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Raptor Lake Leaks + Intel 4 developments
- Thread starter g67575
- Start date
Caporegime
You mean you're not? What about all the insider knowledge?
I think we'd need to wait to see the performance of AMD's V-cache CPUs to see if these can compete with Alder Lake on price / performance...
AMD can still get good performance out of DDR4 for another year, I think mostly because DDR5 isn't running in 'gear 1' mode yet, with Alder Lake CPUs.
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If Intel can ready a 7nm CPU generation for release at the end of 2022, I think they will (that isn't Meteor Lake). Products based on the initial 7nm fab tech. were delayed by a year, but were originally planned for 2021 (there were defects which caused yield issues). It could be that they still don't know if 7nm yields will be sufficient to release a new series at the end of the year.
If they can't release the next gen by the end of the year, it would probably make more sense to delay the launch until Q1 2023, rather than rush out something inferior, especially as it's very likely Zen 4 desktop CPUs will release by this point.
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Soldato
Nothing on Intel 7nm (Intel 4) is coming until 2023, Intel have already stated as much. The interesting side of 7nm is the + variant slated for H2 '23, also now known as 'Intel 3' this is indicated to have a 14% PPW over 'Intel 4' just 6-9 months later. But again to quote Intel directly, they state "Intel is reaffirming that it intends to return to leadership performance in semiconductors in 2025" which means it needs to be besting the TSMC 3nm/2nm process by that time and in volume. If anyone can do it Intel can, they have the resources and the knowledge, they just needed refocusing to catch up.
Nope, they were specifically referring to Meteor Lake in 2023. They haven't ruled out 7nm CPUs in 2022. They basically don't have a roadmap for 2022 yet though...
Here's what Intel's previous CEO said back in 2020:
https://uk.pcmag.com/news-analysis/127899/intel-sorry-but-our-7nm-chips-will-be-delayed-to-2022-2023
It certainly looks like Intel thinks their 7nm EUV tech will have a lot of mileage, I doubt will will see 'Intel 3' based CPUs until 2024 though.
Here's what Intel's previous CEO said back in 2020:
https://uk.pcmag.com/news-analysis/127899/intel-sorry-but-our-7nm-chips-will-be-delayed-to-2022-2023
It certainly looks like Intel thinks their 7nm EUV tech will have a lot of mileage, I doubt will will see 'Intel 3' based CPUs until 2024 though.
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Soldato
So why would you quote the previous CEO, who was known to stretch the truth all of the time, look at how often he said 10nm was 'on track' you could, I mean it is possible, just quote the current one???
Pat Gelsinger
“I've had the opportunity to personally examine progress on Intel's 7nm technology over the last week. Based on initial reviews, I am pleased with the progress made on the health and recovery of the 7nm program. I am confident that the majority of our 2023 products will be manufactured internally,”
And you could then just look up the IDM 2.0 strategy, and what was said by Intel on their conference call for investors, stating that 2023 was the release window for 7nm. Or you could just find more ways of being wrong.
tbf, that article does say late 2022/early 2023 
Here's what the last CEO said “The primary driver is the yield of Intel's 7nm process, which based on recent data, is now trending approximately twelve months behind the company's internal target.”
I'm not sure it would be in Intel's interests to discuss 7nm CPUs details yet, at least until the entire Alder Lake series has been released for at least a few months.
Here's what the last CEO said “The primary driver is the yield of Intel's 7nm process, which based on recent data, is now trending approximately twelve months behind the company's internal target.”
I'm not sure it would be in Intel's interests to discuss 7nm CPUs details yet, at least until the entire Alder Lake series has been released for at least a few months.
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Soldato
Intel discuss the upcoming process nodes continuously, to advise steak holders and partners where they are, and how they are progressing. Hence the fabrication from Bob Swan about 10nm leading to the now current CEO having to be much more transparent on the real progress with 7nm, which of you believed Bob Swan it has already been out nearly 18 months.
7nm is 2023, end of discussion really, until Intel say it is either delayed or expedited.
7nm is 2023, end of discussion really, until Intel say it is either delayed or expedited.
Soldato
A test chip at 31mm2, with 1/3 the density of transistors required to make it useable at desktop level, and they've stated it's pre-production. Call me back at the end of 2022 when they've actually got it working properly.
Intel fixed the defect that lead to yield problems with 7nm back in January 2021 under their last CEO. This is what he said "By re-architecting these steps, we've been able to resolve the defects". Link here:
https://hothardware.com/news/intel-...p-woes-alder-lake-on-track-for-2h-2021-launch
It's interesting anyway, even if it doesn't give any hints about their precise plans.
https://hothardware.com/news/intel-...p-woes-alder-lake-on-track-for-2h-2021-launch
It's interesting anyway, even if it doesn't give any hints about their precise plans.
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(Old) leaks, but further news of Raptor Lake beyond what's already in the thread:
https://www.tweaktown.com/news/8119...k-cpu-24c-32t-up-to-5-5ghz-in-2022/index.html
https://www.tweaktown.com/news/8119...k-cpu-24c-32t-up-to-5-5ghz-in-2022/index.html
Soldato
Suspect we'll have further leaks for Raptor Lake very soon, if I were Intel I'd want to be releasing it at the same time as the Zen 3 refresh, to steal thunder from that launch. Excited to see the reviews
Don't see that happening.
Their "tock" would most likely be mid next year at the earliest.
Mostly die space saved. How that die space is used is anyone's guess.
Remeber that Zen4 will feature iGPU - so this will take up a large % of the die, compared to Zen3 which has no iGPU. Or if they added it as a 'chipset' on the package, it would take the place of a potential CCX etc.
Dave insists on perpetuating the falsehood that the Zen3 refresh won't be out until the end of 2022...
Will be interesting to see how this plays out. Not much Zen3 refresh news coming out currently, aside from clock speed regression rumours. When do you expect it to launch? Q1 2022?
Soldato
Raptor Lake is the tock to Alder Lake's Tick, process node improvement and better PPW.
As for the AMD comment.
Totally forgetting that currently AM4 uses a huge I/O die that is on 12nm, ~125mm² and about 2.1 billion transistors, compare that to a 7nm CCD which is ~75mm², yet has 3.8 billion transistors, shrinking the I/O die to a mature 7nm/6nm process and adding an integrated GPU will be reasonably easy on the AM5 (LGA) package, as much like Intel it will be very slightly larger socket area. The 5700G APU is 10.8 billion at ~180mm² on a single monolithic 7nm die, yet contains almost the same I/O as a standard Zen3 based part, and a full compliment of 8c/16t, but half the L3 cache amount. So I doubt they'll struggle to fit a comparable GPU into the same space plus the I/O using the node shrink to free up the space. The I/O also counts for a huge amount of the power draw with Zen2/3 based parts, so power budget should be better with the smaller node.
As for the AMD comment.
Totally forgetting that currently AM4 uses a huge I/O die that is on 12nm, ~125mm² and about 2.1 billion transistors, compare that to a 7nm CCD which is ~75mm², yet has 3.8 billion transistors, shrinking the I/O die to a mature 7nm/6nm process and adding an integrated GPU will be reasonably easy on the AM5 (LGA) package, as much like Intel it will be very slightly larger socket area. The 5700G APU is 10.8 billion at ~180mm² on a single monolithic 7nm die, yet contains almost the same I/O as a standard Zen3 based part, and a full compliment of 8c/16t, but half the L3 cache amount. So I doubt they'll struggle to fit a comparable GPU into the same space plus the I/O using the node shrink to free up the space. The I/O also counts for a huge amount of the power draw with Zen2/3 based parts, so power budget should be better with the smaller node.