Raptor Lake Leaks + Intel 4 developments

Robert896r1 · 12 Jul 2022 at 18:05

g67575 said:
AMD looks set to catch with Intel, when Zen 4 is released. I think Intel's 13th gen could end up with higher singlethreaded performance, but only when clocked over 5.0ghz, so these parts won't be cheap or easy to cool.

It depends really. I think the 13th gen and Zen4 at the same clock speeds will give similar performance, so AMD's ability to compete at the enthusiast level end may depend on overclocking >5ghz, or maybe a premium super clocked edition at some point. It looks like 5.5ghz is going to roughly be the limit for both companies, excluding liquid nitrogen cooling

Intel won't be easily beaten by Zen4, but they will likely fall behind on gaming performance, with the release of Zen 4 CPUs + v-cache. It's quite easy to predict that, because the 5800X3D was already getting higher minimum framerates in some titles, than the much more power hungry, hotter running 12900KS. Power consumption comparison here:

https://tpucdn.com/review/amd-ryzen-7-5800x3d/images/power-multithread.png

So you went from talking to about power draw in relation to gaming performance to showing a Cinebench comparison for power draw.

A comparison in which the 12900ks scores absolutely decimate the 5800x3d because CB was already running in L3 and the additional cache doesn’t help?

Maybe it’s time to throw the readers a reminder that you made the clowniest thread on here in recent memory where intel was going to cancel RPL purely based on your feelings lol

Joxeon · 12 Jul 2022 at 18:26

cliffy said:
I expect they will keep the same price as AM4 wil be for budget and teh AMD platform will be cheaper alrogether compared to the Intel higher end products

How will AMDs platform be cheaper this time around when its DDR5 only and brand new boards with pcie gen 5.0 vs Intels RPL which can be run on a year old discounted 600 series boards and DDR4?

Bencher · 12 Jul 2022 at 19:19

g67575 said:
AMD looks set to catch with Intel, when Zen 4 is released. I think Intel's 13th gen could end up with higher singlethreaded performance, but only when clocked over 5.0ghz, so these parts won't be cheap or easy to cool.

It depends really. I think the 13th gen and Zen4 at the same clock speeds will give similar performance, so AMD's ability to compete at the enthusiast level end may depend on overclocking >5ghz, or maybe a premium super clocked edition at some point. It looks like 5.5ghz is going to roughly be the limit for both companies, excluding liquid nitrogen cooling

Intel won't be easily beaten by Zen4, but they will likely fall behind on gaming performance, with the release of Zen 4 CPUs + v-cache. It's quite easy to predict that, because the 5800X3D was already getting higher minimum framerates in some titles, than the much more power hungry, hotter running 12900KS. Power consumption comparison here:

https://tpucdn.com/review/amd-ryzen-7-5800x3d/images/power-multithread.png

You do realize that the indeed extremely power hungry 12900ks is more EFFICIENT than the 5800x 3d according to your charts, right? Boy, isnt that something. Makes you wonder

arknor · 12 Jul 2022 at 19:38

g67575 said:
AMD looks set to catch with Intel, when Zen 4 is released. I think Intel's 13th gen could end up with higher singlethreaded performance, but only when clocked over 5.0ghz, so these parts won't be cheap or easy to cool.

The only thing AMD is better at than Intel is trying to derail sentiment around the internet with false BS.

Intel domainttes single threads, dominates multiple threads. dominates in actual gaming power usage......

Zen4 if amd is lucky might catch up wit the IPC performance of 12th gen

uscool · 12 Jul 2022 at 20:03

arknor said:
The only thing AMD is better at than Intel is trying to derail sentiment around the internet with false BS.

Intel domainttes single threads, dominates multiple threads. dominates in actual gaming power usage......

Zen4 if amd is lucky might catch up wit the IPC performance of 12th gen

I'd be worried if it wasn't when zen3 was released in 2020

cliffy · 12 Jul 2022 at 20:10

Joxeon said:
How will AMDs platform be cheaper this time around when its DDR5 only and brand new boards with pcie gen 5.0 vs Intels RPL which can be run on a year old discounted 600 series boards and DDR4?

