Rafa deserves the chance to overachieve with Liverpool again

HangTime · 11 Mar 2010 at 19:37

4th + Europa League is better than 3rd place and getting knocked out before the CL final IMO.
In 20 years time when people are looking back at the history books, a european trophy will mean more than 3rd place in the league.

eatcustard · 12 Mar 2010 at 11:55

I hope Rafa stays.

Best Liverpool manager since the last one

and you will not get 4th spot, 7th if you are lucky

FrankJH · 12 Mar 2010 at 12:11

jakeke said:
£40m or £50m would be a more realistic figure, lets face it, there aren't going to be that many £70m transfers anymore, Real literally went all out last summer, can't see them doing that again for a while

Only with a really good run in the WC for him personally

Fabulous player unquestionably but with major injury issues would lessen that considerably - when was the last time he played a good sequence of "senior" games for his club? (obviously "senior" itself is debatable but hopefuly its obvious)

Would suggest he has rarely done a good few months in a row for Liverpool without missing games here and there

Personally glad Utd have Rooney rather than Torres or Ronaldo from work rate alone

Tombstone · 12 Mar 2010 at 12:28

FrankJH said:
Personally glad Utd have Rooney rather than Torres or Ronaldo from work rate alone

I'd rather have Torres than Rooney.

But I'd much rather have both Torres AND Rooney

Gilly · 12 Mar 2010 at 12:30

Tombstone said:
I'd rather have Torres than Rooney.

But I'd much rather have both Torres AND Rooney

Only a Liverpool/Athletico fan could want Torres instead of Rooney.

How many appearances has Rooney had since Torres arrived in England? How many has Torres had in the same time?

Tombstone · 12 Mar 2010 at 12:31

Gilly said:
Only a Liverpool/Athletico fan could want Torres instead of Rooney.

How many appearances has Rooney had since Torres arrived in England? How many has Torres had in the same time?

Well it would be a very dull and remarkably easy world in football if we all want the same people in our teams. Could just have one manager for the entire league.

I would rather have Torres instead of Rooney. Others would rather have Rooney instead of Torres. Thats the wonder of individuality

Gilly · 12 Mar 2010 at 12:33

Tombstone said:
Well it would be a very dull and remarkably easy world in football if we all want the same people in our teams. Could just have one manager for the entire league.

I would rather have Torres instead of Rooney. Others would rather have Rooney instead of Torres. Thats the wonder of individuality

I'd rather have a great player that plays than a great player that doesn't. That is an obvious choice and only one blinded by bias could miss it

[edit]Looks like Rooney has had 129 apps in the time Torres has been in England, where Torres has had 74. Massive difference there.

Tombstone · 12 Mar 2010 at 12:35

Gilly said:
How many appearances has Rooney had since Torres arrived in England? How many has Torres had in the same time?

To answer the question though :

Rooney since 2007 - 129 Appearances - 68 Goals
Torres since 2007 - 107 Appearances - 63 Goals

Much of a muchness really

Tombstone · 12 Mar 2010 at 12:36

Gilly said:
I'd rather have a great player that plays than a great player that doesn't. That is an obvious choice and only one blinded by bias could miss it

Maybe.

Some would call it bias. Others call it simply people having different opinions. Neither is right or wrong, just different choices.

Gilly · 12 Mar 2010 at 12:36

I know Wiki isn't the be-all and end-all but it states 74 appearances for Torres in that time. Where have you got 107 from?

Tombstone · 12 Mar 2010 at 12:39

Gilly said:
I know Wiki isn't the be-all and end-all but it states 74 appearances for Torres in that time. Where have you got 107 from?

I used wiki too...it shows..

2007-8 - 46 Appearances - 33 Goals
2008-9 - 38 Appearances - 17 Goals
2009-10 - 23 Appearances 13 Goals

Totals 107 Appearances - 63 Goals

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fernando_Torres

Dont know where you are getting 74 from

Gilly · 12 Mar 2010 at 12:42

Whilst that isn't as many as I had thought, it is still a fair percentage. When you say much of a muchness, that is 22 appearances in less than 3 seasons. To add in a further dimension, how many games were there that Rooney wasn't injured for that he was left out of, where Torres was absent through injury?

To take the two personages out of the equation, if you could have Player A who is the best in his position for 65% of your teams games (not picking and choosing the big games) or you could have Player B who is still a great player but not quite as good as A for 85% of your games, which would you pick?

Tombstone · 12 Mar 2010 at 12:44

Gilly said:
Whilst that isn't as many as I had thought, it is still a fair percentage. When you say much of a muchness, that is 22 appearances in less than 3 seasons. To add in a further dimension, how many games were there that Rooney wasn't injured for that he was left out of, where Torres was absent through injury?

So its not 74 then?

I'm not going to sit here arguing with you about who is right and wrong. I've already told you, its just personal choices, different people would pick different players for their different teams. Thats all. There is no perfect 11, there is just a given persons chosen 11.

FrankJH · 12 Mar 2010 at 13:02

Tombstone said:
To answer the question though :

Rooney since 2007 - 129 Appearances - 68 Goals
Torres since 2007 - 107 Appearances - 63 Goals

Much of a muchness really

No not at all - consider how much Rooney was put on the left wing when Renaldo was playing, and that comparison is very biased imo

eatcustard · 12 Mar 2010 at 13:06

Own goal is better that Torres.

At least he does not get injured

Tombstone · 12 Mar 2010 at 13:07

FrankJH said:
No not at all - consider how much Rooney was put on the left wing when Renaldo was playing, and that comparison is very biased imo

Well the comparison was in appearances (which is what the question was asking that I answered) not in goals ratio. So the relevant info which pertains to the question asked is 129-107.

As above though, I am not going to waste my time sitting here arguing with people who think I have made the "wrong" choice.

FrankJH · 12 Mar 2010 at 13:09

Most people measure how good a striker is by how many goals he scores in x amount of appearances.......obviously you dont

eatcustard said:
Own goal is better that Torres.

At least he does not get injured

He doenst turn up for enough games to be comparable with Torres lol

Tombstone · 12 Mar 2010 at 13:10

FrankJH said:
Most people measure how good a striker is by how many goals he scores in x amount of appearances.......obviously you dont

Obviously.

Gilly · 12 Mar 2010 at 13:46

Tombstone said:
So its not 74 then?

74 is league appearances, I was looking at a different part of the page, not entirely sure why that is funny :confused:

Appearances is important for any player, and I'm sorry but that amount is a lot.

red11 · 12 Mar 2010 at 14:18

Tombstone said:
I'd rather have Torres than Rooney.

But I'd much rather have both Torres AND Rooney

It's hard to say this without sounding biased because I'm a Man Utd fan, but I'd have Rooney over Torres every day of the week. Rooney simply has more to his game than Torres has ever shown.

Both of them together up front would be immense.