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Raptor Lake Leaks + Intel 4 developments

It is going to be interesting to see the impact of 3D cache on DDR5 RAM requirements as it seems to reduce the need for the fastest latency RAM and therefore the overall cost. Could be quite a factor in buying decisions.
 
Dave2150 said:
Confirmation that Raptor Lake will support DDR4 motherboards - making it likely a cheaper alternative to the expensive DDR5 Alderlake/Raptorlake/Zen4 options for those seeking the best performance per watt.

Source: https://videocardz.com/newz/asrocks-next-gen-z790-h770-motherboard-lineup-includes-ddr4-variants

Worth noting that Raptorlake is a drop in upgrade for Z690 owners, and will also be compatible with the new upcoming Z790 boards.
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Come back to me when they decide to support 3-4 CPU drop in upgrades
 
Troezar said:
It is going to be interesting to see the impact of 3D cache on DDR5 RAM requirements as it seems to reduce the need for the fastest latency RAM and therefore the overall cost. Could be quite a factor in buying decisions.
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The Zen 4 launching this year will require DDR5, which is far more expensive than DDR4, even at the lower end of the DDR5 speed spectrum. Zen4 with 3D cache is estimated to launch in late 2023, so nothing that's coming any time soon.

I'm very interested to see how Zen4 performance is affected by 4800Mhz DDR5, vs 6600Mhz DDR5 etc. Will it be as sensitive to latency as Zen3 was, with large performance increases thanks to infinity fabric scaling? Lots of exciting reviews to look forward to :)
 
Dave2150 said:
The Zen 4 launching this year will require DDR5, which is far more expensive than DDR4, even at the lower end of the DDR5 speed spectrum. Zen4 with 3D cache is estimated to launch in late 2023, so nothing that's coming any time soon.

I'm very interested to see how Zen4 performance is affected by 4800Mhz DDR5, vs 6600Mhz DDR5 etc. Will it be as sensitive to latency as Zen3 was, with large performance increases thanks to infinity fabric scaling? Lots of exciting reviews to look forward to :)
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Indeed, it's potentially going to narrow the pricing gap. Could have a real affect on the DDR market if there's not much to be gained with the faster SKUs. Promises to be much better for the consumer with good competition from all sides.
 
Dave2150 said:
The Zen 4 launching this year will require DDR5, which is far more expensive than DDR4, even at the lower end of the DDR5 speed spectrum. Zen4 with 3D cache is estimated to launch in late 2023, so nothing that's coming any time soon.
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The difference being you spent £500 on 32GB of DDR5 6400 for little to no benefit, where as today you can buy a kit of DDR5 6000 that OC's to 7000+ C36 for under £250, and that price is dropping weekly due to weak demand. I find it hilarious that you are now saying DDR5 is going to be far more expensive, when if anything the price difference is going to be much lower than it was when ADL was launched. A bit like PCI-E 5.0, still nothing on the market that you can plug into the board an use. First SSD's are due at AM5 launch, pretty funny really.
 
Robert896r1 said:
Subtimings on ddr5 matter a lot, even more so than ddr4. Getting the most out out of ddr5 just by buying a higher xmp bin is going to leave people disappointed.
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Have you ran any of the Hynix IC Corsair Vengeance 5600/6000 modules? Just curious as I heard some good things about them, and they are now one of the cheapest/the cheapest on the market.

Robert896r1 said:
We already knew RPL was going to support DDR4 so I'm not sure what the news is.
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An excuse to make a post, and mention some nonsense about AMD as it irritates him so much.
 
Dave2150 said:
The Zen 4 launching this year will require DDR5, which is far more expensive than DDR4, even at the lower end of the DDR5 speed spectrum. Zen4 with 3D cache is estimated to launch in late 2023, so nothing that's coming any time soon.

I'm very interested to see how Zen4 performance is affected by 4800Mhz DDR5, vs 6600Mhz DDR5 etc. Will it be as sensitive to latency as Zen3 was, with large performance increases thanks to infinity fabric scaling? Lots of exciting reviews to look forward to :)
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looking around DDR5 prices have dropped quite a bit since you decided to be the early adopter , I like how you changed tone suddenly about DDR4 :cry: just to take snipe about AM5 only being DDR5 didnt worry you when you bought some early and when prices were way higher :confused:
 
Journey said:
Have you ran any of the Hynix IC Corsair Vengeance 5600/6000 modules? Just curious as I heard some good things about them, and they are now one of the cheapest/the cheapest on the market.



