PS4. Again!

WingZero30 · 28 May 2011 at 18:27

Klo said:
The trick is of course utilising that extra performance, something you tend to see only a few years into the console cycle, by which time desktop CPU may have caught up and overtaken. And of course, its not just CPU, its GPU as well, with a AMD 6970 able to produce 2.7TFlops in SP and 675GFlops in DP, and I imagine that will increase by the time the PS4 comes out.

Of course, an advantage for consoles is that the hardware stays the same for 5/6/7/8 years, allowing optimisations and the ability to squeeze out all of the extra performance.

True

6990 is already reaching above 5 TFlops in SP and 1.27TFlops in DP. Goes to show that is one monster of a card although it depends on architecture aswell.

w33tab1x · 28 May 2011 at 18:33

Nice concept but not gonna happen is it

but if they did pull it off i would possibly have to buy it just for its look.

WingZero30 · 28 May 2011 at 18:36

wannabedamned said:
The thing I love mainly is the cell processor has been operational since January 2007, And its only now current tech is matching it.

Imagine if people would use it mainstream.

If Cell was a general purpose processor only incorporating PPE it won't do well against majority of desktop CPUs in multi-tasking; as PPE acts more like a core of a desktop CPU and it's performance isn't that great especially in double precision since majority of the Flop calculations carried out by desktop CPUs is double precision .

Intel Burn Test (LinPack) is a classic example of double precision stress test.

However since Cell was designed to be a special processor for gaming, the incorporation of SPEs is where it's strength lies.

I am sure if Intel were to create a gaming specific processor or even AMD for that matter, it will be more powerful than Cell or enhanced Cell.

Shamikebab · 28 May 2011 at 18:41

This thread got uber geeky.

silversurfer · 28 May 2011 at 18:59

The money is in servers not gaming. Google is the worlds 3rd largest computer manufacturer and they do not produce for anyone but themselves

Thats a lot of money for R&D of components that Intel and others no doubt focus on

Pray they go into games next, mobile phones are the closest they get. Might be closer to speculate what chip ARM will develop for 3rd parties to base their systems on.
Years ago they made the Archimedes now its mobile phone design so its possible

Microsoft announced on 5 January 2011 that the next major version of the Windows NT family will include support for ARM processors.

WingZero30 · 28 May 2011 at 19:55

Is it possible that PS4 will also be released in different SKUs instead of just one?

Kreeeee · 28 May 2011 at 20:23

I don't really understand why modular RAM upgrades ala N64 are not implemented. RAM is very cheap now, but it will be cheaper in the future when games need more RAM. Put 1GB in now, and have a module to expand to 2GB dual/quad channel in the future when it is needed to extend the consoles life.

RAM is always the key limiting factor...

Judgeneo · 28 May 2011 at 20:54

Kreeeee said:
I don't really understand why modular RAM upgrades ala N64 are not implemented. RAM is very cheap now, but it will be cheaper in the future when games need more RAM. Put 1GB in now, and have a module to expand to 2GB dual/quad channel in the future when it is needed to extend the consoles life.

RAM is always the key limiting factor...

What developer is going to make a game that can only be played by people how have upgraded their ram, instead of making a game that everyone can play?

It would be dammed difficult to emulate PS3 games on non cell architecture, and backwards compatibility is a huge admission to make, so its fairly safe to assume that the PS4 will use some upgraded version of cell.
Apart form that, all we can guess at is more ram, more graphics, and a bigger HDD.

Guessing the specs at this stage in the game is absurd when we don't know how far into the development cycle it is, you could be looking at a 2014/2015 launch here.

WingZero30 · 28 May 2011 at 21:03

Judgeneo said:
What developer is going to make a game that can only be played by people how have upgraded their ram, instead of making a game that everyone can play?

It would be dammed difficult to emulate PS3 games on non cell architecture, and backwards compatibility is a huge admission to make, so its fairly safe to assume that the PS4 will use some upgraded version of cell.
Apart form that, all we can guess at is more ram, more graphics, and a bigger HDD.

Guessing the specs at this stage in the game is absurd when we don't know how far into the development cycle it is, you could be looking at a 2014/2015 launch here.

True

I can already sense a consensus developing in this thread on PS4 continuing to use upgraded Cell technology and paying more attention to powerful Gpu and more ram with more HDD.

I think and hope PS4 will mainly go in this direction and backward compatibility will be more easier to implement on cell.

Ofcourse we could expect USB 3.0 but this is secondary issue.

Kreeeee · 28 May 2011 at 21:27

Judgeneo said:
What developer is going to make a game that can only be played by people how have upgraded their ram, instead of making a game that everyone can play?

Exactly the same type of dev that did so on the N64, obviously. It's very ignorant to just assume that all games which utilise it would require it in order to play some form of the game.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ninten...t_of_games_that_support_the_N64_Expansion_Pak

Edit: As with the N64 expansion pack the very few games that required it would have a bundle option with the pack included to make it widely available, but the vast majority simply used it to boost performance.

icehot · 28 May 2011 at 22:38

I really don't get it, why all the excitement about the a PS4 being under way? Of course its under way, just like M$'s next xbox is under way.