Because AMD's platform will last multiple generations and the motherboards will be cheaper (even Intel are reportedily worried about this). I guess if you are used to buying a new motherboard every other generation you got used to it but as AMD stated they over engineered the motherboards to provide longevity, therefore in the longterm cheaper then teh oposition.

arknor · 12 Jul 2022 at 20:16

cliffy said:
Because AMD's platform will last multiple generations and the motherboards will be cheaper (even Intel are reportedily worried about this). I guess if you are used to buying a new motherboard every other generation you got used to it but as AMD stated they over engineered the motherboards to provide longevity, therefore in the longterm cheaper then teh oposition.

over engineered motherboards is absolute marketing guff

uscool · 12 Jul 2022 at 20:19

arknor said:
over engineered motherboards is absolute marketing guff

As consumer it's what I like to hear

Well, we’ve been extremely pleased with how AM4 has evolved….we said we would keep that socket for a long time and we have. We continue to believe that it has been good for the community and frankly, it’s been good for us as well. As we bring things along, it was time to do a socket transition for the new I/O in the new technology, but I think strategy-wise, it should be similar. I don’t have an exact number of years but I would say that you should expect that AM5 will be a long-lived platform as AM4 has been

This from the interview
AM5 will have 24 usable PCIe Lanes, 28 total, guy in the top left "oh isn't that just marketing, why is it so over engineered? Intel only have 16, so you only need 16" Good Grief he even looks angry after making this idiotic statement.

First of all, whatever your name is, i don't care, Intel splits those PCIe lanes between the GPU and NVMe, so if you have a GPU and an NVMe you only get X8 for the GPU, with AM5 if you run an NVMe and GPU you get the full X16 for the GPU.

cliffy · 12 Jul 2022 at 20:28

arknor said:
over engineered motherboards is absolute marketing guff

Simple answer to this , no its not. No point debating it

Bencher · 12 Jul 2022 at 20:31

cliffy said:
Because AMD's platform will last multiple generations and the motherboards will be cheaper (even Intel are reportedily worried about this). I guess if you are used to buying a new motherboard every other generation you got used to it but as AMD stated they over engineered the motherboards to provide longevity, therefore in the longterm cheaper then teh oposition.

What longevity? Like the am4 one? Lol no thanks.

Me and 2 of my friends with b350s sold them and upgraded to alderlake. Zen 3 support wasn't even on the cards until very recently. By the time they decided to support x370 and b350 zen 3 was already 2 years old. Im sorry but thats atrocious support.

And lets not even mention the whole x470 b450 thing... The internet had to drag them kicking and screaming for them to actually provide the support they promised.

Yeah, pretty good longevity

Joxeon · 12 Jul 2022 at 20:33

cliffy said:
Because AMD's platform will last multiple generations and the motherboards will be cheaper (even Intel are reportedily worried about this). I guess if you are used to buying a new motherboard every other generation you got used to it but as AMD stated they over engineered the motherboards to provide longevity, therefore in the longterm cheaper then teh oposition.

The socket will last a few generations but how long will the boards last, remember AMD tried to discontinue 400 series support until a backlash and 300 series support was artificially blocked until Intel started to put pressure on the sales.

You have to remember that Intels equivalent performing CPUs were over £100 Cheaper until AMD slashed prices so if a 13400F at £170 vs 7600X at £300 or a 13600k at £300 vs a 7800X at £450 etc then that's your board saving right there.

cliffy · 12 Jul 2022 at 20:44

Bencher said:
What longevity? Like the am4 one? Lol no thanks.

Me and 2 of my friends with b350s sold them and upgraded to alderlake. Zen 3 support wasn't even on the cards until very recently. By the time they decided to support x370 and b350 zen 3 was already 2 years old. Im sorry but thats atrocious support.

And lets not even mention the whole x470 b450 thing... The internet had to drag them kicking and screaming for them to actually provide the support they promised.

Yeah, pretty good longevity

And they cleared learned from it as 5800x3D now runs on x370, so yeah longevity even if there was a blip

uscool · 12 Jul 2022 at 20:48

Bencher said:
What longevity? Like the am4 one? Lol no thanks.

Me and 2 of my friends with b350s sold them and upgraded to alderlake. Zen 3 support wasn't even on the cards until very recently. By the time they decided to support x370 and b350 zen 3 was already 2 years old. Im sorry but thats atrocious support.

And lets not even mention the whole x470 b450 thing... The internet had to drag them kicking and screaming for them to actually provide the support they promised.

Yeah, pretty good longevity

I don't shill on either I go with performance and cost if both are performing similarly I would say I lean towards AMD more likely hood I will have option to drop in another CPU in the years ahead instead of having no option other than having to buy another board

g67575 · 12 Jul 2022 at 20:58

arknor said:
The only thing AMD is better at than Intel is trying to derail sentiment around the internet with false BS.

Intel domainttes single threads, dominates multiple threads. dominates in actual gaming power usage......

Zen4 if amd is lucky might catch up wit the IPC performance of 12th gen

Intel have only has an IPC advantage with Golden Cove cores, which is what the 13th generation is using, but clocked higher.

They will probably lose this advantage against Zen 4, which has an 8-10% IPC increase vs Zen 3.

In many games, AMD already caught up with the Intel, with the 5800X3D. Despite being cheaper and using less power than the 12900K or KS.

