I'm not brushing that aside at all, this is a complex matter but BAME communities make up a disproportionate section of the poor in this country and even this report clearly supports that being from a poor background significantly negatively impacts your life chances. We live in a society that blames poor kids for being born poor and denies them the opportunities that kids from middle class and wealthy backgrounds take for granted, but that's not what this thread is about this thread is about a bunch of people trumpeting that racism doesn't really exist apart from that against white males..... I'm out as they say.
Race report: 'UK not deliberately rigged against ethnic minorities'
- Thread starter Skunkworks
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Stop using 'BAME' like this as it makes you look like a disingenuous or ignorant person.
The whole reason BAME is used in these sorts of contexts is to make the issue about white people or 'whiteness' by saying look white people are doing better than non whites ergo must be racism.
The problem is that 'BAME' is a broad church that includes certain groups that routinely outperform 'whites' when it comes to things like school attainment, salary, low per capita stop and search rates and low rates of imprisonment.
The existence of these groups of course rather undermines the 'white supermacy' narrative.
Different starting point etc. But my brief time in New Zealand showed where you can get to if you try.
You don't think the uk has tried and to most measures, succeeded?
New Zealand is not an equivalent country imo - but is there any specific policies they have?
Imo the issue will be ever more challenging - especially if we do not encourage integration.
Soldato
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The report acknowledges that some BAME communities make up a disproportionate section of the poor and asks why this is. It finds it is due to a range of factors including upbringing, education, culture etc. It finds that institutional racism is not a provable factor in this any more.
Of course, it used to be a factor eg in the 70's, 80's and maybe some of the knock on effect today is from institutional racism of the past. But things have already been done in this country to get rid of this, so now effectively its a waiting game for those benefits to trickle through which will take multiple generations.
The report is indicating that these problems with the poor will progress quicker if we focus on what the actual issue is (i.e being poor), not fixate on institutional racism for political point scoring and self proclaimed righteousness, that has already been solved within our overall laws and large institutions.
I think that is false as well. The current system allows anyone access to a University education if they apply themselves at school if they want to take on the burden of debt, hell there are even universities with relatively low entrance requirements. School education is free as is college, so what barriers are being put up that denies the BAME poor opportunities? A system that is so institutionally racist that white boys are now one of the poor performing sectors of society doesnt seem to be working very well is it? Just to reiterate, Im Chinese so am not claiming racism against white males because Im white
Man of Honour
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Majority white country, isn’t it? Seems like poor white boys only matter when other groups are trying to highlight their struggles.
That’s not the point and no one would disagree. The other politicians don’t get racial abuse, people telling them they’re not British/English or telling them to go back to where they came from etc.
Soldato
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I'd recommend reading the report, if you haven't already. It addresses many of the points you've made in some detail.
The report makes some interesting points about pay disparities- suggesting they are close to negligible in under 30s.
It also sets out statistics on educational achievement and a range of other items.
As I said, if you haven't already read it, give it a look.
Soldato
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I just skimmed the BMJ response. It raises some good points. This point
"There is now sufficient evidence that ethnic disparities in covid-19 are partly due to high-risk public facing jobs, living conditions such as multigenerational households, poverty, chronic co-morbidities..." is covered in the report.
Have you looked at the report?
Of course he's not, he's refused all replies asking him if he's reading the articles he's trying to scrounge opinions against.
Come to that I have the feeling he's not reading the article he's retweeting a cherry pick from.
That article is from BMJ Opinion, as in anyone can submit a well enough written piece, so I don't know about calling it a "BMJ response": https://blogs.bmj.com/bmj/2021/03/3...e-and-driver-of-ethnic-disparities-in-health/
I was also skim reading the BMJ Opinion piece and it does seem to be big on emphasising poverty as a major reason for the worse outlook for certain ethnic groups. Which is interesting as only yesterday I listened to almost an hour of the report chairman (from 2019) talking about the detrimental effect of being poor (among other things) on young black boys. Did he really forget to put poverty issues into the report 2 years later or is that response itself flawed?
I've just gone to have a quick check and damn near drowned in the absolute sea of factors the report mentions. Yes there are many money related ones: https://assets.publishing.service.g...31_-_CRED_Report_-_FINAL_-_Web_Accessible.pdf
Also noted that the single parent issue I heard him talking about is also in the report. They emphasised that they were not passing judgement on the matter then got on to say that lone parent families are more likely to need support and that there is a racial difference when it comes to single parent families. They then repeated it was not about allocating blame. In bold italics.
Come to that I have the feeling he's not reading the article he's retweeting a cherry pick from.
That article is from BMJ Opinion, as in anyone can submit a well enough written piece, so I don't know about calling it a "BMJ response": https://blogs.bmj.com/bmj/2021/03/3...e-and-driver-of-ethnic-disparities-in-health/
I was also skim reading the BMJ Opinion piece and it does seem to be big on emphasising poverty as a major reason for the worse outlook for certain ethnic groups. Which is interesting as only yesterday I listened to almost an hour of the report chairman (from 2019) talking about the detrimental effect of being poor (among other things) on young black boys. Did he really forget to put poverty issues into the report 2 years later or is that response itself flawed?
I've just gone to have a quick check and damn near drowned in the absolute sea of factors the report mentions. Yes there are many money related ones: https://assets.publishing.service.g...31_-_CRED_Report_-_FINAL_-_Web_Accessible.pdf
Also noted that the single parent issue I heard him talking about is also in the report. They emphasised that they were not passing judgement on the matter then got on to say that lone parent families are more likely to need support and that there is a racial difference when it comes to single parent families. They then repeated it was not about allocating blame. In bold italics.
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Weird how people only bring this up when racism is discussed, it’s almost as if they don’t really care about it and just want to ignore racism.
Caporegime
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The far right aren't a problem here? Hmmm
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-56604470
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-56414713
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-56604470
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-56414713
It's brought up in response to poverty being cited as evidence of racism, obviously.
EDIT: Or to be more specific, the fact that certain ethnic groups underperform academically rather than poverty per se.
While I've got this open and since some like to read potted opinions rather than the report I might as well mention that it does indeed mention the left behind white british outnumbering the ethnic minorities in deprived areas.
Even specially mentioned poor white boys doing terribly.
Even specially mentioned poor white boys doing terribly.
Weird how you ignore everything that proves you wrong. Also this report never said racism doesn't exist, but it does say that institutional racism doesn't. You are ignoring that too though.
As soon as I saw this I knew it would be used by the loony left. One idiot police officer doesn't mean the whole system is racist.
Soldato
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This isn't institutional racism. Its individual racism.
What you have to ask is for example, whether the police have any bias towards ignoring this abuse compared to ignoring any other type of abuse. That would then be institutional racism.
Caporegime
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Where did I say that? It was in response to people earlier in the thread saying far right terror wasn't an issue in the UK.
Anyway, still funny that you think I am "loony left"