Fr0dders · 28 May 2011 at 22:45

icehot said:
I really don't get it, why all the excitement about the a PS4 being under way? Of course its under way, just like M$'s next xbox is under way.

because 3 months ago they denied they'd even thought about it.

WingZero30 · 28 May 2011 at 23:22

icehot said:
I really don't get it, why all the excitement about the a PS4 being under way? Of course its under way, just like M$'s next xbox is under way.

May be for once we can play all console games on Full HD 1080p res instead of the 720p or may be even higher.

Klo · 29 May 2011 at 00:38

icehot said:
I really don't get it, why all the excitement about the a PS4 being under way? Of course its under way, just like M$'s next xbox is under way.

Well as a PC gamer (not bringing the console vs PC discussion), there has been a general consensus among the PC community that due to most games being multi platform, and of course console games selling much more than PC ones, the games are being designed for the weaker console hardware, thus limiting the PC's graphics. For me at least, with a new console, and the better graphics that allows, it would allow an advancement in technology that would hopefully come off in the multi platform games, and improve graphics for the PC and push the limits again for a bit.

biron_w · 29 May 2011 at 01:59

Will we see pay to play games online for PSN with the next system? They banged on about it being free for the PS3 but then brought in PSN+ as it was costing them too much money.

badcompany · 29 May 2011 at 07:53

How much will it cost ? Will it a loss leader for them and will it be hard to code for?

DBT85 · 29 May 2011 at 08:26

badcompany said:
How much will it cost ? Will it a loss leader for them and will it be hard to code for?

I'd take a stab at a) $400, b) maybe a little at first but not nearly as bad as the PS3 and c) probably the same as the PS3.

a) The PS4 will almost certainly use the BD technology which is now orders of magnitude cheaper than it was at PS3 launch. BD tech was a large chunk of the reason the PS3 cost so much. The other massive cost was the development of the Cell chip. Since both are now affordable the price should be much better. Sony can see that a $400/£300 console will sell a lot at launch compared to a $599/£420 one. Selling lots of consoles early is important to persuade developers to develop for that platform and not the old one as they will make more money shooting at a bigger audience.

b) Consoles are a gateway into your wallet so they don't mind maybe losing £50 now if it means you buy 20 games over the next 5 years as they more than make the money back. Ultimately Kaz Hirai will not want to make the same mistakes that Ken Kutaragi made with the PS3 launch

c) If its using an expanded version of the Cell which many assume it will then it'll be similar to coding for the PS3. Its not difficult, just different. Different enough to make it an issue for many developers 4-6 years ago. Now though there are so many people with Cell experience that it really shouldn't be an issue if the PS4 is using Cell at its heart.

WingZero30 · 29 May 2011 at 09:58

http://smarthouse.com.au/Gaming/Industry/F5C6F8A6?page=1

Sony recently moved to buy back the Toshiba Cell factory in Nagasaki for $600 million with some tipping that this will be used to manufacture the processor for both Sony Toshiba and IBM devices.

The new 32nm Cell processor is tipped to be capable of up to 16 SPEs which is twice as fast as the current Cell processor according to IBM leaks

At a recent Sony conference call in Japan the head of the Companies Networked Products & Services division – which develops for the PlayStation brand and Sony PCs hinted that it was working on the PlayStation 4 but would not give any details

"It is no longer thinkable to have a huge initial financial investment like that of the PS3."

So it is becoming increasingly likely that PS4 will continue to use Cell CPU albeit with die shrink and 16 SPEs instead of featuring a brand new processor.

What is also interesting from article is that Intel is also developing a gaming processor for consoles. Now that will be interesting to see if it comes true and how it will fare against enhanced cell.

Scrutinize · 29 May 2011 at 10:28

I wonder which will be first to market again though, the Xbox or PS4? I fear that may sway my decision more than the tech in the PS4. Also price will be a big one. Will we see a price increase over the previous launch prices given inflation and the economy?

Also if PSN is no longer free then that would be a big down side. I really want the PS4 to be epic, I have kept my PS3 longer than any other console.

TheVoice · 29 May 2011 at 10:38

Kreeeee said:
Exactly the same type of dev that did so on the N64, obviously. It's very ignorant to just assume that all games which utilise it would require it in order to play some form of the game.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ninten...t_of_games_that_support_the_N64_Expansion_Pak

Edit: As with the N64 expansion pack the very few games that required it would have a bundle option with the pack included to make it widely available, but the vast majority simply used it to boost performance.

I can't imagine gamers would be happy about being forced to pay potentially £50 or so for a hardware upgrade just to play the game. That the N64 was the last console to do it says everything; they charged extra for everything much like MS do now. I can see your point, and from a "PCs are upgradeable too" point of view it makes sense, but it just doesn't work where consoles are concerned.