Race report: 'UK not deliberately rigged against ethnic minorities'

Stumble Bum said:
My proposed solution... framing of it... problem statement? Can you stop making everyone one of your posts cryptic and make your points clearer if you wish to have a discussion.
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I didn't bring my crayons I'm afraid, but I'll try and explain it as simply as possible, but sadly words all have different meanings, and a lack, of understanding of language isn't a problem with the explanation.

Black people are overrepresented in crime statistics, so would likely be overrepresented in stop and search.

Black people are not overrepresented in crime statistics because they are Black. Being Black is not a cause of criminal behaviour.

Black people, instead, are overrepresented in poorer areas, and within certain types of family structure that do have a known causal link to crime.

This is why your suggestion that directly links being Black with criminal behaviour is a classic racist dogwhistle. It implies a link between race and criminality that doesn't exist, grouping individuals into a collective and assigning characteristics to that group incorrectly.
 
explicit4u said:
And how does one kid doing more homework prove that it's the parents placing a greater emphasis on education?
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Do you think children devoid of parental direction generally just decide to spend more time on their homework rather than something else?

And if kids are doing more homework what would the likely reason be if not because there was a greater emphasis being placed on education?
 
Would you agree with the following? I have included white people because 1) its true and 2) it undermines the idea of 'white supremacy'

Dolph said:
Black and white people are overrepresented in crime statistics vs other racial groups in the US and UK, so would likely be overrepresented in stop and search and other metrics like arrests and incarceration per capita.

Black and white people are not overrepresented in crime statistics because they are Black or white. Being Black or white is not a cause of criminal behaviour.

Black and White people, instead have significant sub cultures associated with them in places like the UK and USA that are inferior to those of some other ethnic group when it comes to promoting general life success as measured by things like academic attainment and minimising criminality are overrepresented in poorer areas, and within these sub cultures also tend to incentivise certain types of family structure that do have a known causal link to crime.
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Caracus2k said:
Would you agree with the following? I have included white people because 1) its true and 2) it undermines the idea of 'white supremacy'
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In some parts yes, in others no. The first paragraph isn't really borne out in the numbers, and drawing conclusions about the vast majority population is complex because they dominate all socioeconomic groups. Judging over and under representation of minority groups is much easier. This is especially true as representation is a zero sum game.

I would certainly agree with the second, and the third could be written without any racial link as there are subcultures across the population that can have negative impacts even if they don't relate to criminality.
 
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Does poverty result in crime, or does crime result in poverty?

After the recent US riots there are several companies announcing they will not be re-opening stores in those areas.
 
Skunkworks said:
Does poverty result in crime, or does crime result in poverty?

After the recent US riots there are several companies announcing they will not be re-opening stores in those areas.
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Nike got right behind the BLM movement its funny because whenever their is a riot and looting its stores always are the worst affected.
 
Dolph said:
I didn't bring my crayons I'm afraid, but I'll try and explain it as simply as possible, but sadly words all have different meanings, and a lack, of understanding of language isn't a problem with the explanation.

Black people are overrepresented in crime statistics, so would likely be overrepresented in stop and search.

Black people are not overrepresented in crime statistics because they are Black. Being Black is not a cause of criminal behaviour.

Black people, instead, are overrepresented in poorer areas, and within certain types of family structure that do have a known causal link to crime.

This is why your suggestion that directly links being Black with criminal behaviour is a classic racist dogwhistle. It implies a link between race and criminality that doesn't exist, grouping individuals into a collective and assigning characteristics to that group incorrectly.
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Maybe its not poverty that leads to crime a lot of black youths are disenfranchised don't feel part of the society they are growing up in a bit like gypsy travellers who commit a lot of crime also.
 
banbom44 said:
Maybe its not poverty that leads to crime a lot of black youths are disenfranchised don't feel part of the society they are growing up in a bit like gypsy travellers who commit a lot of crime also.
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Maybe one contributing factor is the very high rate of single parents in their community. Without a father at home there is likely to be a tendancy to look to their peers for guidance, who are perhaps not the best role models. Until I was a father myself I didn't appreciate quite how much we can influence (and help) our childrens future.

