Proposed Duty on vaping products

[Removed User 345456]

I think you're wrong.

No difference driving to any shop that sells cheap booze either.

I think you're wrong.

Shops that are open 24/7 aren't as plentiful/close to everyones houses everywhere across the uk unlike petrol stations.

And again my point is the fact a petrol station has no need to be selling booze... It's a petrol station, you go there to use the toilet/refuel/food and drive on.
A 24/7 shop selling booze, is purpose built to do just that, a petrol station isn't.

Either way neither need to be selling booze 24/7. It's just encouraging being an alky/drink driving/scum hanging about on streets harrassing people/being pricks.

 

[tonys]

I highly doubt most drink drivers have been buying booze in the petrol station and then necking it before driving on. Most drink drivers will be drinking at home or friends or bars etc and then driving home.

I doubt it aswell but why put temptation there?

 

[Removed User 345456]

I doubt it aswell but why put temptation there?

I never said they were necking it before driving home though? I'm surprised he hasn't ever seen/heard of them drinking on the road though, that's a favourite in any traffic police video, it's often done in the day as well due to them thinking they won't get stopped.

 

[tonys]

Sorry what?

It's 'pita' having to constantly buy lighters/filters/cigs/papers/backy, I'll take changing a coil in a 3 seconds and filling my tank up every couple of hours if that over faffing about rolling or buying stuff or the cigs constantly multiple times a week...

Plus you can literally order juice/batteries/vapes/mods/coils/tanks/everything to make your own juice, to your own door/through your letterbox and just leave a spare coil/bottle of juice/battery in your pocket/car - all of which can be smaller than a box of cigs/pouch of backy etc...

Hardly effort is it.

Always depends on what you view as a pita.

 

[Removed User 345456]

Always depends on what you view as a pita.

For me less is more, as aforementioned, I just mix 2L at a time, simply pouring nic/premix into a pre filled on delivery flavour bottle, and i'm good for 6+ months, buy coils in bulk, already have a spare battery in the car, 2 in the house, leave a coil/10ml juice bottle in the car or my pocket, vape takes 30mins with usb-c fast charge and lasts ages, and it only costs me £12.50 a month, win win.

I'll take that over paying stupid amounts to a shop and constantly having to go there/carry a load of bulky stuff in my pocket, or have to roll my own every time I want one, or sit rolling loads each day.

 

[tonys]

For me less is more, as aforementioned, I just mix 2L at a time, simply pouring nic/premix into a pre filled on delivery flavour bottle, and i'm good for 6+ months, buy coils in bulk, already have a spare battery in the car, 2 in the house, leave a coil/10ml juice bottle in the car or my pocket, vape takes 30mins with usb-c fast charge and lasts ages, and it only costs me £12.50 a month, win win.

I'll take that over paying stupid amounts to a shop and constantly having to go there/carry a load of bulky stuff in my pocket, or have to roll my own every time I want one, or sit rolling loads each day.

If that's what you want, you can do it, nobody else's concern

 

[Removed User 345456]

If that's what you want, you can do it, nobody else's concern

Yep.

I just thought it was strange to make out the thing that's actually simpler/smaller to carry/easier to maintain/use was a burden.

 

[gingergundog]

Sorry what?

It's 'pita' having to constantly buy lighters/filters/cigs/papers/backy, I'll take changing a coil in a 3 seconds and filling my tank up every couple of hours if that over faffing about rolling or buying stuff or the cigs constantly multiple times a week...

Plus you can literally order juice/batteries/vapes/mods/coils/tanks/everything to make your own juice, to your own door/through your letterbox and just leave a spare coil/bottle of juice/battery in your pocket/car - all of which can be smaller than a box of cigs/pouch of backy etc...

Hardly effort is it.

Calm down

In my opinion its more of a faff than smoking, I enjoyed rolling up, the smell of it...it was never an inconvenience for me. I also smoked straights which is even easier for someone if they didn't like having to roll one up.

As you said juice/batteries/vapes/mods/coils/tanks, all that bs. Going out all day and/or night I might have to take a spare battery, some spare juice(that might leak)…personally I think carrying a pouch/box of cigs and a lighter less of a burden.

