QLED vs OLED

Domo said:
It's quite an interesting statement that. I wonder what the dragons would say if you took an OLED into the studio and it was the first time anyone had seen one? They'd probably tell you to get out and stop wasting their time with impractical tech :o:D
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The first time anyone saw one, they were impractical.

Every other TV manufacturer gave up on OLED except for LG, and they still can't get some issues (like burn in) properly fixed. I think OLED is great, but let's not get all misty-eyed about the fact it still has issues that need to be worked out. Like a lot of tech, it makes some things better, and some things worse, which is not always enough to objectively say it's overall a better product. There are technical (as well as licensing) issues why the likes of Samsung still haven't embraced the technology.
 
Steampunk said:
Someone should be able to watch the news channels for a couple of hours without worrying about burn in. Technology is supposed to go forwards, not backwards.



Or maybe to take any burn in problems to outside the warranty period? We've seen plenty of companies do this not as a way of solving a problem, but as a way of reducing their exposure to expensive product failures and recalls. Caveat emptor and all that, as we've already seen manufacturers try to put burn in problems at the feet of the customer, rather than faulty products.



Same for me. I love the PQ of OLED, but I'm not willing to deal with any burn in issues under any circumstances. Even if I am willing to baby a TV, it'll be my wife who pauses a TV show "for a minute" while she pops into the kitchen and does fifteen minutes of cooking. Then I'll have to have a big row about her lack of mechanical sympathy, and deal with an expensive, ruined TV, which I'm not willing to do. Make the technology work and be robust for what it's going to be used for, then maybe I'll spend a couple of grand on it.
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A couple of hours a day, nothing wrong with that, heck I game on my OLED for about 4/5 hours a day

I'm talking about the people who have posted that they got burn in on theirs, then when you ask them their settings etc. they respond with "80+ OLED light setting and sky/cnn news on 7+ hours a day"....... Unless they have a very bright room, they shouldn't be using an OLED light setting anywhere near that high for a SDR signal...... These are the users that have no one to blame but themselves and before people say they shouldn't have to babysit their TVs or use a low brightness, remember the "recommended" luminance calibration for a TV is 120 nits........ For 2017/2018 LG OLEDs, that is about 20/30% OLED light setting iirc....... Anything higher in a semi properly light controlled room is harming the IQ more.

Also, I don't know about other TV brands but LG have a number of things in play (by default) to help for those who pause TV/games etc. i.e. The screen will reduce brightness significantly when no activity happening with the TV and then enter screen saver mode, will run a pixel voltage reset after every 4 hours of use when the TV is in standby mode and as mentioned, pixel shift etc. running.





But yes, once again, it is a "potential" issue, still I rather take that risk than deal with LCDs drawbacks i.e. crap viewing angles, grey blacks, halo'ing/blooming etc.
 
Nexus18 said:
But yes, once again, it is a "potential" issue, still I rather take that risk than deal with LCDs drawbacks i.e. crap viewing angles, grey blacks, halo'ing/blooming etc.
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viewing angles is a weird one. i have a plasma, an IPS, a VA and a TN panel in my home. none of them look bad from any angle. it's very exaggerated the difference it makes IMO.

obviously the plasma and IPS look better in fact flawless at any angle however the TN and VA the biggest difference comes from it being at the wrong height for the viewing experience. stick them at eye level and they look good even at wide viewing angles.

grey blacks is solved by FALD in fact even a lot of edge lit tv's have really good blacks. i should know as i have a panny plasma the GT50 the second last panel ever made in the plasma world the only panel better was the one used in the VT65 and ZT65.

blooming again is solved by FALD.

having owned the best in it's day (panny plasma) i now know a lot of stuff does get exaggerated in reviews. my IPS panel i had someone comment on how good the colours were. yet going off of reviews people say they are the worst tv's to buy.

if you have any mates or family that own a XF90 or superior FALD LCD, you should go and take a look. you will be surprised by how good they are and tbh IMO 99% of people wouldn't appreciate anything an OLED can do better.
 
The best plasma black levels didn't get close to oled and the difference is there in all content, not just dark scenes. I'm a stickler for black levels - kept high level HD crts tvs and monitors until relatively recently for just that reason - and OLED is the first tech to give us that depth back. The real question is how important is that to the user and what compromises are they happy to live with. There's lots of other elements that make up a nice picture and some people are all about motion, eye burning hdr or whatever. For me it's black levels by some margin. Everything, even adverts and crappy quality old broadcast, has a solid depth you don't get with other tech. If I had to pick a negative with OLED it wouldn't be burn in as I've yet to see even a nano second of retention, but blooming. Usually with low quality content, but there in certain scenes nonetheless. If that was fixed i'd struggle to find a single issue.
 
Warbie said:
If I had to pick a negative with OLED it wouldn't be burn in as I've yet to see even a nano second of retention, but blooming. Usually with low quality content, but there in certain scenes nonetheless. If that was fixed i'd struggle to find a single issue.
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I think that's something people don't get yet.
2016 OLED's had significant issues with image retention/burn in where you had to baby sit them to avoid problems.
2017 brought in auto screen cleaning, which helped but burn in could still happen with long periods of static images etc
2018 improved on the screen cleaning, add logo dimming and changed the sub-structure of the pixels to reduce the chance of burn in even further.

