PS3 - Cost and release problems due to Blu-ray?
- Thread starter Raider
- Start date
hmm, but if they lose a conservative £200 per console and sell 50million (both extremely conservative estimates).....then that's £10,000,000,000 they'd lose just to get their machine out there! That's a rather imense amount that would probably be better spent on marketing.XPE said:
Halo 3 on four DVDs? I really doubt it. Unless they decided to put 4 or 5 hours of pre-rendered video into the game there's no way it would take up that much space. If you ask me there is little need for pre-rendered video with graphics as good as they are on the 360. It would look just as good rendered in real time which would only use a very tiny fraction of the space. Use of FMV in games these days is usually due to laziness of the developers. In most cases the FMV isn't much better quality than in-game graphics and in some cases actually is in game graphics. For example the FMV in Serious Sam 2 is clearly recorded from within the game engine, so why didn't they just render it in real time?
Because a video will look _that_ good on all PC's, where as a PC rendering something on a Pentium 3 wouldn't compare with one rendering on an Athlon64 FX-57.
A video eliminates this.
FMV as in _actual_ FMV isn't down to lazyness. Games like Final Fantasy really do benefit from FMV!
A video eliminates this.
FMV as in _actual_ FMV isn't down to lazyness. Games like Final Fantasy really do benefit from FMV!
Why are the bothering tho.. when this technology has been done for about 3 years now:
http://www.dntb.ro/users/frdbuc/hyper-cdrom/hyper.htm
Hyper-CD-Roms which can hold about 10terabytes per disc.. thats 10,000GB. And it only cost about $30 per disc, which although expensive would soon drop on a mass production basis.
Plus they say the same technology would see a 100 terabyte discwithin 3 years and require no new hardware.
http://www.dntb.ro/users/frdbuc/hyper-cdrom/hyper.htm
Hyper-CD-Roms which can hold about 10terabytes per disc.. thats 10,000GB. And it only cost about $30 per disc, which although expensive would soon drop on a mass production basis.
Plus they say the same technology would see a 100 terabyte discwithin 3 years and require no new hardware.
Yeah I'll admit FF is an exception because square-enix are incredibly good at CGI. Even with very good in-game graphics, the CGI in FF games is still considerably higher quality. But there are some games that do have proper FMV sequences that still aren't very good and in game graphics are arguably of similar quality.NokkonWud said:
I know that it will always look that good despite the hardware it's running on but does it really matter that much? If your playing a game in lower graphics then it won't put you off much if cut-scenes are of the same quality.
Plus on my PC the cut-scenes in SS2 look worse than in-game due to the poor quality encoding
Psyk said:
and i quote from games radar
GAMES RADAR said:
http://www.gamesradar.com/news/default.asp?pagetypeid=2&articleid=38259&subsectionid=2514
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i am just surprised they have halo 3 at a state when it is ready to be fit on disks
Knowing how rushed and bad Halo 2 was and also if it is that far along in a time line then i am surprised it wasnt at E3 with the 360.
But even then i still doubt it is 36 gig in size, MMORPGs dont take up that size.
I mean my EQ2 folder is under 6 gig and that is still got room for furtre hardware.
Also if it is 36 gig then it will still need two HD-DVD's haha m'on then.
Knowing how rushed and bad Halo 2 was and also if it is that far along in a time line then i am surprised it wasnt at E3 with the 360.
But even then i still doubt it is 36 gig in size, MMORPGs dont take up that size.
I mean my EQ2 folder is under 6 gig and that is still got room for furtre hardware.
Also if it is 36 gig then it will still need two HD-DVD's haha m'on then.
t@xman said:
Microsoft lose $136 per xbox 360 and Microsoft hasn’t closed yet, so i think Sony can survive a $200 loss, also your guess was over 5 years of sales in which the price to construct the ps3 will come down, while prices remain the same and the lose will be no where near what you predicted, also think how many DVD's a sold a year now if that was blue ray and Sony makes say 5% for every one sold that will add up to a lot of money.
Also more people will buy Blue-ray players this will not be a lose to Sony and every Blue-ray disk sold with it will be pure profit to them.
XPE, remember MS are massive, their profits in a year are something like 15 times what Sony get (over 10 billion, as opposed to 0.8 billion).
Microsoft can afford to lose $150 per unit sold, Sony on the other hand are likely to end up having to lose about $300 per unit sold if they sell the PS3 at the same price point as the 360, whilst production costs are that much higher.
Also, it's not just 1x $200 + you are talking of millions of $200+ losses, which if you assume that Sony are just about breaking even on the sales of their PS2 at it's current price could see their profits totally wiped out for a while (Sony have not been doing well as a company, and are scraping a profit as it is).
That $200+ loss per unit is going to require the buyer to get a lot of official accessories, or games to make up for it.
comparing DVD's to blu-ray doesn't work - not unless you compare DVD's as they were in 2000 to blu-ray, and in 2000 DVD players were expensivs and they hadn't taken off like they have today.
I honestly cannot see blu-ray or HD-DVD taking off seriously for at least a couple of years, as at the moment the hardware cost is very high, the production costs for replicating the disks is going to be high.
IIRC both HD-DVD and Blu-Ray will cost more to make than even a duel layer, double sided DVD*, and blu-ray is going to require massive amounts of investment in replication machinery whilst HD-DVD abilities can be added to exising replication machinery.
