Raptor Lake Leaks + Intel 4 developments

[Journey]

Pretty sure all AMD need to know is Raptor Lake performance, then they base their pricing on their performance against the competition, like they have been doing for the last few years for the various product ranges. Some people seem to think that if you have a new product you must price it the same as your last one, even if it is superior to that of what is on offer by the competition. Case in point is the 10600K vs 5600X nonsense, ~£279 vs ~£260, it's ok for Intel to charge £260 as they are 'slower' but it wasn't OK for AMD to charge £279 being 'faster' as the 3600X cost less, so the 5600 can't cost more. Finally competition has now forced pricing to come down, as they go tit-for-tat on performance over the next few years, so I am sure it will be interesting.

Obviously no one wants prices to go up, but you've got some right head-the-balls around here thinking a specific 'brand' has to be a specific price.

On a side note, in the past 4 weeks I've upgraded over a dozen systems from Zen/Zen+ to Zen3 parts on B350/X370 boards from 2017/18. Value.

 

[Bencher]

2700k - $332
3770k - $332
4770k - $339
4790k - $339
6700k - $339
7700k - $350

Definitely some price increases (even if they were only small), and other than the relatively large jump in IPC between Ivy Bridge and Devils Canyon, the performance increases year on year were lol worthy and rightly derided

I agree, the performance increases were indeed lol worthy (although you conviniently left out the 8700k). Yet even this lolworthy performance increase is better than what amd gave us (r7 1700 to 5600x at the same price). Thats my point.

 

[Bencher]

@Bencher provide citation with your sweeping statements or you'll just get called out for talking crap.

What citation do you need to figure out that the transition from a 4770k to an 8700k is a huge performance jump compared to the transition between a 1700 to a 5600x (or even from a 2600k to 6700k)? Really, do I need to provide sources for that? You can check the reviews of the specific cpus and compare cinebench scores.

 

[Armageus]

I agree, the performance increases were indeed lol worthy (although you conviniently left out the 8700k).

I "conveniently" left it out, as that was when Intel stopped milking and actually delivered a tangible performance increase by upping the number of cores.

Intel chips of the era were easy to compare - the top chip was the top chip (well until the 8xxx series when the 8086k was actually an extra chip above the 8700k with a corresponding price increase).


If you want to compare AMD's milking then you need to look at chips that sit in similar positions in the range on each occasion e.g.

1700X - $399 - (technically 1800x was range topper but even more expensive)
2700X - $329 - Range topping chip that was actually cheaper?
3800X - $399 - (3900X and 3950X just enthusiast parts that fit the same socket)
5800X - $449 - (5900X and 5950X just enthusiast parts that fit the same socket)

So in 4 years, an 80% increase in Multi threaded performance, and a 70% increase in Single Thread performance, with only a 13% increase in price?

(EDIT: By comparison Intel in their 6 years of "milking" managed a ~70% increase in MT, ~50% increase in ST, with a 6% price increase)

 

[eddyr]

I agree, the performance increases were indeed lol worthy (although you conviniently left out the 8700k). Yet even this lolworthy performance increase is better than what amd gave us (r7 1700 to 5600x at the same price). Thats my point.

It is left out appropriately.
You misattribute Intel's pricing of the 8700k, it was purely reactive as a response to Zen release in 2017.

The entire market shifted in mainstream multithreaded performance in 2017 due to Zen release. You conveniently overlap Intel's stagnant 4c era with the start of the 6c+ era. Your point is disingenuous.

 

[Perfect_Chaos]

So in 4 years, an 80% increase in Multi threaded performance, and a 70% increase in Single Thread performance, with only a 13% increase in price?

They did play catchup for a while regarding single thread / per core performance, or whatever it's called, and latency to be fair. So they were bound to get bigger leaps there.

 

[q974739]

In a side note, in the past 4 weeks I've upgraded over a dozen systems from Zen/Zen+ to Zen3 parts on B350/X370 boards from 2017/18. Value.

What sort of performance gains have you seen - is it literally as you'd expect from the CPU change - or is the gain mroe muted, held back by other, older components?

 

[Bencher]

It is left out appropriately.
You misattribute Intel's pricing of the 8700k, it was purely reactive as a response to Zen release in 2017.

The entire market shifted in mainstream multithreaded performance in 2017 due to Zen release. You conveniently overlap Intel's stagnant 4c era with the start of the 6c+ era. Your point is disingenuous.

Isn't Ryzen a response to what Intel had at the time as well? So how is that an argument, lol.

 

[Bencher]

If you want to compare AMD's milking then you need to look at chips that sit in similar positions in the range on each occasion e.g.

That's what I did. I compared the 5600x to the 1700 and the 3700x. That's a bad joke, AMD milking way harder than Intel could ever dream off. For the first time in the CPU history we've seen a newer CPU having worse performance than the part it replaces (price wise)!! But yeah, Intel was milking us, all hail AMD the savior

 

[Armageus]

That's what I did. I compared the 5600x to the 1700 and the 3700x.