 

[Sone]

I used vaping to give up. Slowly worked my way down the nicotine strengths and then mixed 0% with the lowest until I was basically nicotine free, at that point I just stopped vaping and it was painless. I can't imagine vaping is harmless, you are taking chemicals deep into your lungs and holding it for a couple of seconds. As a way to give up smoking though its fantastic.

Using a similar method and down to the 1% at the minute. The duty does seem a little high as for me one of the big advantages was worse case if i failed it still saved me money on smoking.

 

[Removed User 345456]

Calm down

In my opinion its more of a faff than smoking, I enjoyed rolling up, the smell of it...it was never an inconvenience for me. I also smoked straights which is even easier for someone if they didn't like having to roll one up.

As you said juice/batteries/vapes/mods/coils/tanks, all that bs. Going out all day and/or night I might have to take a spare battery, some spare juice(that might leak)…personally I think carrying a pouch/box of cigs and a lighter less of a burden.

I am calm?

What are you talking about? I never said I took a spare tank? I said I take the vape+some juice and leave a spare coil in my car/pocket (which is tiny).
The battery is another name for mod, and the tank attaches to the battery, and the coil lives in the tank? So it's 1 piece when assembled.

How is taking a small vape and a tiny 10ml bottle of juice in my pocket a big deal? Size wise it's like having 2 lighters in your pocket? Way smaller than a pouch of backy/lighter or box of cigs+lighter.

Never had juice leak in my pocket? It has a seal/child locking lid so can't just undo in my pocket?

I've never once ran all 3 of the tiny vapes I use out, even when out for 18 hours, and at worst I could charge it at a mates/work/in the car in 30mins thanks to usb-c fast charge, whilst using the other one, hardly an issue?

 

[cheesefest]

The govt needs to restrict shops selling vapes. Should only be sold at retailers who already sell tobacco products and vape shops.

Why on earth do shops like Poundland, Iceland sell vapes?

Disposable vapes have a purpose- if a vapes leaves their vape at home or loses charge.

Drop the kiddy flavours - Rainbow bubble gum, Unicorn Shake etc.

Could go into black vapes with different colours for the writing

 

[b0rn2sk8]

I'm surprised at the opposition to this to be honest. As for the person peddling the 'controlling the population' line, put down the tin foil.

As someone who doesn't smoke or vape, I find it particularly unpleasant being near people who are. It's pretty gross getting a face full of vapour, particularly the stuff that is heavily flavoured.

Does everyone remember when the 'do gooders' kicked off about sweets and chocolate at show tills and supermarket checkouts and now there are talks of junk food advertising bans before the watershed.

Now those shelves are stocked with 'healthy' very high calorie protein bars (were talking bars with calorie content which makes a mars bar look like slimfast), nuts (which again are very high calorie per gram) and the best of all, a metric done of disposable and regular vapes. It's actually ridiculous how much worse it is now at the shop checkouts but heaven forbid there be a roll of fruit pastels near the till.

The govt needs to restrict shops selling vapes. Should only be sold at retailers who already sell tobacco products and vape shops.

Why on earth do shops like Poundland, Iceland sell vapes?

Disposable vapes have a purpose- if a vapes leaves their vape at home or loses charge.

Drop the kiddy flavours - Rainbow bubble gum, Unicorn Shake etc.

Could go into black vapes with different colours for the writing

100% this apart from the disposable point, they are horrific for the environment and worse for the refuse supply chain as those that do dispose of them tend to just check them in the bin. Their embedded batteries are constantly catching fire and burning the rubbish around them and it's causing all sorts of problems for waste management companies.

 

[tonys]

The govt needs to restrict shops selling vapes. Should only be sold at retailers who already sell tobacco products and vape shops.

Why on earth do shops like Poundland, Iceland sell vapes?

Disposable vapes have a purpose- if a vapes leaves their vape at home or loses charge.

Drop the kiddy flavours - Rainbow bubble gum, Unicorn Shake etc.

Could go into black vapes with different colours for the writing

I agree to an extent, you don't need disposable vapes. It's totally unnecessary as it's an eco problem like people have already said, it is a single use device just like single use plastics

 

[Removed User 345456]

The flavours thing isn't relevant though, you can get booze that barely tastes of booze with silly things like toffee/caramel/apple/pear etc etc flavoured vodka that's iirc like 20% and you can't taste the vodka - I hate vodka and tried this as I didn't believe my ex, and yeah just like drinking some weird toffee drink - that stuff would easily influence teens to drink it over the savage normal taste of disgusting vodka, so if we're going to ban flavours on vape liquid, then that should apply to everything, including beer/spirits tv adverts/online adverts/shop window displays, you name it booze is everywhere, along with being glamorised in tv/film, unlike smoking is these days.

