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Raptor Lake Leaks + Intel 4 developments

Dicehunter said:
The 12900KS was just leaked to be coming soon to counter AMD's V-Cache refresh that will offer a 300MHz bump over the "standard" 12900K, If that's all Intel need to counter AMD's refresh I highly doubt they'll be replacing their 1 month old AL CPU's so soon.
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Lol thats interesting if it end up being true. Seems like something they might announce at CES.

Really scraping the barrel if it's correct. I wonder if they will do anything to keep the insane temps under control?
 
The big.little design is only suited to mobile devices with limited cooling / power constraints, it's a poor design for desktop processors.

12900KS or Raptor Lake in 2022? Intel fans - Yes, both at the same time

The price is probably gonna be £800-£900 lol. So much for the silicon lottery.
 
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Gamers and a lot of other people don't care massively about multithreaded performance though. It's mostly something you benefit from in specific workloads, load Unreal Engine development, or rendering.
 
Maybe Jigger's a troll, but Intel is already ahead in single core performance and in most games. Intel needs a higher quantity of these higher performing cores, not low power ones.
 
jigger said:
Barely ahead against EOL parts. Intel need 16 big cores. 8 cores are simple not enough in the current year.
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Still ahead of Zen 3 for now, I bet even if the E-Cores were disabled.

Here you go, the 12900K is about 6-7% ahead at lower resolutions, even with just the 8 Golden Coves enabled:
https://tpucdn.com/review/intel-cor...mages/relative-performance-games-1280-720.png

Presumably, a similar story for the 12700K. Nearly identical performance at higher resolutions, but that is no surprise.
 
I think Nvidia will keep going with new models of Ampere, until AMD releases their next series. They are making so much money already, so to they don't need to change their lineup much. Ampere Next is scheduled for presumably the 2nd half of 2022, presumably Q4.
 
I doubt it would work out cheaper (5nm semiconductor foundries are expensive to build and run), the main thing AMD and Nvidia (and Intel too) need to focus on in 2022 is volume. The RTX 3080 TI and 3090 are very fast graphics cards that handle 4K resolution very well (so does the RTX 3080), to some extend I think the display technology and prices need to improve, consumers would need to have 6/8K monitors or TVs at affordable prices, to benefit from additional performance improvements.

28" 8K monitors would be a milestone in terms of quality, this is the point where aliasing (basically graphical errors caused by how polygons are rendered) would (in theory) be invisible to the human eye.

As far as I know, whether human vision could see any further detail beyond this point with this type of display, is a question that remains unanswered.

It's true that you need higher resolution for VR displays though, due to the distance between the user and the device's display.
 
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Grim5 said:
Because the graphics cards are too slow. Learn to see a GPU bottleneck
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This is mostly true, but I think there's a cache bottleneck on today's CPUs too. Will be interesting to see what difference Zen3D makes. I wonder if there will be Golden Cove CPUs with more cache, or if cache improvements will be left to Meteor Lake. Presumably, this would be possible with HEDT Golden Cove CPUs.
 
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Intel haven't said anything about it yet though. If even they can't 'get hard' for it, then who can?

Best they could do was say, look, it runs this thing called Windows, that you might've heard of.
 
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True, they will do well with Alder Lake for a few more months, why wouldn't they?

Still decent single core performance on the P-Cores.
 
I wonder if they should just delay Raptor Lake now until the 1st half of 2023, and redesign it for 7nm EUV. It really depends if these cache rumours are true, and how much they can boost the L3 cache by. But the problem with this approach, is that Intel likes to have a new CPU architecture when they move to a new fabrication technology. Switching to 7nm EUV early could dampen excitement for Intel's 14th generation (Meteor Lake).

Intel is usually quite open about new architectures, and so far, it looks like the 13th gen will use a slightly improved version of Golden Cove.
 
Golden Cove cores with more cache... I can see this performing reasonably well and actually being feasible. I hope they don't go overboard on the E-Cores though...

It's a logical upgrade, that they will need to out perform the increased cache of the 5800X3D. If they can push up the clocks really high as well, maybe they won't be miles away from Zen 4's performance (at least, upto 8 cores).

I think the new 700 series motherboards will add new power features most likely, nothing too dramatic in terms of performance. It will probably just allow Raptor Lake CPUs to run at a slightly lower voltage (most of the time).
 
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Given the choice, it's much better to spend the money on a higher end CPU, than a higher end motherboard. Especially true if running at stock/turbo settings rather than overclocking.
 
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It's easier with AMD, as the mid tier chipsets like B550 support overclocking, unlike mid their Intel boards. You just need to get a board that supplies enough power to max out the boost speeds (with VRM heatsinks), and save some money for a decent cooler. Even if you don't do this, I'd expect that you'd probably only miss out on 200-300mhz of core speed (so probably just a few percent in real-world performance). With AMD, their CPUs already have decent performance without needing to configure BIOS settings.

It's a fair bet that most Zen 4 CPUs will be able to handle 5ghz with little to no tweaking, Intel's unlocked CPUs could start to look somewhat redundant.
 
I'd be more interested if Intel said they were going to improve their 'Intel 7' process, which everyone else calls 10nm.

I suppose Intel doesn't really have to announce anything until Q3/Q4 2022.

If Intel is still trying to win the Core War in 2022, they're gonna have a bad time.
 
Is it just an Alder Lake refresh (we know the Sapphire Rapids server CPUs are gonna use Golden Cove) with more cache though :)

Maybe worth it if they can do turbo speeds on all P-cores of 5ghz or above (at sensible temperatures!), with a nice chunk of extra L3 cache.

So, maybe 300-400mhz higher turbo speeds for the whole lineup.
 
Raptor Lake will do well until Zen 4 launches, so I'd guess Intel will try to rush it out. Should be able to, given that it's still based on 10nm / 'Intel 7'. So, Intel shouldn't be having any production / yield issues.

I think the disappointing thing is that they probably aren't beefing up the P-core count for Raptor Lake. Intel is already ahead in multithreading, but higher multithreading performance by itself a fast CPU does not make. The BCLKed 12400 demonstrates this by beating the higher end products in many games.

So, I think the Raptor Lake series will offer a 10-20% boost in performance maximum, vs Alder Lake at stock turbo boost speeds.

Maybe the smartest thing for Intel would be to make Raptor Lake a desktop launch / design only. Then, maybe they could do SKUs with more P-Cores.

I don't think it's done them any favours making Alder Lake so much geared towards higher multicore performance on laptops, which is presumably the reason for the 8 E-Core design that comes with the nearly all i5/ i7 12th gen mobile CPUs. Some of these chips have TDPs of 115w, seems a lot for a laptop.

The 12900HK (mobile chip) appears to be throttling down from 5ghz to 4.2ghz, with temps reaching 99 degrees C. Source:
https://wccftech.com/intel-core-i9-...-cpu-up-to-29-faster-than-amd-ryzen-9-5900hx/
 
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