Racist! Really?

Jono8 · 11 Sep 2018 at 20:09

dowie said:
I'm not sure where you're getting that she's been depicted as an old woman? And again she is big and she does have a flat nose... you're trying to make a link that isn't there. You're being deliberately disingenuous tbh.. ins.

Absolutely not. She is big and muscular, not fat with oversized breasts.

It just looks like a fat old woman that he has drawn.

As i have said though, it might just be that he is a **** artist rather than a racist.

Again though, it isn't just how she is depicted either. The depiction of the opponent as a stick thin white blonde woman just adds fuel to the fire. Again though, no one can say for sure if their was any malice in that, consciously or subconsciously. Only the artist knows.

Mr Jack · 11 Sep 2018 at 20:13

Jono8 said:
Absolutely not. She is big and muscular, not fat with oversized breasts.

It just looks like a fat old woman that he has drawn.

"Fat old woman"? I wonder what fat old women you know if they look a thing like that!

Jono8 · 11 Sep 2018 at 20:15

Mr Jack said:
"Fat old woman"? I wonder what fat old women you know if they look a thing like that!

Well obviously, it looks like a caricature of a fat old woman, not of a fit and muscular athlete in her prime (like his depiction of Bolt above).

Uncle Petey · 11 Sep 2018 at 20:16

Do you think that looks like Bolt?

Participant · 11 Sep 2018 at 20:20

Mr Jack said:
No, it's saying that icons and words have meanings and those meanings are informed by history. For example, the swastika is ancient symbol but if I get one tattooed on my face no sensible person is going to buy into my protestations that I intended it as a Hindu symbol of peace and I could hardly claim ignorance. A satirical artist claiming ignorance of historical racist depictions is almost certainly being disingenuous.

You can't in all seriousness drawn comparisons with the depiction of a swastika.

Cum hoc ergo propter hoc. How exactly would you go about caricaturing Serena Williams? MS Paint will do. Or is caricaturing black people out of bounds now, like those of the prophet (pbuh)? Who's next in the 'untouchable' list? The Queen? The PM?

Totalitarianism here we come...

Mr Jack · 11 Sep 2018 at 20:21

Jono8 said:
Well obviously, it looks like a caricature of a fat old woman, not of a fit and muscular athlete in her prime (like his depiction of Bolt above).

Look at her arms, her calves, her shoulders, the caricature clearly shows a powerfully muscular woman. Yes, it shows her as hefty, but Serena is hardly slight. It's also a deliberately unflattering caricature; Serena is the _target_ of the cartoon here. It's supposed to make her look bad.

dowie · 11 Sep 2018 at 20:22

Jono8 said:
It just looks like a fat old woman that he has drawn.

As i have said though, it might just be that he is a **** artist rather than a racist.

or perhaps you've got **** eye sight if you think she's a "fat old woman" in that cartoon where she's clearly muscular and there isn't anything to suggest her being "old"

Again though, it isn't just how she is depicted either. The depiction of the opponent as a stick thin white blonde woman just adds fuel to the fire. Again though, no one can say for sure if their was any malice in that, consciously or subconsciously. Only the artist knows.

she's not been depicted as white, another poster already debunked that, she's not the focus of the cartoon either, she's just random person in the background, sure she should have been drawn bigger but that's not really important

Mr Jack · 11 Sep 2018 at 20:25

Participant said:
You can't in all seriousness drawn comparisons with the depiction of a swastika.

It's an example of how symbols have meaning because of their historic use.

Cum hoc ergo propter hoc.

You're really misusing that phrase here.

How exactly would you go about caricaturing Serena Williams? MS Paint will do. Or is caricaturing black people out of bounds now, like those of the prophet (pbuh)?

Me? I couldn't draw my way out of a wet paper bag, but plenty of caricaturists manage to depict black people without echoing racist depictions of the past. It just takes a little bit of care. As I said I lean towards the depiction not being racist. I think it's in keeping with the tradition of caricature; however, I also don't think it's too much to ask for satirical artists in major newspapers to pay attention to the tropes that they are echoing.

Jono8 · 11 Sep 2018 at 20:28

dowie said:
or perhaps you've got **** eye sight if you think she's a "fat old woman" in that pic

Yes, all the people comparing it to the sambo comics have terrible eye sight.... It looks like what it looks like. It looks like a fat old/middle aged woman. It doesn't resemble a 36 year old athlete like Serena at all, not even as a caricature.

dowie said:
she's not been depicted as white

Don't be silly.

jaybee · 11 Sep 2018 at 20:30

No sympathy for that horrible women. Me me me me me. All about her. She's overshadowed a joyful moment for her opponent. Very typical of her.

dowie · 11 Sep 2018 at 20:41

Jono8 said:
Yes, all the people comparing it to the sambo comics have terrible eye sight....

that isn't what I referred to, don't be dishonest. I referred to your claim that she's depicted as fat and old, I've only seen you make that claim.

It looks like what it looks like. It looks like a fat old/middle aged woman. It doesn't resemble a 36 year old athlete like Serena at all, not even as a caricature.

you've made that claim already yet you haven't substantiated it - you're seemingly wilfully ignoring the muscular arms, she's a big girl, sure, but I don't see any flab rolls, any Cankles or a double chin here...
Ditto to "old" - she's depicted having a tantrum, though were is the "old" claim coming from?

Don't be silly.

I'm not, another poster has debunked that already, you can check the colours used yourself

Malevolence · 11 Sep 2018 at 20:43

StriderX said:
Well as long as the lips aren't bright red, i guess I can't really see the issue, does make her seem rather ugly though.

Can't polish a turd.

Jono8 · 11 Sep 2018 at 20:44

dowie said:
I'm not, another poster has debunked that already, you can check the colours used yourself

Astonishing.

Jokester · 11 Sep 2018 at 20:48

Jono8 said:
Astonishing.

Post 85 bud. Might want to check it out.

Jono8 · 11 Sep 2018 at 20:50

Jokester said:
Post 85 bud. Might want to check it out.

I have and it's hilarious.

SpeedFreak · 11 Sep 2018 at 20:51

I'd love to have an opinion on this but I'm a white middle class male.

Jokester · 11 Sep 2018 at 20:52

Jono8 said:
I have and it's hilarious.

Is that a “when your so wrong all you can do is mock someone’s laugh” response?

Jono8 · 11 Sep 2018 at 20:58

Jokester said:
Is that a “when your so wrong all you can do is mock someone’s laugh” response?

No. I'm just astonished that anyone looks at that picture and thinks that the opponent is depicted as anything other than a white blonde woman.

Taking a random colour swatch from a shaded part of her face means absolutely nothing.

Look at the rest of her limbs for a start!

Jokester · 11 Sep 2018 at 21:03

Jono8 said:
No. I'm just astonished that anyone looks at that picture and thinks that the opponent is depicted as anything other than a white blonde woman.

Taking a random colour swatch from a shaded part of her face means absolutely nothing.

Look at the rest of her limbs for a start!

What about them? They’re a similar shade to other areas of the Serena cartoon! Plus the blonde hair is actually a fairly realistic depiction of her hair.

She isn’t even the subject of the cartoon but just a background figure.

Jono8 · 11 Sep 2018 at 21:06

Jokester said:
She isn’t even the subject of the cartoon but just a background figure.

Agreed, but a background figure depicted as white blonde woman.