Rafa deserves the chance to overachieve with Liverpool again

Yas786 · 18 Jan 2010 at 16:09

Tummy said:
They were in a European final in 2007 and won it?

How is that in the past "few" years not had the success?

OK ok mr pedantic sod strikes again

...yes they won the CL in 2007 and but compared to the early 2000's and 90's...to me they arent as great as they once were but thats bound to happen...just hope it would happen sooner to Man Utd and Chelski

G|mp said:
And so by that rational, Arsenal are no longer a big team

To you maybe they arent

...to me they are...we are consistently one of the biggest teams in the world...but i dont expect you to agree with that..coupled with the fact that we are one of the richest clubs in the world...sure we havent had the success that Man Utd have had but i dont consider Arsenal any less a team than others that have achieved or should i say bought their success

Tunney · 18 Jan 2010 at 16:10

BaZ87 said:
And how was Defoe effectively free?

No money changed hands. Spurs sold him to Portsmouth with a £4mil sell on clause and Portsmouth still owed Spurs a lot of money from past transfer dealings. Spurs agreed to write off some of that debt in exchange for Defoe. Not bad considering how many other clubs are owed money by Portsmouth at the moment. Most of them won't see a penny.

Tummy · 18 Jan 2010 at 16:14

Spawn said:
To you maybe they arent...to me they are...we are consistently one of the biggest teams in the world...but i dont expect you to agree with that..coupled with the fact that we are one of the richest clubs in the world...sure we havent had the success that Man Utd have had but i dont consider Arsenal any less a team than others that have achieved or should i say bought their success

So ... Clubs get to be one of the biggest "clubs in the world" by not winning things and having lots of money?

Wait... by that reckonning QPR ?

History defines your football club, Chelsea don't have much compared to A.C. Milan. A.C. Milan historically are a massive club, who have always had good players and won things. They won the European cup in 2007, (a competition Arsenal and Chelsea are yet to win). To young people or people who are daft enough to believe sky then yes the "biggest clubs in the world" are Man City, Man United, Liverpool, Chelsea and Arsenal.

jakeke · 18 Jan 2010 at 16:16

Fair enough AC are having a good season so maybe that makes me sound a bit silly on the Milan front, but doesn't it kind of go against the big club philosophy that they have to sell their stars to even stay a football club? I'd say that's just plain embarassing, it's like Liverpool selling Torres, it's literally last resort, and Milan have been there

G|mp · 18 Jan 2010 at 16:16

Spawn said:
To you maybe they arent...to me they are...we are consistently one of the biggest teams in the world...but i dont expect you to agree with that..coupled with the fact that we are one of the richest clubs in the world...sure we havent had the success that Man Utd have had but i dont consider Arsenal any less a team than others that have achieved or should i say bought their success

On the one hand we have an Arsenal fan saying AC Milan and Bayern aren't big teams because they have won naff all for a few years but then we have another Arsenal fan say Arsenal are a big team because.......well they just are because I love them, make your minds up boys!:/

Arsenal have won **** all for years so therefore cannot be considered to be a world wide 'Elite' club.

You also can't base it on winning league titles and CL's, otherwise Porto would be an 'Elite' club.

You and Jakeke are basing your arguments on the fact you both love your team, which while admirable does not make you right

Tummy · 18 Jan 2010 at 16:17

Since when did Milan have to sell stars to remain a football club?

fez · 18 Jan 2010 at 16:18

He did indeed create this team but how much has he spent per year on it. If you compare how much they have spent compared to the other teams at the top I think that he hasnt done too badly.

jakeke · 18 Jan 2010 at 16:18

Do you think they sold Kaka for football reasons?! They were forced to sell him to stay financially stable

And Bayern are struggling in the league and in Europe, despite spending shed loads of cash and still being the richest club in Germany, to me that signals a team in decline and the fact that the rest of the league has caught up, without having the Bayern name or the Bayern fanbase or the Bayern cash

While I don't claim Arsenal to be the top team in Europe, if the likes of Bayern and Juve are considered up there, Arsenal should be too imo

Tummy · 18 Jan 2010 at 16:19

jakeke said:
Do you think they sold Kaka for football reasons?! They were forced to sell him to stay financially stable

No?

You can't keep players at your club that don't want to be there?

Suppose they sold Shev for the same reason, They needed to keep afloat.

G|mp · 18 Jan 2010 at 16:19

jakeke said:
Do you think they sold Kaka for football reasons?! They were forced to sell him to stay financially stable

**** me.

It's not whether a club needs to sell players or not!!!!!!!!!!

We sold Ronaldo to re-coup money we are losing hand over fist, does that mean we cease to be a big club?

BaZ87 · 18 Jan 2010 at 16:20

Tunney said:
No money changed hands. Spurs sold him to Portsmouth with a £4mil sell on clause and Portsmouth still owed Spurs a lot of money from past transfer dealings. Spurs agreed to write off some of that debt in exchange for Defoe. Not bad considering how many other clubs are owed money by Portsmouth at the moment. Most of them won't see a penny.