The reason DVD became so popular so fast is because it showed an immediate massive improvement with existing consumer equipment, both HD-DVD and blu-ray won't show an improvement with normal TV's (still what most people have), and won't show a huge improvement in picture quality with a lot of material such as old TV shows.
*Which has a failure rate in production of something like 10X that of deul layer, or double layer disks.
Microsoft can afford to lose $150 per unit sold, Sony on the other hand are likely to end up having to lose about $300 per unit sold if they sell the PS3 at the same price point as the 360, whilst production costs are that much higher.
Also, it's not just 1x $200 + you are talking of millions of $200+ losses, which if you assume that Sony are just about breaking even on the sales of their PS2 at it's current price could see their profits totally wiped out for a while (Sony have not been doing well as a company, and are scraping a profit as it is).
That $200+ loss per unit is going to require the buyer to get a lot of official accessories, or games to make up for it.
comparing DVD's to blu-ray doesn't work - not unless you compare DVD's as they were in 2000 to blu-ray, and in 2000 DVD players were expensivs and they hadn't taken off like they have today.
I honestly cannot see blu-ray or HD-DVD taking off seriously for at least a couple of years, as at the moment the hardware cost is very high, the production costs for replicating the disks is going to be high.
IIRC both HD-DVD and Blu-Ray will cost more to make than even a duel layer, double sided DVD*, and blu-ray is going to require massive amounts of investment in replication machinery whilst HD-DVD abilities can be added to exising replication machinery.
The reason DVD became so popular so fast is because it showed an immediate massive improvement with existing consumer equipment, both HD-DVD and blu-ray won't show an improvement with normal TV's (still what most people have), and won't show a huge improvement in picture quality with a lot of material such as old TV shows.
*Which has a failure rate in production of something like 10X that of deul layer, or double layer disks.
Werewolf said:
i happen to think the same way and dont fell the home cineima markets needs these disks just yet.
i was just thinking from sony point of view, cos lets face it, they r not doing this out of the goodess of there hearts.
also the blue-ray group is big and might have ethier forced sony into it or mayby some other company is healping bare the cost, like i said sony are doing this to make money, but they wouldnt be doing it if they were going to lose money in the long run.
I personally think it's too soon to be trying to push BD / HD DVDs, as I myself have a large collection of DVDs, that will work fine on a BD/HD DVD player, but I don't want to really go out and buy a lot of the re-release titles companies will bring out with that oh so slightly better picture quality.
I think they need to get more HD TVs out there before they worry about HD-DVD, as SD-TVs are really, really not going to show very much difference at all in quality. I personally want a better push for more sound, as I think decent surround Dolby Digital / DTS sound systems make games far more involving and improve the games vastly with a decent TV picture to go with them.
I'm really looking forward to finding out all the technical details of the PS3, especially all its capabilities, as with the theoretical cost of BD systems, I'm interested to see what it can and can't do, and if it will technically be a dissapointment, or a marvel of technology. At the moment I'm leaning to the latter, but there's always that slight chance it could flop in that department.
I think they need to get more HD TVs out there before they worry about HD-DVD, as SD-TVs are really, really not going to show very much difference at all in quality. I personally want a better push for more sound, as I think decent surround Dolby Digital / DTS sound systems make games far more involving and improve the games vastly with a decent TV picture to go with them.
I'm really looking forward to finding out all the technical details of the PS3, especially all its capabilities, as with the theoretical cost of BD systems, I'm interested to see what it can and can't do, and if it will technically be a dissapointment, or a marvel of technology. At the moment I'm leaning to the latter, but there's always that slight chance it could flop in that department.
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As I stated in a previous thread I am almost positive that Sony's choice of making the PS3 Blu-ray compatible from the off will cause problems beyond what they expect. Not to mention the cost issue, if BRD does make the big time and become the format of choice it will have paid Sony to have done this.
Even a May launch of the PS3 is looking optomistic now in Japan. If we see PS3 in Nov/Dec I'll be surprised.
Even a May launch of the PS3 is looking optomistic now in Japan. If we see PS3 in Nov/Dec I'll be surprised.
Journey said:
with what i have already said in this thread about the cell chip and with the problems with the BD-drive, i wouldnt expect to see the ps3 in the UK this year, remember all the problems they had with the psp, thats nothing compared to what they r trying to do with the ps3
I wouldn't worry, a friend of mine is certain that the PS3 will be out by May this year and will sell for £220.....
When I questioned him about this little nugget of useless information he said it must be true because he read it in "Nuts"
When I questioned him about this little nugget of useless information he said it must be true because he read it in "Nuts"
lordrobs said:I wouldn't worry, a friend of mine is certain that the PS3 will be out by May this year and will sell for £220.....
When I questioned him about this little nugget of useless information he said it must be true because he read it in "Nuts"
Nuts! If you're serious about gaming and technology you KNOW where to go!
I don't think everything is clear cut enough to go either way, M$ might get out early with the HD crowd but BD may offer better storage etc....
Anyone who buys a 360 or PS3 to put in an entertainment setup as a movie player needs a rethink, SONY will put the cheapest mass produced unit in there possible, its a fact of business. If I ever want HD/BD I'll buy a dedicated high quality unit like I have for my AV and current DVD player.