Raptor Lake Leaks + Intel 4 developments

humbug · 31 Mar 2022 at 21:04

Twinz said:
Intel already took the gaming crown back and undercut AMD on pricing.

I see no indication that Intel is worried about "provoking" AMD.

Gaming performance is not as important as it used to be, you can see that from reviewers and the way that people want to see the gaming performance reviewed, few give a #### how fast the CPU is, its just "can it run my GPU" the answer to that given there is no such thing as a slow CPU these days is inevitably "Yes"

Like a lot of other things in this segment its been dumbed down for bite-sized simpleton viewing and to provide a simple answer.

cliffy · 31 Mar 2022 at 21:09

Twinz said:
Intel already took the gaming crown back and undercut AMD on pricing.

I see no indication that Intel is worried about "provoking" AMD.

"KS" sounds like desperation to me although i know they done this in teh past

humbug · 31 Mar 2022 at 21:13

The 12900K is "The best gaming CPU" period! There is just no arguing with that.

And yet everything Zen 3 Ryzen is outselling it, Intel can scream "best gaming CPU" until they go quite literally blue in the face, almost no one gives a ####.

The KS is just shouting louder at no one listening anyway.

jonneymendoza · 31 Mar 2022 at 21:14

humbug said:
The 12900K is "The best gaming CPU" period! There is just no arguing with that.

And yet everything Zen 3 Ryzen is outselling it, Intel can scream "best gaming CPU" until they go quite literally blue in the face, almost no one gives a ####.

The KS is just shouting louder at no one listening anyway.

Na my Amd Threadripper 3960x is the best!

Vulture · 31 Mar 2022 at 21:37

Intel even with reduced prices from the start can't repeat Zen 3 success that had high prices at the start, and despite that had top 5 spots in every major retailer. That means Intel will need to further reduce prices and profit to completely beat Zen 3, i wouldn't call that successful generation.

Twinz · 31 Mar 2022 at 23:10

humbug said:
The 12900K is "The best gaming CPU" period! There is just no arguing with that.

And yet everything Zen 3 Ryzen is outselling it, Intel can scream "best gaming CPU" until they go quite literally blue in the face, almost no one gives a ####.

The KS is just shouting louder at no one listening anyway.

So?

I guess, when offering inferior performance, superior sales numbers give fanboy's something to hold on to, but they do nothing for me personally.

jonneymendoza · 31 Mar 2022 at 23:12

Twinz said:
So?

I guess, when offering inferior performance, superior sales numbers give fanboy's something to hold on to, but they do nothing for me personally.

Who's the fanboy?

Joxeon · 31 Mar 2022 at 23:54

AMD spent the best part of a year fleecing customers with huge margins on the chips as evidenced by their recent ability to drop prices by 33% and still make a tidy profit and yet you guys seem happy about this.

Also @humbug how times have changed.

humbug said:
Again, so what? Intel are not adding more cores, nor are they improving performance, i don't give a #### about power efficiency, what i want is more performance, more cores, Intel are not providing that.

humbug · 1 Apr 2022 at 00:22

I haven't changed at all @Joxeon

cliffy · 1 Apr 2022 at 09:27

Joxeon said:
AMD spent the best part of a year fleecing customers with huge margins on the chips as evidenced by their recent ability to drop prices by 33% and still make a tidy profit and yet you guys seem happy about this.

Also @humbug how times have changed.

No one was getting milked as no one was forced to buy the prtoduct. At the tim,e of launch they had the superior productmm they had a right to up teh price based on that alone, i am guessing based on sales figures they decided to keep the price that high. Also re the price drop, ever thought manufacturing costs may of gone down for those parts or that they had built up a large inventory and wanted to clear it before AM5. are you privy tp the manufacturing costs at launch compared to now or know the copsts of R&D?

Twinz · 1 Apr 2022 at 11:38

cliffy said:
No one was getting milked as no one was forced to buy the prtoduct.

That definition pretty much lets all tech companies off the hook.

G J · 1 Apr 2022 at 11:52

Twinz said:
That definition pretty much lets all tech companies off the hook.

Exactly, nobody had to buy the many iterations of Skylake though many people on here where happy to keep buying it. A point is being missed though people seem ok when one company milks them/others but ohhh no not that other nasty evil company.

They way things are going some people will be clapping their hands if a 6 core 7600x releases for £250-300+...

Bencher · 1 Apr 2022 at 13:05

Gondar said:
Without AMD ADL wouldn't exist. They spend too much money on ADL architecture, not to mention software optimizations for big/little. ADL is direct answer to AMD so...

That's just a non argument. And without Intel Ryzen wouldn't exist. What does that even mean?

Fact is Intel was dominating for almost a decade and they never upped their prices. Amd increased their prices by 50% (3600 ---> 5600x) and only gave us stupendously low performance jumps at the same price point (35% improvement between 2017 and 2021 at the 300$ range). That is literally worse than the worst years of Intel (2010-2017).

Perfect_Chaos · 1 Apr 2022 at 13:06

G J said:
Exactly, nobody had to buy the many iterations of Skylake though many people on here where happy to keep buying it. A point is being missed though people seem ok when one company milks them/others but ohhh no not that other nasty evil company.