So he wasn't free then. One way or another the clubs that Portsmouth owe money to are going to get paid, the EPL are giving Portsmouth's share of the league's TV money directly to those clubs until it's paid.

It's no different from the Johsnon transfer to Liverpool; we were owed ~£7m, that doesn't mean Johnson only cost us ~£10m though.

jakeke · 18 Jan 2010 at 16:22

Tummy said:
No?

You can't keep players at your club that don't want to be there?

Suppose they sold Shev for the same reason, They needed to keep afloat.

Kaka said he wanted to retire at Milan and the reason he was sold was that the club needed money

jakeke · 18 Jan 2010 at 16:23

G|mp said:
**** me.

It's not whether a club needs to sell players or not!!!!!!!!!!

We sold Ronaldo to re-coup money we are losing hand over fist, does that mean we cease to be a big club?

I'd say it's a bad sign yes, well, I'd be worried if it was my club I guess. Still don't think that Ronaldo was sold for the money though

Tummy · 18 Jan 2010 at 16:24

Same goes for United re: Ronaldo then Jakeke?

Tummy · 18 Jan 2010 at 16:25

Arsenal wouldn't sell Fab for 80 million if Barca / Real wanted him, then would they? 'cause they don't need the money?

jakeke · 18 Jan 2010 at 16:27

I think Arsenal are the only team in the league that wouldn't sell for 80m though (along with Chelsk and City?) as it is an absurd amount of cash and thankfully Arsenal don't need it right now.

Edit - Then again what do I know, Arsenal could well sell Fab for £80m, I doubt it, as I'm sure there's already been ridiculous offers for him every summer, but it could happen I suppose

Tummy · 18 Jan 2010 at 16:28

jakeke said:
I think Arsenal are the only team in the league that wouldn't sell for 80m though (along with Chelsk and City?) as it is an absurd amount of cash and thankfully Arsenal don't need it right now.

What if Fab wanted to leave ? ala Ronaldo?

You'd keep him at the club because you don't need the money? :/

Yas786 · 18 Jan 2010 at 16:29

Tummy said:
So ... Clubs get to be one of the biggest "clubs in the world" by not winning things and having lots of money?

Wait... by that reckonning QPR ?

History defines your football club, Chelsea don't have much compared to A.C. Milan. A.C. Milan historically are a massive club, who have always had good players and won things. They won the European cup in 2007, (a competition Arsenal and Chelsea are yet to win). To young people or people who are daft enough to believe sky then yes the "biggest clubs in the world" are Man City, Man United, Liverpool, Chelsea and Arsenal.

Yeh sure why not??..QPR are pretty rich/big due to a certain fat dodgy Italian in charge

.

As for being daft ive not said AC Milan arent a big team...they are theres no doubting that...they have plenty of history...probably on par with Liverpool but what im saying is that lately they havent been the team that dominated the early 2000's and 90's.

Pertty much a team in transition and losing Kaka has hindered them but they are doing pretty well under Leonardo.

G|mp said:
On the one hand we have an Arsenal fan saying AC Milan and Bayern aren't big teams because they have won naff all for a few years but then we have another Arsenal fan say Arsenal are a big team because.......well they just are because I love them, make your minds up boys!:/

Arsenal have won **** all for years so therefore cannot be considered to be a world wide 'Elite' club.

You also can't base it on winning league titles and CL's, otherwise Porto would be an 'Elite' club.

You and Jakeke are basing your arguments on the fact you both love your team, which while admirable does not make you right

Well yes i do love Arsenal but ive not said any of my points are FACT have i??..its just how i see it GIMP...much like you see your points as being right. You got your opinion and i have mine but ill kindly stick to mine as i dont need a brummie telling me what to think or not to think

....and yes i know your from wolves...more or less the same area

.

G|mp · 18 Jan 2010 at 16:30

You worry all you want

I won't be, you're obviously too young to be aware of such things but years ago MU were in mid table struggling through almost every season witha good cup run as the highlight of the season, we were still a massive club.

Look at it this was, if say you took.........Parma for instance and you say to Parma "right you're in the Champions League against a big English team, who do you think they would go for first?

Arsenal?

Or would it be more like this Man Utd>Liverpool>Chelsea>Arsenal?

Or maybe "You've got a big German team"

Wolfsburg?
Borissia Durtmund?
Schalke?

Or would they be expecting Bayern?

jakeke · 18 Jan 2010 at 16:30

If Fabregas wanted to go then obviously he'd get sold, same as what happened with Ronaldo. I don't think Ferguson sold Ronaldo because the club was in financial trouble like Milan and Kaka, I think Ronaldo wanted to go and Ferguson was genuinely fed up and just raped Real for all they had