5600x may have been price comparable, but it isn't the same position in the product stack as 3700x or 1700x. Try harder troll

 

[Vulture]

That's what I did. I compared the 5600x to the 1700 and the 3700x. That's a bad joke, AMD milking way harder than Intel could ever dream off. For the first time in the CPU history we've seen a newer CPU having worse performance than the part it replaces (price wise)!! But yeah, Intel was milking us, all hail AMD the savior

For a person who is "new" here you are quite offensive and arrogant.

 

[Journey]

What sort of performance gains have you seen - is it literally as you'd expect from the CPU change - or is the gain mroe muted, held back by other, older components?

Exactly as you'd expect, since the majority of the boards haven't had their VRM's pushed to the limits. Some of them actually got a better boost due to being able to now clock their RAM higher as the IMC's are much better. The most common has been 1700/1700X to 5600X/5800X with a couple of 5900X's as well, but all in most of the upgrades were people wanting to get that longevity as opposed to being forced to upgrade with a new board/RAM etc. I did change out a couple of cases, and in some M.2 SSD's here and there as well, great mid-life upgrades IMO.

 

[Bencher]

5600x may have been price comparable, but it isn't the same position in the product stack as 3700x or 1700x. Try harder troll

So if AMD named it 5300x you would be comparing it with the 3300x, even though it costs like 3 times as much? Okay bro, whatever, you are comparing products based on naming, im comparing them based on prices. Each to his own

 

[LePhuronn]

Who exactly are you, @Bencher ? It's quite rare to see somebody crop up out of nowhere and suck as hard on Intel's proverbials as you've been doing. Are you getting paid at all? I'm in a bit of a bind financially, so if there's some form on cash incentive for being a factually wrong Intel fangirl then hit me up the details.

 

[Vulture]

Who exactly are you, @Bencher ? It's quite rare to see somebody crop up out of nowhere and suck as hard on Intel's proverbials as you've been doing. Are you getting paid at all? I'm in a bit of a bind financially, so if there's some form on cash incentive for being a factually wrong Intel fangirl then hit me up the details.

Yeah, he is offensive from the day 1. In meltdown mode just like his skylake.

 

[Armageus]

So if AMD named it 5300x you would be comparing it with the 3300x, even though it costs like 3 times as much? Okay bro, whatever, you are comparing products based on naming, im comparing them based on prices. Each to his own

Nope - nothing to do with naming - it's about position and capability within the lineup (hence why I didn't bite with your inclusion of 8700K in the Intel comparison)

1700X, 2700X, 3800X, 5800X were all effectively AMD's high end chip (excluding the enthusiast AM4 parts / threadripper), they all had the same amount of cores, and sat in the same position in the product stack.

If you want to play at comparing the 5600X, then compare it to the 3600X, 2600X, 1600X etc. in which case it was clearly a vastly overpriced part.

 

[Bencher]

Nope - nothing to do with naming - it's about position and capability within the lineup (hence why I didn't bite with your inclusion of 8700K in the Intel comparison)

1700X, 2700X, 3800X, 5800X were all effectively AMD's high end chip (excluding the enthusiast AM4 parts / threadripper), they all had the same amount of cores, and sat in the same position in the product stack.

If you want to play at comparing the 5600X, then compare it to the 3600X, 2600X, 1600X etc. in which case it was clearly a vastly overpriced part.

Sure, its a way overpriced 3600 or an underperforming 3700x. Still, way worse than what Intel was doing in 2010 to 2017.

 

[Bencher]

Who exactly are you, @Bencher ? It's quite rare to see somebody crop up out of nowhere and suck as hard on Intel's proverbials as you've been doing. Are you getting paid at all? I'm in a bit of a bind financially, so if there's some form on cash incentive for being a factually wrong Intel fangirl then hit me up the details.

Doesn't make any difference whether im being paid or not. What I say is either right or wrong regardless of whether im paid.

Intel gave us a bigger performance increase in their worst years (2010 to 2017) than what AMD is doing right now at the 300-350€ price range (you know, the old high end mainstream). That is a fact. I just compared Cinebench scores. If you did so yourself you would have figured out by now that im correct instead of just throwing random garbo like "Intel was milking us" when AMD is doing way worse right now.

Not that im expecting to change your mind, fanboys dont care about facts so yeah...even if you checked the actual numbers you would still keep repeating the same stuff. Good luck in life my man

 

[Bencher]

Yeah, he is offensive from the day 1. In meltdown mode just like his skylake.

Yeah, im offensive to people that lie and misinform. You stop doing that, ill be the mellowest person youve ever known, I betcha

 

[Vulture]

Yeah, im offensive to people that lie and misinform. You stop doing that, ill be the mellowest person youve ever known, I betcha

Lol, fanboy talks about fanboysm, i have good idea who you are now.