compos mentis to willingly join in the fun, I just enjoyed the moment.

 

[Mr Badger]

Jesus wept, so if a single guy of 38 is in a bar, socialising with friends, and in the course of the evening finds himself talking to an attractive woman who is happy to be in his company and they’re enjoying an intelligent conversation, at the same time that he thinks, “this seems to be going fine, maybe I’ll invite her back to my place for a drink”, does he also have to think, ‘Oh Christ, what will I do if she’s only 25?”
Speaking as someone who on rare occasions at 31 ended the night with 18, 19, or 20 y.o. women, providing it was patently obvious that they had mature minds, and were sufficiently compos mentis to willingly join in the fun, I just enjoyed the moment.

You should offer your services to Andrew's defence team.

 

[Freakbro]

At a slight tangent to this, but something I hadn't heard of, was 'Baby Groupies' (12 to 16 years olds) and all the big names in Rock in the 70s.
Of course no one gave a flying fig as the bands made a hell of a lot of money for everyone and that it was apparently consensual.
Still, just goes to show what a lot of high status individuals think was/is perfectly fine and dandy if they know or think they can get away with it.
Ready those old LP's for the bonfire as we've all been listening to nonces for years it would seem...

Bill Wyman, of The Rolling Stones fame, was 47 when he started dating Mandy Smith who was 13 at the time and that was in 1986! Its always amazed me how he got a pass on that one.

 

[Destination]

18 on all three counts. It'll certainly be immoral and possible sugar daddy element to it. But at that point, the state determines they are of age to be classified as an adult and therefore can make their own decisions.

Law in the UK states 16, as long as you are not in a position of authority over the 'child'.
Personally I don't think this is a good thing, but that is our law.
If the Andrew accusation occurred here, she wouldn't have been underage at age 17, nor if it had occurred in some other US states.

I find it interesting his legal team seem to be quoting some clandestine agreement between the girl and Andrew from 2009 as a defence.
It'll be interesting to know if she does a Rose McGowan style thing, and throws out the agreement and publicises the content.

 

[Destination]

Bill Wyman, of The Rolling Stones fame, was 47 when he started dating Mandy Smith who was 13 at the time and that was in 1986! Its always amazed me how he got a pass on that one.

Yup, wasn't she the one hit all the front pages dressed at age 16 in a transparent waterproof coat with no top under, and they all published the pictures and thought nothing of it.
#dirtyoldmen

 

[Ayahuasca]

Bill Wyman, of The Rolling Stones fame, was 47 when he started dating Mandy Smith who was 13 at the time and that was in 1986! Its always amazed me how he got a pass on that one.

There are countless cases in the celebrity world, he wasn’t even the only one in the Stones with question marks over some of his sexual escapades.

 

[Mekrel]

Law in the UK states 16, as long as you are not in a position of authority over the 'child'.
Personally I don't think this is a good thing, but that is our law.
If the Andrew accusation occurred here, she wouldn't have been underage at age 17, nor if it had occurred in some other US states.

I find it interesting his legal team seem to be quoting some clandestine agreement between the girl and Andrew from 2009 as a defence.
It'll be interesting to know if she does a Rose McGowan style thing, and throws out the agreement and publicises the content.

Unless I'm mistaken, I thought the settlement was between Virginia and Epstein?

 

[Semple]

Law in the UK states 16, as long as you are not in a position of authority over the 'child'.
Personally I don't think this is a good thing, but that is our law.
If the Andrew accusation occurred here, she wouldn't have been underage at age 17, nor if it had occurred in some other US states.

I find it interesting his legal team seem to be quoting some clandestine agreement between the girl and Andrew from 2009 as a defence.
It'll be interesting to know if she does a Rose McGowan style thing, and throws out the agreement and publicises the content.

*sigh* have you skipped the last half of the thread? No-one is discussing the age of consent, we're all well aware it's 16.

Foxeye was asking opinions on what people considered the youngest age a 40/50/60 year old could sleep with being acceptable.