So if we're going to get that silly about it, it has to apply to every 'influence'.

At the end of the day these are things for adults, not kids or teens. Just like booze/cigs are, all of which have always had the same issue with underage use, I find it hilarious that everyone selectively forgets this is still an issue and skategoats vapes because they're newer to market.

I totally however agree regarding all this cheap knock off replica dangerous exploding battery vapes/one time once vapes, it is just a waste of materials and creating waste.

It's ironic considering how we're sposed to be all green these days and saving the planet yet every country allows this tat to be knocked out in China and sold over here and pushed for profit/sale wherever possible to be sold/advertised! But greed is greed I guess!

 

[slinxy]

I've been a vaper for over 10 years, I've was very active in the vape scene.
There was lots of forums, fb groups and local/national meets.. the buzz of it has died down somewhat, with lot's of "groups" no longer exists.

I do agree with the taxation on vaping products.. I just think it needs to be more clearly thought out.

(TPD) Tobacco Product Directive came in a couple of years back, it was based on decade old EU research and consultancy and at that point we all kinda knew that they was forcing people to buy only 10ml bottles to make it easiler to tax in future.

Anyway; we mainly have two groups of vapers now a days, the old school smokers who vape to stay of the cigs. Some of those including myself see it as a hobby too.. like how some smokers collect zippos... for someone not into the "vape scene" you would be mind blown in how much some of the "high end" devices cost and how much of a demand there is for certain items that are made in low production numbers. some old school smokers have successfully used vaping devices to quit smoking all together.

The other groups are the ones that never smoked before or ones that wasn't addicted to nicotine. They should be discouraged from taking up the habbit.. some do it cos they think it's cool; I saw a group of 7ish year old arguing about taking turns on "a vape", some do it to get a buzz; like the social smoker... heck I've even heard of someone starting vaping to lose weight; but it was always a ****head. lol

The main issue is that all the products required to make e-liquid is freely available over the counter as it is required to make other products, if the governement can't stop the sales of the items to minors how are they going to police the tax law, it will lead to more blackmarket vapes hitting the streets.

My solution is much more simple; stores that sell vaping hardware need to have a license, which they pay for. Then it's up to those stores to recoupe the cost back with the sales of items. Stealth tax but it would mean that the local pound shop won't have a vape counter, my local Aquarium won't sell "vapes".. yes this will force a lot of smaller vape shops to close but believe me; a lot of them don't know what they are talking about anyway, you're better off paying the premium and using a store that knows the trade.

100% disposal vapes should be ban, no smoker leaves the house without their cigs and lighter.. no vaper leaves their house without a full tank and battery. Some like myself will always carry at least two with us as we are dependant on it. Heck I have spares in the car... and if you forget yours, then you're stupid and deserve to suffer, like I have from time to time.

I was stopped by customs at the air port this year as they wonder why I was carrying so much vaping gear.. they laugh and told me that they sell this stuff in their country now and I didn't have to come with a bag full of stuff. lol

Taxing based on nic levels is silly way to do it, there are other nicotine based products like patches and inhaler... and taxing 0mg flavor juice?? is that not just a hookah?

Just a FYI; you can get fine for vaping in the streets if a PCSOs deems that your "cloudz" are anti-social behaviour... I saw a chav getting handed a ticket the other week when I was in Manchester City Centre, I only noticed as he was trying to point out that I was vaping and walking at the same time. I just looked at them with that "Try me!" look and carried on..

 

[tonys]

I've been a vaper for over 10 years, I've was very active in the vape scene.
There was lots of forums, fb groups and local/national meets.. the buzz of it has died down somewhat, with lot's of "groups" no longer exists.

I do agree with the taxation on vaping products.. I just think it needs to be more clearly thought out.

(TPD) Tobacco Product Directive came in a couple of years back, it was based on decade old EU research and consultancy and at that point we all kinda knew that they was forcing people to buy only 10ml bottles to make it easiler to tax in future.

