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Raptor Lake Leaks + Intel 4 developments
- Thread starter g67575
- Start date
@jigger - Is this a case of the fox and grapes? Alder Lake + 16GB / 32GB DDR5 + Z690 doesn't exactly come cheap at the moment...
£600 for a 12900K, £200 for a DDR5 Z690 board. Another £130 for the DDR5 (best case). Probably another £80 for a good cooler, or likely more for water cooling. So, approx. £1,000 in total
£600 for a 12900K, £200 for a DDR5 Z690 board. Another £130 for the DDR5 (best case). Probably another £80 for a good cooler, or likely more for water cooling. So, approx. £1,000 in total
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It's just a case of delusional complete bull****, happens all the time.
If you wait a bit, the 'grapes' will get significantly cheaper.
Your dated AM4 board doesn't support the Ryzen 5000 series, so it's not like it would even be a cheap upgrade to get a Ryzen 5000 series CPU or above.
If you wait a bit, the 'grapes' will get significantly cheaper.
Your dated AM4 board doesn't support the Ryzen 5000 series, so it's not like it would even be a cheap upgrade to get a Ryzen 5000 series CPU or above.
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I mean, we keep going around the same points. To summarise, we are getting new core architectures for desktops from AMD and Intel in 2023, with new fabrication technology (with a significant transistor density increase vs previous generations). You can believe Intel's offering won't be an improvement, but it wouldn't be a reflection of reality. Both CPU gens will be designed with non-trivial improvements in IPC, which doesn't just happen by magic.
It's possible that Zen 4 will release a few months before Meteor Lake, so AMD may have a slight advantage in this regard.
It's possible that Zen 4 will release a few months before Meteor Lake, so AMD may have a slight advantage in this regard.
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Yes, you keep saying things that no one could possibly know at this point, why? It's many years away, it's irrelevant.
It also has nothing to do with the thread topic...
It makes no difference who is ahead in 5 years time, it's totally unknowable, and with tech it's never a simple 'X is always better than Y'.
It also has nothing to do with the thread topic...
It makes no difference who is ahead in 5 years time, it's totally unknowable, and with tech it's never a simple 'X is always better than Y'.
Well they've got at least 2 CPU generations planned for 7nm EUV processes. They're already building prototype Meteor Lake CPUs (mobile as far as I know). So near term, 7nm EUV CPUs are Intel's primary concern, especially beyond 2022. It's what they've talked about and tested for years now.
They have Fab 42 ready for 7nm EUV production, they are building new factories to boost production. It will be a challenge, but their spending on factories and new equipment appears to be pretty colossal, much to the disapproval of some investors, who apparently just wanted some easy, steady growth.
Intel has the financial backing of the US gov. who seem unwilling to see Intel lose any more ground to companies like TSMC.
Intel may have a problem at the end of 2022, their servers will likely struggle to compete with AMD's Zen 4 server chips... But they will recover in 2023.
They have Fab 42 ready for 7nm EUV production, they are building new factories to boost production. It will be a challenge, but their spending on factories and new equipment appears to be pretty colossal, much to the disapproval of some investors, who apparently just wanted some easy, steady growth.
Intel has the financial backing of the US gov. who seem unwilling to see Intel lose any more ground to companies like TSMC.
Intel may have a problem at the end of 2022, their servers will likely struggle to compete with AMD's Zen 4 server chips... But they will recover in 2023.
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Good point, but it's in Intel's official roadmaps and they have completed prototype designs. They are building 7nm CPUs for 2023...
The reason I was so critical of the rumoured 'Raptor Lake' is there is no evidence it's being worked on at all. The question no one has been able to answer is, if they could build an improved 10nm CPU for 2022, why release the 90 degrees celsius 12900K, at all?
Answer - They don't have improved 10nm designs for 2022. They hit a limit on what could be achieved on Intel's 10nm technology, so they added some lower power cores to keep the temps from exceeding 100 degrees C...
The reason I was so critical of the rumoured 'Raptor Lake' is there is no evidence it's being worked on at all. The question no one has been able to answer is, if they could build an improved 10nm CPU for 2022, why release the 90 degrees celsius 12900K, at all?
Answer - They don't have improved 10nm designs for 2022. They hit a limit on what could be achieved on Intel's 10nm technology, so they added some lower power cores to keep the temps from exceeding 100 degrees C...
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The 'compute' tile is what counts, as it contains the CPU cores:
http://cdn.mos.cms.futurecdn.net/kNMCrHXM2RazQcAF8vHqRG.jpg
This part is built with Intel's 7nm EUV. Source here:
https://cdn.videocardz.com/1/2021/03/Intel-Meteor-Lake-1.jpg
Maybe the 'SOC - LP' is for things like the I/O and caches. I'm sure someone on here knows what it's for?
http://cdn.mos.cms.futurecdn.net/kNMCrHXM2RazQcAF8vHqRG.jpg
This part is built with Intel's 7nm EUV. Source here:
https://cdn.videocardz.com/1/2021/03/Intel-Meteor-Lake-1.jpg
Maybe the 'SOC - LP' is for things like the I/O and caches. I'm sure someone on here knows what it's for?
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Well, I'm done with this 'rational debate', let me know when you have some actual new info about Meteor Lake, chaps 
Which has the advantage of actually existing.
Some more things to think about here:
https://www.tomshardware.com/uk/news/intel-meteor-lake-powered-on
"an SoC die packing such units as a memory controller, a PCIe controller, and a Thunderbolt controller."
