I realised my post in response to you last night wasn't exactly helpful Kwango, so sorry, I was tired. I'll try to be a bit more useful and insightful to your response!
sorry, I 'm probably not putting my point across properly. firstly I understand it's not a CS, BF or COD game and secondly I get that it is not a 'solo' game
Firstly, I would take the stance of not comparing this to any other game available on the public market. If it were to be compared to anything, I'd suggest the Real Virtuality engine-driven products such as VBS (Virtual Battlespace Systems) made by Bohemia. These are not games, they are simulators used by military forces around the world. Now Project Reality is
never going to match the quality that these systems have, but what it aims to do is bring that feel of "reality" to the public domain to allow gamers a chance to experience it. Project Reality is not a game and should not be considered one. It is not designed to be easy. It is not designed with "fun" as a forethought - it's down to the playerbase to enjoy themselves whilst playing it.
But you don't have to have slow clunky movement to achieve that.
it's this style of 'realistic' gameplay I have the issue with
I get where you're coming from with this, and in part I agree with you because I get quite annoyed with the clunkiness at times. However, this is something that was added very early-days in the development of PR to drag it away from the movement systems used by most mainstream shooters. It doesn't want you to be running around willy-nilly without any repercussions. The slowness of the movement is not that far out of line with reality when you are carrying a full patrol kit - you certainly will not be moving fast when moving around a town, you aren't ever going to be able to sprint anything faster than a lame dog, and you certainly aren't going to be able to jump high, far, or often with the weight of the kit you would be carrying. The "weight" that this is simulating is designed to make you really consider you movements - can you make it across this clearing before being bogged down by suppressive fire? Is it worth sprinting through friendly lines when unknown territory is right around the corner?
that and the feeling that a lot of folks are being brainwashed almost into believing they are playing a good game on the grounds they have to play it with their mates.
With the following that PR has and the dedication of its fans, a lot of people you talk to in the community will come across as die-hard fanboys, I will not argue that point. But a lot of these players have been following the mod for many years and have stuck with it through the good times and the bad times. The entire PR playerbase is one big community and they look out for each other because they care (possibly a little bit too much) about the development and direction it is going in. The game can be enjoyable by yourself, but you have to find a play-style or approach that you want to do. This will
never be to the tune of joining a game, picking up a machine gun and sitting on top of a hill mowing down wave upon wave of enemy forces, because that would
never happen in real life.
I also get that it's not a solo game. but why can a game not have a degree of fun if you are on your own, and by on your own I don't literally mean a lone wolf running round a'la COD I like a game that challenges me, I like a game that improves on itself and the enjoyment I get from it if I make the effort to work as a team. but this does none of the above. it forces you down a gameplay path, one very specific gameplay path and it does it in a very poorly executed format.
Following on the above, lonewolfing is simply not a done thing. In a real combat situation you would not have one soldier running out of a base, into the horizon going gun-ho. As I talked about in the Squad thread, having a good reaction time and great aim will not get you far in this game if you play as an individual. All it takes is for one shooter to keep you suppressed whilst another flanks and around and deals with you. No amount of aim can prevent that from happening. This is how it promotes / encourages teamwork, albeit rather forcibly. You say it forces you down a game path and that you don't like that. If that is your view on it then I genuinely don't believe there is anything I can explain or say to you that will change that viewpoint. Yes, the game's play-style is very focussed and linear in that it needs to be played a certain way; but that is because, as mentioned earlier, this is not a game for an individual. This is a game for a team. No one thing that you accomplish yourself will win or lose a match (with the exception of losing heavy assets on stacked maps). As an infantryman, you are quite literally meat for the grinder. The enjoyment you glean from that is down to you. Personally, I love leading a squad that uses good communication through towns on Insurgency maps. I love setting up buddy partners so that every man has someone to look out for. I love working with our Commander and other squads to work towards a common goal. The sense of achievement you get from it when a tactic or big manoeuvre works is unrivalled in my opinion.
you can't say that a game is a good game because the devs have intentionally borked the control and movement system to make it more difficult, that's just ridiculous.
that's like a car manufacturer intentionally selling a car with 2 of it's wheel buckled because it will make you appreciate and focus your driving better.
what you've actually highlighted is a lazy, broken way to make a game more challenging and the sad thing is people are buying into it.
I kind of hinted towards this above but I'll expand here. The controls aren't broken. They appear clunky, but you need to bear in mind that the controls system was added intentionally. In short, it gets rid of a lot of the run-and-gun mentality that other games have brought in to shooters (I'm looking at you Call of Duty). The other side to it is that the development team have had to work with a very old engine. I've said it before but it really is something that is important to remember. They have near-enough rewritten 80% of the game-code from Battlefield 2. That is no small task, especially when the source code was
never released. They have built this mod from the ground up, starting with nothing. They
can't make the game they want on the engine, but they've done their damned hardest to replicate what they want to do. Those of the developers that are keen to take it further have moved on to Squad. This was a path that has been discussed for years, and for them to finally do it is, in my eyes, fantastic news and the right decision.
I would bet you a pretty penny if EA realised this game, instead of a bunch of modders it would get ripped to shreds. I'd also bet if EA were releasing Squad and it comes out as I expect (PR1 reskinned) it would get torn a new one also. but we've been feed this/brainwashed into thinking because this is a mod, made by gamers for gamers it must be good and we cannot think otherwise.
If EA released any game it will get slated no matter what. I subscribe to that view point too; they are a despicable company that have no interest in making or publishing games, they are solely in it for the money. Squad will be PR reskinned; but it will also add much more freedom for the developers to do as they wish. The Unreal engine is so incredibly versatile they will be able to craft the game exactly how they wish down to every single detail. It will be a long development road but with the additional funding they will be getting via Kickstarter, it should help speed things up. I would implore you to not disregard Squad because of your preconceptions of it as a result of Project Reality as there will be some major differences between the two. That being said, the fundamentals of the two will be near identical. With the large number of YouTubers and Streamers being involved with Squad, I'm very sceptical that it will stick to its Project Reality roots and be dumbed down to aid the masses; however we have Melbo there to keep them in toe and ensure this doesn't happen!
i'll gracefully bow out, as I can't see that anyone will ever convince me that this is anything other than a case of mass gaming brainwash and I don't want to bog down the thread for the guys that enjoy it. I just feel sad that the gaming community just seem to be getting conned from all directions and we suck it up and make excuses and defend poor games, whether those are from the big dev studios and the smaller ones - it's still the same
Massive kudos to you for being civil, it's a rarity on these forums by-and-large. I obviously can't speak the entire community that plays PR, but in my mind there isn't any brainwashing going on. The community has stuck to the mod because they agree with what has been developed and included, not because it has been forced upon them. The developers are
very active within the community and listen to a lot feedback via their forums and from the larger gaming communities as a whole. If changes to the game are made and they aren't warmly received by the playerbase, they do their utmost to mitigate those changes or even remove them as has happened in the past.
By all means I'd understand if you uninstalled and didn't want to play the game again, it has a very niche appeal. Heck, I'd even say it's an easily-accessible version of the way ArmA should be played. But if you do want to give it another try, keep an eye out for me. I'll usually be on either the PRTA-EU or American servers with the name Benneh. Give me a shout if you see me and I'll do my best to get you involved to try and see it from eyes.
There's also a lot more stuff I wanted include above, but I'm incredibly hungry and still half asleep. To summarise: it's the real definition of a team game.
)
oh, and your find that a lot of people that say they dont like PR or think it is rubbish, is because its just to hard for them, you got to put your time into this game.