Anyway; we mainly have two groups of vapers now a days, the old school smokers who vape to stay of the cigs. Some of those including myself see it as a hobby too.. like how some smokers collect zippos... for someone not into the "vape scene" you would be mind blown in how much some of the "high end" devices cost and how much of a demand there is for certain items that are made in low production numbers. some old school smokers have successfully used vaping devices to quit smoking all together.

The other groups are the ones that never smoked before or ones that wasn't addicted to nicotine. They should be discouraged from taking up the habbit.. some do it cos they think it's cool; I saw a group of 7ish year old arguing about taking turns on "a vape", some do it to get a buzz; like the social smoker... heck I've even heard of someone starting vaping to lose weight; but it was always a ****head. lol

The main issue is that all the products required to make e-liquid is freely available over the counter as it is required to make other products, if the governement can't stop the sales of the items to minors how are they going to police the tax law, it will lead to more blackmarket vapes hitting the streets.

My solution is much more simple; stores that sell vaping hardware need to have a license, which they pay for. Then it's up to those stores to recoupe the cost back with the sales of items. Stealth tax but it would mean that the local pound shop won't have a vape counter, my local Aquarium won't sell "vapes".. yes this will force a lot of smaller vape shops to close but believe me; a lot of them don't know what they are talking about anyway, you're better off paying the premium and using a store that knows the trade.

100% disposal vapes should be ban, no smoker leaves the house without their cigs and lighter.. no vaper leaves their house without a full tank and battery. Some like myself will always carry at least two with us as we are dependant on it. Heck I have spares in the car... and if you forget yours, then you're stupid and deserve to suffer, like I have from time to time.

I was stopped by customs at the air port this year as they wonder why I was carrying so much vaping gear.. they laugh and told me that they sell this stuff in their country now and I didn't have to come with a bag full of stuff. lol

Taxing based on nic levels is silly way to do it, there are other nicotine based products like patches and inhaler... and taxing 0mg flavor juice?? is that not just a hookah?

Just a FYI; you can get fine for vaping in the streets if a PCSOs deems that your "cloudz" are anti-social behaviour... I saw a chav getting handed a ticket the other week when I was in Manchester City Centre, I only noticed as he was trying to point out that I was vaping and walking at the same time. I just looked at them with that "Try me!" look and carried on..

7yrs old, jesus my granddaughter is 7in April and I couldn't imagine her vaping. Yes probably by 14 or so, as I started smoking at 14. Good points all round

 

[tangey]

Given that every small town has had vape shops pop up on every corner, one assumes that there is serious money to be made. Which means there is good chunk of tax to come from it too.

 

[platinum87]

How do you make your own? Do you just buy the carrier liquid and add flavours to suit your taste? To be honest the smell of some of them is so sickly sweet as to be off putting.

I buy a bottle of flavor, which is 1L capacity, filled with 200ml of flavor, A bottle of pure VG, and nicotine shots, i put the correct amount of nicotine shots (16x 10ml bottles to make 3mg... Yes its annoying), Then fill up VG to the top.

The taste and smell is something you get used too, everyone elses vapes smell nice, i cannot really smell my own, its random people saying it smells nice. But im not going to change flavor tbh, waste of time.

I make mine in bulk twice a year.
It costs me £76 to make 2 litres of it, so that's what 38p per 10ml?
And I have stuff left over to go towards the next batch, 2 litres lasts me around 6 months, so call it £150 a year ala £12.50 a month, and I rinse it when driving or at home watching a film/tv, so 2 litres would last me way way longer if I wanted to.

I have stopped for a long time, many times over the years, but I always just miss it, I like that it doesn't make my hands/breath/clothes smell, and doesn't seem to do me any damage nor give me chest infections like smoking did, I don't feel it's bad having something to enjoy whilst driving/watching stuff at home.

I also think vaping and smoking are 2 different types of enjoyment, smoking can make you feel rough, I personally didn't tend to have more than 1 an hour on average, nor would I want to, you also don't get the same 'factor' out of having a vape, IDK it's different, it's hard to explain, but it doesn't 'replace' smoking to me, it's just an alternative that I enjoy actually more so. I do like the fact however I've never wanted to go back to smoking, nor do I miss it, I hate the smell of it and never did like that, especially cigs.