Most the complaints and opinions seem to come from 2016 models and 2017 models where people have static images on for long periods of time and do the same thing over and over.
Of course a few lemons will pass through QA but not to a significant degree.

Its not really an issue anymore, just vary your content and don't buy an OLED if you just do the same thing over and over (same game) for hours on end every day.

If you can't deal with being ever so slightly careful, go for QLED.
Its just the nature of the tech, it will never be 100% solved.
R.I.P Plasma :(

In terms of black levels, in a normal lit room, QLED and OLED are identical with QLED pulling ahead due to sheer brightness. In a dark room, OLED still wins but the most recent QLED's are getting close with the dimming function, not quite there yet though.
 
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Warbie said:
The best plasma black levels didn't get close to oled
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to a piece of equipment hooked up to a computer - yes

to the eye - they would be hard to distinguish just based on a fully black screen on both in a normal viewing environment. easier to distinguish in a pitch black room.

you are talking extremely small levels of light output on a plasma on a black output as effectively they are in an "off" state.

it's exaggerated the differences in terms of black levels it was even argued that the ZT was a better tv than first gen OLED's even though they had better blacks

https://www.hdtvtest.co.uk/news/zt-201403233655.htm

so the difference in black levels isn't as big as you make out.

i can't notice the difference unless it's pointed out. on my mates 75 inch sony (XE9405 iirc) it has ridiculous black levels for an LCD and that is because of FALD.

I would argue now that black levels is a mute point when it comes to buying a premium panel for a normal viewing environment. only in pitch black room on a nearly all black scene would you now be able to tell the difference.
 
I think it still comes down to viewing environment for the most part.
Dark room - OLED wins, QLED is almost there with recent dimming advancements, give it another year or two and I would imagine they would be almost identical depending on how good they can get the dimming.
Normal/lit room - QLED wins due to sheer brightness output.
 
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you will never get an unbiased view from someone who owns a product. they have handed over cash for it so they will always be biased towards it to justify the purchase.

black levels in real life usage nowadays on the high end sets just isn't an argument any more. yes a computer can tell the difference.

on lower end screens or IPS and edge lit then also a yes. but not on FALD tv's.
 
Psycho Sonny said:
to a piece of equipment hooked up to a computer - yes
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I've had high end plasma and led (not fald) panels at the same time as high end CRT. The difference was obvious, regardless of room condition. I remember watching tennis on a crappy crt at the local chinese while waiting for some food and thinking it looked noticeably better than on my ST50. And that's the thing - as good as plasma panels got, the blacks were dark grey and there's this very slight flat look to the picture. In dark scenes the detail isn't there. Even more so with LED. Some comes down to viewing conditions and the rest subjectivity. High end fald is better than previous led tech, no doubt, and in some scenes (4k HDR heavy) even better than oled, but in most others it's not. Aside from the rare cases of blooming mentioned above, I have nothing to complain about with OLED. tbh it's more of a relief than a pleasure to watch - for the first time in decades there's this solid, real looking picture that looks good with everything thrown at it.
 
Psycho Sonny said:
black levels in real life usage nowadays on the high end sets just isn't an argument any more. yes a computer can tell the difference.
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Real life usage means a pitch black room for me, where the dimming just isn't good enough (yet)
Its still down to light/dark room at this point in both tech's lifespans.
 
Psycho Sonny said:
is blooming not from edge lit where there is brightness demanded by the screen so it makes the blacks turn grey in that area, etc?
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I'm pretty sure when Bigpig says blooming hes referring to the black areas around a bright portion of any image on the screen at any point on the screen, where the local dimming has a hard time distinguishing the difference due to only so many dimming zones.
The biggest culpret is the black bars on the top and bottom of movies when a light scene is playing and the local dimming is attempting to make them as black as possible but cant due to the zones causing a spillover of light into the black.

Its hard to explain lol

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c9w6A66QJzw
4:24 the space scene shows how the local dimming attempts to make space as dark as possible around the stars (at the cost of making some of them invisible) but when shes spinning a bright light appears in the centre causing the space around it to get lighter due to the dimming not having enough zones. That's technically blooming as the light is "spilling" out from where it should be into the surrounding pixels.
Space scenes are the easiest way to see the effect.
 
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Psycho Sonny said:
is blooming not from edge lit where there is brightness demanded by the screen so it makes the blacks turn grey in that area, etc?
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It is from any form of Local dimming. Falds will still have it but will be better than edge lit. You can also lose detail with local dimming. It's one area were LCD TVs just can't get close to OLEDS.

Saying that I wouldn't have a problem buying a FALD TV. Just some are more expensive than OLEDs
 
If by normal viewing environment you mean a lit/semi-lit room, sure, you wont really see it unless you go looking for it.
Which is where the dark/lit room comes into focus as the main difference between QLED/OLED at this point (the top/most recent models)
 
Yeah, although to be fair it's worse on my 2017 oled than on previous plasma or led panels. It's something that only rears it's head a few times a week though and is negligible compared to other, previous gripes. It's just the tiny thing that stops it being a solid 10/10!
 
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