Sapphire Rapids uses one type of core only, in my opinion, Intel will have no good reason to include low power 'Gracemont' cores in Meteor Lake. But, if they can manage 16 or more high power cores in desktop versions, I doubt it matters too much.
Which has the advantage of actually existing.
Some more things to think about here:
https://www.tomshardware.com/uk/news/intel-meteor-lake-powered-on
"an SoC die packing such units as a memory controller, a PCIe controller, and a Thunderbolt controller."
Sapphire Rapids uses one type of core only, in my opinion, Intel will have no good reason to include low power 'Gracemont' cores in Meteor Lake. But, if they can manage 16 or more high power cores in desktop versions, I doubt it matters too much.
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Intel's roadmaps don't mention 10nm beyond 2021 (discussion of 14nm is now irrelevant). I think you seem to be oddly stuck in the present.
You've completely ignored what I said about their existing 7nm EUV capable foundries (such as fab 42).
They are abandoning 10nm, and moving onto 7nm EUV, that's Intel's plan for 2023 and 2024.
I get that a lot of people don't care about that yet, it's more than a year away, so it's no surprise.
You seem to want to discuss anything but Intel's 7nm EUV process, which is the most important thing for Intel's plans in the coming years.
You've completely ignored what I said about their existing 7nm EUV capable foundries (such as fab 42).
They are abandoning 10nm, and moving onto 7nm EUV, that's Intel's plan for 2023 and 2024.
I get that a lot of people don't care about that yet, it's more than a year away, so it's no surprise.
You seem to want to discuss anything but Intel's 7nm EUV process, which is the most important thing for Intel's plans in the coming years.
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If you don't think 'Intel 4' / or 'Intel 3' will be enough, Intel thinks the transistor density of their 7nm EUV technology will ultimately have '202-250 million transistors per square millimeter'. Source here:
https://en.wikichip.org/wiki/7_nm_lithography_process#P1276
That's double that of their current 'Intel 7' process.
Intel's 10nm transistor density estimates turned out to be pretty accurate, even back in 2017.
5nm EUV is currently estimated to achieve '130-230 million transistors per square millimeter', according to a Wikichip. So, these process technologies are very similar in this regard.
https://en.wikichip.org/wiki/7_nm_lithography_process#P1276
That's double that of their current 'Intel 7' process.
Intel's 10nm transistor density estimates turned out to be pretty accurate, even back in 2017.
5nm EUV is currently estimated to achieve '130-230 million transistors per square millimeter', according to a Wikichip. So, these process technologies are very similar in this regard.
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@Dave2150 - Fine, but I would question how it's possible to add support for 'Raptor Lake' or Meteor Lake CPUs yet, when these aren't completed products (even prototypes wouldn't be available to anyone but Intel). It sounds like they improved DDR5 support + XMP Profiles and some text saying you have 'x' CPU installed.
In effect, it sounds like placeholder text.
I get that some people want an easy upgrade from Alder Lake, but Intel's effort is going into 7nm EUV technology and Meteor Lake. Don't get why people aren't hyped for this, but maybe it's still too soon.
In effect, it sounds like placeholder text.
I get that some people want an easy upgrade from Alder Lake, but Intel's effort is going into 7nm EUV technology and Meteor Lake. Don't get why people aren't hyped for this, but maybe it's still too soon.
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I like how there's no way to verify what you are saying, but you say it with confidence anyway 
There doesn't need to be a 'global conspiracy' for wishful thinking to be incorrect.
It's more likely the developers added some place holder text if/when these CPUs release.
The headline for this update (v6.60) is 'Alder Lake Optimizations and DDR5 Support', which is what it actually focuses on. Link here:
https://www.aida64.com/news/pr/aida64-v660-press-release
Maybe if there were some verified screenshots showing early Raptor Lake or Meteor Lake benchmarks in AIDA64, this would seem more believable.
There doesn't need to be a 'global conspiracy' for wishful thinking to be incorrect.
It's more likely the developers added some place holder text if/when these CPUs release.
The headline for this update (v6.60) is 'Alder Lake Optimizations and DDR5 Support', which is what it actually focuses on. Link here:
https://www.aida64.com/news/pr/aida64-v660-press-release
Maybe if there were some verified screenshots showing early Raptor Lake or Meteor Lake benchmarks in AIDA64, this would seem more believable.
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You'll probably keep insisting it exists in January 2023, even if Intel says nothing.
It is true that Intel *might* still announce something at CES in January 2022.
The thing to bear in mind, is that Alder Lake is a big deal for Intel, they can keep it going for a year, or 18 months.
It is true that Intel *might* still announce something at CES in January 2022.
The thing to bear in mind, is that Alder Lake is a big deal for Intel, they can keep it going for a year, or 18 months.
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Not sure about the driver tbh. If Raptor Lake does exist, why did they pull the driver? Those lines of text look like hardware IDs (with no specific code for each platform), in other words, easy to add and remove as required. Intel can add or remove things that they might release in the future, presumably to ensure everything has a unique hardware ID.
Lunar Lake is so far off, there's no way they have a working driver for that.
Lunar Lake is so far off, there's no way they have a working driver for that.
I'd 2nd this, either we get nothing, or maybe a small improvement on Alder Lake? I'm curious to see if they can integrate their power improvements to into Golden Cove.
Loads of excitement, when HEDT and server Golden Cove are still 6 months away...
Intel probably only needs a 5% improvement in performance, to stay ahead of AMD in 2022.