In this case, the increased L3 cache is significantly more beneficial than Intel's E-cores for gaming.

arknor · 12 Jul 2022 at 20:59

uscool said:
As consumer it's what I like to hear

Well, we’ve been extremely pleased with how AM4 has evolved….we said we would keep that socket for a long time and we have. We continue to believe that it has been good for the community and frankly, it’s been good for us as well. As we bring things along, it was time to do a socket transition for the new I/O in the new technology, but I think strategy-wise, it should be similar. I don’t have an exact number of years but I would say that you should expect that AM5 will be a long-lived platform as AM4 has been

This from the interview
AM5 will have 24 usable PCIe Lanes, 28 total, guy in the top left "oh isn't that just marketing, why is it so over engineered? Intel only have 16, so you only need 16" Good Grief he even looks angry after making this idiotic statement.

First of all, whatever your name is, i don't care, Intel splits those PCIe lanes between the GPU and NVMe, so if you have a GPU and an NVMe you only get X8 for the GPU, with AM5 if you run an NVMe and GPU you get the full X16 for the GPU.

yes exactly! precisely the AMD fanboi in the corner screams and shouts whilst wearing his lisa sui T-Shirt
meanwhile in the real world

AMD Issues Fix and Workaround for Ryzen's fTPM Stuttering Issues

AMD breaks the silence, issues fix and temporary workaround

www.tomshardware.com

cliffy · 12 Jul 2022 at 21:03

arknor said:
yes exactly! precisely the AMD fanboi in the corner screams and shouts whilst wearing his lisa sui T-Shirt
meanwhile in the real world

AMD Issues Fix and Workaround for Ryzen's fTPM Stuttering Issues

AMD breaks the silence, issues fix and temporary workaround

www.tomshardware.com

Oh come on, you call other fanboi's but really thats a little rich coming from you. Just like i use IOSand Android i also use Amd and Intel (do not currently have an AMD graphics card though, exclusively Nvidia for the moment). I personally just do not liek upgrading teh Intel systems very often as i begrudge having to buy a new mobo every other year. With regards to yoru quoted article have Intel not had issues with most generatiosn also?????

uscool · 12 Jul 2022 at 21:04

arknor said:
yes exactly! precisely the AMD fanboi in the corner screams and shouts whilst wearing his lisa sui T-Shirt
meanwhile in the real world

AMD Issues Fix and Workaround for Ryzen's fTPM Stuttering Issues

AMD breaks the silence, issues fix and temporary workaround

www.tomshardware.com

Yeah but it's fixed ? Pretty sure when alder lake was released it had issues with games crashing ?? And it got fixed neither is immune. These companies are big enough to fix issues so it really doesn't bother me or decides who I go with

Like I mentioned before I don't side on either and go with whoever performs better and cost , I lean towards AMD of course the performance needs to match is because I know the socket will be supported longer

Intel's 12th Gen News keeps getting worse... this is a BIG issue!

New Customers Exclusive – Get a Free 240gb SSD at Micro Center: https://micro.center/23e637Micro Center Custom PC Builder: https://micro.center/d93be5Get you...

youtu.be

arknor · 12 Jul 2022 at 21:09

cliffy said:
Oh come on, you call other fanboi's but really thats a little rich coming from you. Just like i use IOSand Android i also use Amd and Intel (do not currently have an AMD graphics card though, exclusively Nvidia for the moment). I personally just do not liek upgrading teh Intel systems very often as i begrudge having to buy a new mobo every other year. With regards to yoru quoted article have Intel not had issues with most generatiosn also?????

well he came in with the

guy in the top left "oh isn't that just marketing, why is it so over engineered? Intel only have 16, so you only need 16" Good Grief he even looks angry after making this idiotic statement.

your basically all here derailing a thread that's not even about AMD in the first place

uscool said:
Pretty sure when alder lake was released it had issues with games crashing ?? And it got fixed neither is immune. These companies are big enough to fix issues so it really doesn't bother me or decides who I go with

Pretty sure that wasn't an issue with intels hardware but with windows and how games offloaded code to different cores

uscool · 12 Jul 2022 at 21:10

arknor said:
well he came in with the

your basically all here derailing a thread that's not even about AMD in the first place

Pretty sure that wasn't an issue with intels hardware but with windows and how games offloaded code to different cores

But it effected running on intel hardware and intel had to work with Microsoft to sort it , so yes for me it's an intel issue if I own intel hardware and they need to sort it and work with Microsoft to sort it

arknor · 12 Jul 2022 at 21:15

uscool said:
But it effected running on intel hardware and intel had to work with Microsoft to sort it , so yes for me it's an intel issue if I own intel hardware and they need to sort it and work with Microsoft to sort it

yea and it got sorted fast, how long was ryzen around for again? years?

I don't get why you all need to come in here and bash intel anyway

The post that started it all https://forums.overclockers.co.uk/threads/raptor-lake-leaks.18941625/post-35720361
probably should have been in the AMD thread it's not really a raptor lake leak