Associate
Well I didn't mean that one in particular but a lot are, 8h lab for the 2nd bit.. first bit is written
Not done it myself and I don't really plan to unless my employer pays for it 
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Qualifications for IT.
- Thread starter BoomAM
- Start date
Well I didn't mean that one in particular but a lot are, 8h lab for the 2nd bit.. first bit is written
Not done it myself and I don't really plan to unless my employer pays for it 
Associate
Well the direct example you used was a CCIE qualified guy... so I think we can be forgiven for thinking you meant that one, there wasn't much room for interpretation.
Indeed. I didn't word it very well
Man of Honour
Likely you met a guy who said he had a ccie (unless he showed you some proof). I've interviewed people who've apparently had CCIEs and haven't known the first thing, it was so obvious they were lying....
Or maybe they've done the written exam and think that mens they are "almost an CCIE"
Sorry to kind of hijack this a bit, but what do people think about the comptia qualifications e.g Network+
I've basically just started a job where £x amount is allocated to each person/dept for training purposes. One of the guys on the same title as me is currently doing the CompTia Network Plus course. Are they actually worthwhile? I was under the assumption it wasnt worth doing, just go for the big ones e.g. MCSE, RHCE, CCNA.
I've basically just started a job where £x amount is allocated to each person/dept for training purposes. One of the guys on the same title as me is currently doing the CompTia Network Plus course. Are they actually worthwhile? I was under the assumption it wasnt worth doing, just go for the big ones e.g. MCSE, RHCE, CCNA.
Would it not have been better to say 'bring in your qualifications to the interview' ?
M.
Wll obviously, like for like, companies would prefer to have a CCNA / MCSE rather then Comptia. I've left out RHCE as there's a lot more Microsoft kit out in the world than Redhat so it's very subjective.
M.
Associate
- Joined
- 13 Mar 2006
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- 70
The Network + was the first IT Qual I took way back in 2002. I believe you can actually use some comptia exams to count towards your MCSE path ie Security+ counting towards your MCSE Security specialisation.
I'm just studying for a CCNA at the moment as I want to add a CCNP to my MCSE's eventually, and I have to say that the Network + and CCNA topics are broadly similar. The CCNA just having more on IOS and being genrally more Cisco-centric (for obv reasons).
If your using more disparate hardware the network+ might be more useful, but if your only using Cisco then I would opt for the CCNA.
I'm just studying for a CCNA at the moment as I want to add a CCNP to my MCSE's eventually, and I have to say that the Network + and CCNA topics are broadly similar. The CCNA just having more on IOS and being genrally more Cisco-centric (for obv reasons).
If your using more disparate hardware the network+ might be more useful, but if your only using Cisco then I would opt for the CCNA.
Man of Honour
Either way we employ a company to chase references for us and check qualifications, it's a condition of the offer they pass those checks.
I've never bothered saying bring it to the interview really, seems a bit OTT really. If I went for an initial interview and they said, bring along all your certificates and such, then it'd depend on the job if I could be bothered looking them out and taking them or just telling them to forget it.
Man of Honour
Depends on the environment, small business sure, Enterprise and ISP environments, loads of unix.
Associate
Sure. The way I see it is that if they can demonstrate that they know their stuff in the interview/small technical exam given or admit they don't know certain things but demonstrate their thought processes/how they would find it out then there is a good chance of getting the job. A lot of the people I work with in the security/pen test industry don't have degrees/certs but have been doing this stuff for so long and as a hobby that they know far more than someone who has studied a CCNA/RHCE. One of the best programmers I know has no degree. Depends on the company though. My previous big company I worked for just had HR monkeys who grep'd CVs for buzzwords and couldn't tell the difference between people with a clue and without. That was a really crap environment to work in because the people had no passion and just did the job to pay the bills.
Apologies I had forgotten about posting in here - and again for possibly sounding agrressive when it wasnt intentional, that does certainly sound like a strange interviewee for sure, just laughs at picking his own hours, some people are going to have a very rude awakening - no pun intended - getting a real job
I see where you are coming from - but surely that kind of stuff has to be learnt in situ as different companies account in numerous ways, most of that kind of stuff is handled by Manager level though in My experience anyway, but different strokes and all that
Ive never had to account for the cost of doing something - but certainly have in the amount of time required - never considered it as negotiating either as there is little give and take in getting configs sorted but I do appreciate the point of view. but there is a lot of give and take in when certain aspects have to be done, especially on trading floors etc I guess its all down to working with people and taking it for granted in how I normally work rather than actual negotiations but yes I can agree with the most part with your points
Laughs - Always showing users how to do things - but mostly on a one to one basis as and when its released to them, never ever thought about doing a training course on the aspects of teaching others, getting training (and time to accomplish the training) in tech matters is difficult enough lol
£250k My god - enough said I guess (thats over 5 years of my wages)
fair enough- I was a pub bar man and a hotel manager , but just never really saw the relevance to IT so rarely included it in the body of my cv (only in employment history) and just kept everything relevant to the job being applied for
aaahhh so the £250,000 is majorly in the value of the training you give the successful applicants for free while training paying clients?Or do you only get paid when the successful applicants actually get jobs?