So maybe a factor in this is not directly poverty, but absent fathers resulting in poverty, which then results in the other issues being seen with crime, etc. For whatever reason, and I don't pretend to understand it, there appears to be a higher percentage of single parent families in the black community (24%) than in white families (10%) or Asian for than matter (8%).
 
banbom44 said:
Maybe its not poverty that leads to crime a lot of black youths are disenfranchised don't feel part of the society they are growing up in a bit like gypsy travellers who commit a lot of crime also.
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Maybe the best way of making them feel included isn't to bombard them with news stories about how racist the UK is? I mean, it's a constant barrage of racism this, racism that.

It's enough to make a person think their situation is hopeless. And to interpret any setback as inevitable, because the odds are so stacked against them. That what the BBC et al are preaching, with religious fervor.
 
Skunkworks said:
Does poverty result in crime, or does crime result in poverty?

After the recent US riots there are several companies announcing they will not be re-opening stores in those areas.
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So after these black neighbourhoods were burned to the ground in the name of racisim (literally cutting off your nose to spite your face) . Predictably these area are going to be economically deprived for the next decade or so. Therefore limiting the options of future generations. All so we could get a street renamed to Black lives matter street.

Congratulations Black people you just got played by the Democrats. Watch them weponise the poverty to get votes in future election like they always do.
And there were a bunch of fools on these forums cheering this nonsense on.
 





More and more professional organisations are coming out to dispute the findings. It is clear the board was handpicked with clear goals and outcomes in mind, as many organisations are pointing out that they were consulted but then rejected as contributors based on their input.
 
banbom44 said:
Nike got right behind the BLM movement its funny because whenever their is a riot and looting its stores always are the worst affected.
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But maybe its because Nike has the stats that they make disproportionately more money from Black people. When I see someone who's obsessed by trainers and needs to buy a new pair of $100 Nikes every month they're not usually white.
 
hurfdurf said:
More and more professional organisations are coming out to dispute the findings.
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Of course they do, it's learned behavior at this point. They have been hammered to be as woke as possible on pain of HR death and will take time to change their attitudes to fit the facts
 
In the USA there are 3x as many white people living in poverty as there are black people.

We can remove poverty as an excuse.

We just had 8 years of Obama prior to trump. So we can remove the 'no role models' excuse.

The majority of the top paid sports stars in the NBA, NFL etc are non white.

A large number of the top paid musicians are also non white.

So we can remove earning potential and aspiration as excuses.

Any left?
 
robgmun said:
But maybe its because Nike has the stats that they make disproportionately more money from Black people. When I see someone who's obsessed by trainers and needs to buy a new pair of $100 Nikes every month they're not usually white.
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Keep out of 'images ive purchased' as of late :p
 
dowie said:
It doesn't alone I was just giving you one example. The cultural aspects, expectations for Asians even in poverty have been documented plenty of times, big focus on education and career choice:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...ts-succeed-because-its-expected-say-scholars/


It isn't really hard to see how a kid in a family where their parents have a focus on education, try to get them into a good school, make them do more homework, have high expectations re: grades etc.. is going to be a bit of a different environment (even if poor) than some parents (or single parent) who doesn't care much about school choice, is rather blase about making their kid(s) do homework etc.. not interested in what grades they got etc..
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I'm not debating that those things contribute to greater attainment, I'm saying how do you measure how much emphasis parents put on education and how do you link this to a culture, especially one as vague as 'asian'.

That article is basically an opinion piece, granted it's opinions from an actual study, but it doesn't answer the question of how you measure how much focus a culture puts on education. I'd also question just how limited a families resources are if they are able to move into a neighbourhood with good schools (or move at all) and afford a tutor for their kids.

Funnily enough I did find this article from the same source when reading further into it:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...-to-asian-american-success-was-not-education/



Caracus2k said:
Do you think children devoid of parental direction generally just decide to spend more time on their homework rather than something else?

And if kids are doing more homework what would the likely reason be if not because there was a greater emphasis being placed on education?
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I wouldn't know in regards to your first question, while it may seem obvious that kids who do more homework have more education focused parents, I won't pretend to know any facts or statistics to back that up. Anecdotally, girls do more homework than boys, even if they're from the same household, there's clearly other factors at play other than just education focused parents.

A greater emphasis placed on education by the parents is the focus here, how can you conclude a kid doing more homework is down to the parent?
 
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