An excuse to make a post, and mention some nonsense about AMD as it irritates him so much.
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I even sold one of the kingston 40/6000 kits on here! The cheaper fury x. For now, you don't need much more than that kit to hit around 7000 on a 2dimm z690 board. That's daily stable, not some one run special btw. The guy who did the 12900k testing with me in the gaming results I posted on here used that kit also.

What is intersting for now is not knowing where the bottleneck sits for higher mem performance. An interesting test will be using that kit on a z790/13900k and seeing if there's more headroom or if we're limited by the IC's. Hynix is working on a new IC that's performance oriented that should be out around RPL timeframe. My main interst in RPL/z790 is around the mem side of the things. CPU performance is pretty easy to map out. There will be one surprise though.
 
Robert896r1 said:
I even sold one of the kingston 40/6000 kits on here! The cheaper fury x. For now, you don't need much more than that kit to hit around 7000 on a 2dimm z690 board. That's daily stable, not some one run special btw. The guy who did the 12900k testing with me in the gaming results I posted on here used that kit also.

What is intersting for now is not knowing where the bottleneck sits for higher mem performance. An interesting test will be using that kit on a z790/13900k and seeing if there's more headroom or if we're limited by the IC's. Hynix is working on a new IC that's performanc oriented that should be out around RPL timeframe. My main interst in RPL/z790 is around the mem side of the things. CPU performance is pretty easy to map out. There will be one surprise though.
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Yeah IMC seems very weak on ADL, and the lack or 4x DIMM support is really killing it for some of the designs I have been asked to do, as you just can't get above 4800MHz-5200MHz which means a big loss to potential performance for more workstation orientated machines. It's fine for tweakers and gamers with only two modules but I really hope RPL fixes this problem.
 
That's more of a board design issue than ADL imc. Boards are running daisy chain topology for 4 dimm which is awful for signal integrity with 4 slots populated. Signal integrity is a massive concern for DDR5. They should switch to T Topology but probably won't due to the extra cost/engineering.

Intel can't dictate board topology design.
 
Robert896r1 said:
That's more of a board design issue than ADL imc. Boards are running daisy chain topology for 4 dimm which is awful for signal integrity with 4 slots populated. Signal integrity is a massive concern for DDR5. They should switch to T Topology but probably won't due to the extra cost/engineering.

Intel can't dictate board topology design.
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It's both IMC and board, but the IMC is an issue and Intel know as much. We have board partners who we work with that have said as much, and RPL should address the situation even on the old Z690/B660 boards. I am sure we'll see by the end of the year though, then Intel might hold their hands up and stop laying the blame on its board partners.
 
Dave2150 said:
The Zen 4 launching this year will require DDR5, which is far more expensive than DDR4, even at the lower end of the DDR5 speed spectrum. Zen4 with 3D cache is estimated to launch in late 2023, so nothing that's coming any time soon.

I'm very interested to see how Zen4 performance is affected by 4800Mhz DDR5, vs 6600Mhz DDR5 etc. Will it be as sensitive to latency as Zen3 was, with large performance increases thanks to infinity fabric scaling? Lots of exciting reviews to look forward to :)
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Zen4 3D is being launched this year apparently plus DDR5 prices dropping Also AM5 motherboards are reportedly cheaper plus they will have longevity
 
Raichu says Intel is already planning a 13900KS (because of course they are) and at this stage they are targeting a 6ghz boost clock for it
 
cliffy said:
If the KS is targeting 6Ghz i do not see the k doing it out the box
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Would be a great marketing headline for Intel if they could manage it. Perhaps that is why they will push the KS out as fast as possible, MHz = sales right?

As for the standard K part, I doubt they'll be pushing much faster speeds with the extra cache and cores on the package without potentially disabling features/cores, or pushing the power limits even more of the time.
 
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