They way things are going some people will be clapping their hands if a 6 core 7600x releases for £250-300+...

I'm hoping AMD don't pull the same thing as they did before, release an overpriced 7800x with no 7700x, all that does is probably make people stump up the extra for a 7900x... which could be the plan.

As I said before though it really wouldn't surprise me if Intel have better price/performance, not just because of making use of DDR4 but the price of the chips too. We'll see.

The thing AMD will have is upgrades, someone buying new into RPL likely won't have any. Might give AMD an excuse to price the CPUs higher, slightly higher is fine but no more unless they are much faster than Intel.

Bencher · 1 Apr 2022 at 13:29

humbug said:
The 2600K was not the highest end mainstream Intel CPU at the time, the 2700K was $332, the 8700K was $360 so yes with inflation its right.

However the 9900K was $488
The 11900K was $539
The 12900K is $589

Intel are defiantly on an upward trend.

Im not disagreeing, starting with the 9900k, Intel followed AMD's footsteps in steadily increasing mainstream CPU prices.

humbug said:
AMD gave us the MT performance of an Intel HEDT CPU at $1100 for $499.
AMD also gave us better than Intel $1979 HEDT performance on mainstream for $799.

And that's kinda irrelevant, the original comment said that Intel was milking (in the years 2010-2017) by just changing sockets while AMD increases performance. Well, that is FACTUALLY wrong. We had more performance per year (at a given price point ofcourse) back in the years Intel was "miliking" than we have today with AMD. So...if Intel was milking, what do you actually call what AMD is doing today? They gave us less performance increase between 2017 to 2021 (r7 1700 to 5600x @ 300$) then Intel did between 2010-2014 or 2013-2017. I could even argue, FAR less (don't forget, the 8700k was almost twice as fast as a 4770k, while the 5600x is what, 35% faster than the 1700 in mt performance)

humbug · 1 Apr 2022 at 13:32

@Bencher provide citation with your sweeping statements or you'll just get called out for talking crap.

Joxeon said:
AMD spent the best part of a year fleecing customers with huge margins on the chips as evidenced by their recent ability to drop prices by 33% and still make a tidy profit and yet you guys seem happy about this.

Also @humbug how times have changed.

The 5600X was 90% the performance of the 3700X and anything up to 40% faster in games, it was 90% its price.

10700K: $379
5600X: $299

10900K: $488
5800X: $449

Crickets: ----
5900X: $549

" " " " ": ----
5950X: $799

No one, not one tech journalist cared about Intel being over priced by comparison.

Instead what they did was compare those prices to AMD's previous generation, as if AMD exist in a vacuum, because don't talk too much about how bad Intel are in comparison.

humbug · 1 Apr 2022 at 13:55

Look at that ^^^^^ and tell me you're still confused as to why they sold like they were made of solid gold, despite the efforts of tech journalists to put people off them.

Vulture · 1 Apr 2022 at 13:55

Bencher said:
That's just a non argument. And without Intel Ryzen wouldn't exist. What does that even mean?

Fact is Intel was dominating for almost a decade and they never upped their prices. Amd increased their prices by 50% (3600 ---> 5600x) and only gave us stupendously low performance jumps at the same price point (35% improvement between 2017 and 2021 at the 300$ range). That is literally worse than the worst years of Intel (2010-2017).

Can you introduce yourself? i'v seen your posts, you are offensive from the day 1, it is pretty clear you are not new user.

Joxeon · 1 Apr 2022 at 14:13

Perfect_Chaos said:
I'm hoping AMD don't pull the same thing as they did before, release an overpriced 7800x with no 7700x, all that does is probably make people stump up the extra for a 7900x... which could be the plan.

As I said before though it really wouldn't surprise me if Intel have better price/performance, not just because of making use of DDR4 but the price of the chips too. We'll see.

The thing AMD will have is upgrades, someone buying new into RPL likely won't have any. Might give AMD an excuse to price the CPUs higher, slightly higher is fine but no more unless they are much faster than Intel.

If you end up paying more for the zen 4 CPU, DDR5 ram which will still be expensive and quite slow and out of date in a couple of years and the boards which will be new out so not cheap vs RPL which will have discounted B and Z 600 boards with DDR4 any money you would save in the future for a drop in CPU upgrade is no more than if you went RPL then upgraded in a couple of years and going that route would probably work out cheaper and you would end up with better cheaper DDR5 when you did come to upgrade as it matures and prices fall.

Armageus · 1 Apr 2022 at 14:18

Bencher said:
Fact is Intel was dominating for almost a decade and they never upped their prices. Amd increased their prices by 50% (3600 ---> 5600x) and only gave us stupendously low performance jumps at the same price point (35% improvement between 2017 and 2021 at the 300$ range). That is literally worse than the worst years of Intel (2010-2017).

2700k - $332
3770k - $332
4770k - $339
4790k - $339
6700k - $339
7700k - $350

Definitely some price increases (even if they were only small), and other than the relatively large jump in IPC between Ivy Bridge and Devils Canyon, the performance increases year on year were lol worthy and rightly derided