Give or take £100 for 2L which is the amount i make, which lasts me around 3 months at a guess.

Can be done for much cheaper i am overpaying for nicotine, however i have just gone back to the original website i ordered nicotine. 1L of 72MG nicotine for £55, enough to make 20L of eliquid.

When vaping entered sub-ohm phase, circa 2014, its when it became a good alternative to smoking. You need throat hit, the early vapes were too weak, sort of like the disposable vapes are now, they are too weak.

 

[tonys]

I buy a bottle of flavor, which is 1L capacity, filled with 200ml of flavor, A bottle of pure VG, and nicotine shots, i put the correct amount of nicotine shots (16x 10ml bottles to make 3mg... Yes its annoying), Then fill up VG to the top.

The taste and smell is something you get used too, everyone elses vapes smell nice, i cannot really smell my own, its random people saying it smells nice. But im not going to change flavor tbh, waste of time.


Give or take £100 for 2L which is the amount i make, which lasts me around 3 months at a guess.

Can be done for much cheaper i am overpaying for nicotine, however i have just gone back to the original website i ordered nicotine. 1L of 72MG nicotine for £55, enough to make 20L of eliquid.

When vaping entered sub-ohm phase, circa 2014, its when it became a good alternative to smoking. You need throat hit, the early vapes were too weak, sort of like the disposable vapes are now, they are too weak.

Thanks for the explanation but as an ex smoker it just seems to me to be a faff, even though I used to roll my own cigs .

 

[Removed User 345456]

How do you make your own? Do you just buy the carrier liquid and add flavours to suit your taste? To be honest the smell of some of them is so sickly sweet as to be off putting.

Lol I covered this above in my post haha, takes minutes if that. Just buy a bottle with the flavour in, add the amount of nic from another bottle, add the premixed concentrate, shake, leave for 2-4 weeks, done.

I buy a bottle of flavor, which is 1L capacity, filled with 200ml of flavor, A bottle of pure VG, and nicotine shots, i put the correct amount of nicotine shots (16x 10ml bottles to make 3mg... Yes its annoying), Then fill up VG to the top.

The taste and smell is something you get used too, everyone elses vapes smell nice, i cannot really smell my own, its random people saying it smells nice. But im not going to change flavor tbh, waste of time.


Give or take £100 for 2L which is the amount i make, which lasts me around 3 months at a guess.

Can be done for much cheaper i am overpaying for nicotine, however i have just gone back to the original website i ordered nicotine. 1L of 72MG nicotine for £55, enough to make 20L of eliquid.

When vaping entered sub-ohm phase, circa 2014, its when it became a good alternative to smoking. You need throat hit, the early vapes were too weak, sort of like the disposable vapes are now, they are too weak.

It only costs me £76 delivered for 2Litres worth, with half a litre of whatever desired % of pg/vg mix left over, as I buy 2 litres of it as it's sold in litre bottles, and I have 80ml of nic left over for the next round.

The next time costs me £66 IIRC as I already have half a litre left of the pg/vg mix left over.

So as I say costs what £10-12.50 a month and 2 litres even going OTT on the usage lasts at least 6 months with a 0.8ohm coil, I just use a simple £30 Joyetech pod vape now (that only costs £20 on ebay now as I bought a spare recently), no more massive mods/tanks/batteries I used to use that'd rinse the death out of the juice, the more cloud the less flavour, learnt that early on, and even decent big mods with good flavour still will rinse it even on a 0.5ohm coil. Pointless.
I use about 10-15ml a day at worst now and a coil every 2-3 weeks, which cost me £13 for 5 which I buy in bulk every 6 months and get a bulk buy discount.

I've been doing it 11 years IIRC. I also from time to time sort mates out with 100ml here and there so it pays for itself, so again pointless quitting when it does me no harm versus the savage chest infections I used to get off cigs, and I walk 5-10 miles everyday and ride bikes and it hasn't hindered my fitness what so ever, yet smoking + riding a bike or running = forget it! Go figure, and I use this a lot when at home or driving, more than rollies, and again zero issue.

You have to be VERY careful where you buy juice/ingredients from however, as there is a lot of American companies that bash it with this chemical I forget the name of, to bump up the flavour which is expensive, so they don't have to use as much #greed and that is bad for you big time.