Sounds like a good idea - good luck to you, would never do what you are doing personally but can see the merit in it
Don't forget it costs a lot to employ someone over their base rate. For example:
55k Salary
10k pension per year
20k NI contributions
Then insurance, benefits, bonus, car, allowances (london weighting) etc.
Stacks up.
Soldato
I can see where the confusion has arisen.
The £250,000 would be the value of a single contract to install a system with a customer. Everyone employed by my company (Bright Rabbit Limited) is a share-holder in the company. None of our people here (including myself) actually take home more than £3840/month as that's basically the maximum you can earn in salary and dividends without paying PAYE or NI. When someone leaves, we have a neat way of buying their shares back that usually nets them another £30-40K without incurring silly amounts of personal tax. £3840/month is only actually £46080/year take-home, but it's the equivalent of £85000 on an employee basis where you're paying NI off the top and then basic and higher rate tax afterwards.
Business mileage/low cost car loans/cheap mortgages/non-contributory pensions/training/books/fancy laptops etc. can all be supplied as valid business expenses and are not taxed either, so they are a great way to increase the value of a package without any deductions.
We all work very closely with the accountants to make sure we pay as little tax as possible, both as individual shareholders and as a corporate body.
I've been operating like this for about 5 years now, and this is my third limited company. I was bought out of my original firm and sold the second one to my biggest competitor.
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Soldato
This is all absolutely correct, and it's exactly why I don't have people with me on an employee basis.
Soldato
Personally i think that there is a fine balance between training and experience, ive met both extremes, people who have a number of MCP's and associated vendor certs but no practical experience and people who have been in employment for several years and have fantastic practical stills but nothing on paper.
It realy varies, certifications are more valuable to employers these days in order to gain partner level status which presents a better image to prospective customers.
I took my mcsa, mcse, mcsam and xp mcp whilst working in a pub and was lucky to know someone who would employ me with no previous on the job experience. I have since taken my ccna, iptx and various certs but im lucky to have an employer who appreciates the value of a continuous learning cycle and will fund my ccnp, ccsp and ccvp.
You cant judge someone based on paper qualifications as most can be passed through using intensive study methods, my personal favourite is to put candidates through a mock practical lab and written test for technical posts based on the job role rather than a thorough interview process.
It realy varies, certifications are more valuable to employers these days in order to gain partner level status which presents a better image to prospective customers.
I took my mcsa, mcse, mcsam and xp mcp whilst working in a pub and was lucky to know someone who would employ me with no previous on the job experience. I have since taken my ccna, iptx and various certs but im lucky to have an employer who appreciates the value of a continuous learning cycle and will fund my ccnp, ccsp and ccvp.
You cant judge someone based on paper qualifications as most can be passed through using intensive study methods, my personal favourite is to put candidates through a mock practical lab and written test for technical posts based on the job role rather than a thorough interview process.
The taxman takes NI out of everyone's paypacket doesnt he (being a standard employee)
Most people also have to provide their own pension (or rely on the state one
)Admittedly benenfits and insurance and bonuses (even though bonuses can be sod all if you work in the financial industry with the markets as they are right now hahahaha) - and rarely do IT poeple I regularly talk to get a company car
I accept the jist of your thought though
Ahhh I see the fog clearing slightly - thank you for that.
Good luck to you, sounds like you have it all very well worked out
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The taxman takes NI out of everyone's paypacket doesnt he (being a standard employee)
Most people also have to provide their own pension (or rely on the state one
Admittedly benenfits and insurance and bonuses (even though bonuses can be sod all if you work in the financial industry with the markets as they are right now hahahaha) - and rarely do IT poeple I regularly talk to get a company car
Employer also pays NI. On your payslip it should be under the employers contribution, I think they pay the same amount as you - so effectively the tax man taxes you and then taxes your employer.
With regards to Pension almost all large companies have a scheme of matching, doubling or tripling your contribution. So if you put 6% or, for example, £250 a month into your pension your employer will also put in £250 (or £500, or £750). This is all pure cost