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Raptor Lake Leaks + Intel 4 developments

JediFragger said:
Use your brain man, he obvious is talking in terms of projected increased IPC of the P cores.
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then Raptor lake has

* 50% more cores for MT (8 extra E cores)
* Up to 10% more IPC
* 25% lower voltage (will probably be used to push clocks, eg 5.5ghz single core and 5.2ghz multicore for the 13900k)


estimated Cinebench R23 scores for the 13900k:
2500 points single core & 38000 multicore
 
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Grim5 said:
then Raptor lake has

* 50% more cores for MT (8 extra E cores)
* Up to 10% more IPC
* 25% lower voltage (will probably be used to push clocks, eg 5.5ghz single core and 5.2ghz multicore for the 13900k)


estimated Cinebench R23 scores for the 13900k:
2500 points single core & 38000 multicore
Click to expand...

Up to 10% more IPC is what i heard but i am curious, how can they cram 50% more cores onto the CPU and increase clocks while only reducing power by 25%. The math doesn't seem to align That would surely make 13900K a 300W+ chip under 100% load ?
 
You might be able to get some extra performance with this DLVR feature if used in future CPUs, as the reduced power usage could allow for higher clock speeds, while helping to reduce temps. I think this is the most credible improvement for an Alder Lake 10nm successor, power usage is definitely something with room for improvement on Intel's current 10nm CPUs. It would be good to know if this feature was tested on a 7nm or 10nm CPU though.

The 7% performance gain figure (can't find a source for this :confused:), seems like it would be achievable, based on the 20-25% improvement in power usage (due to a 160mV reduction in CPU voltage, with this amount diminishing beyond 40 amps).

It sounds like an additional voltage regulator is required, and might mean a new motherboard (if it can't be built into the CPU itself).
 
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g67575 said:
You might be able to get some extra performance with this DLVR feature if used in future CPUs, as the reduced power usage could allow for higher clock speeds, while helping to reduce temps. I think this is the most credible improvement for an Alder Lake 10nm successor, power usage is definitely something with room for improvement on Intel's current 10nm CPUs. It would be good to know if this feature was tested on a 7nm or 10nm CPU though.

The 7% performance gain figure (can't find a source for this :confused:), seems like it would be achievable, based on the 20-25% improvement in power usage (due to a 160mV reduction in CPU voltage, with this amount diminishing beyond 40 amps).

It sounds like an additional voltage regulator is required, and might mean a new motherboard (if it can't be built into the CPU itself).
Click to expand...

Of the leaked features of Raptor Lake, the main points that stand out to me thus far are:

1. 8 more 'E' cores
2. Increased IPC
3. Improved cache

DLVR sounds very interesting, though I assume this will only work on Z790 motherboards, and not the Z690 boards that will also be compatible with the new CPU's. Time will tell I guess!
 
I think Meteor Lake in the 1st half of 2023 will be a much better upgrade than the successor of Alder Lake, since it will have a new microarchitecture and a new 7nm EUV process. The thing is, lots of people will be already be upgrading to an Alder Lake system in 2022 when the full series is released along with cheaper motherboards. Not sure many will want to upgrade again in the same year.
 
g67575 said:
I think Meteor Lake in the 1st half of 2023 will be a much better upgrade than the successor of Alder Lake, since it will have a new microarchitecture and a new 7nm EUV process. The thing is, lots of people will be already be upgrading to an Alder Lake system in 2022 when the full series is released along with cheaper motherboards. Not sure many will want to upgrade again in the same year.
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Raptor Lake also has a new microarchitecture mate ;)
 
g67575 said:
I think Meteor Lake in the 1st half of 2023 will be a much better upgrade than the successor of Alder Lake, since it will have a new microarchitecture and a new 7nm EUV process. The thing is, lots of people will be already be upgrading to an Alder Lake system in 2022 when the full series is released along with cheaper motherboards. Not sure many will want to upgrade again in the same year.
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it goes in cycles the majority who upgrade will be people with 3-5 year old systems a lot does depend on how good the last system was



the tiny tiny tiny minority are people who upgrade every 1-2 years
 
cliffy said:
Up to 10% more IPC is what i heard but i am curious, how can they cram 50% more cores onto the CPU and increase clocks while only reducing power by 25%. The math doesn't seem to align That would surely make 13900K a 300W+ chip under 100% load ?
Click to expand...

AMD managed it with RDNA to RDNA2 on the same node so I would not say it is impossible.
 
Intel is preparing wafers of Meteor Lake (mobile) test chips here, at Fab 42:
https://www.cnet.com/a/img/resize/6...intel-arizona-fab-12.jpg?auto=webp&width=1092

More pics:
https://www.cnet.com/pictures/a-look-inside-intels-mammoth-arizona-chipmaking-fab/13/

It looks like Fab 42 is going to be very important for Intel's plans in 2022/2023.

More info here:
https://www.cnet.com/features/intels-chip-recovery-plan-could-restore-us-manufacturing-prowess/

This is what Intel's CEO says about their spending plans "Intel is done with stock buybacks, a financial move in which a company uses its cash to buy stock and thereby increase its price... We're investing in factories"
 
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I saw an interesting rumour here, regarding the LGA1700 socket:
https://overclock3d.net/news/cpu_mainboard/intel_s_new_lga1700_socket_has_been_pictured_-_it_s_big/1

It mentions the possibility that the LGA1700 socket might actually support 1800 pins, rather than 1700. "LGA-17xx/LGA-18XX" is visible on the socket lid, image here:
https://overclock3d.net/gfx/articles/2021/09/15095019280s.jpg

EDIT - So, it could be that all LGA1700 included with Alder Lake motherboards, are really LGA1800 sockets. I've looked at a couple of sockets on Asus and Gigabyte boards and they both have "LGA-18XX' etched on the socket lid. Links here:
https://marketresearchtelecast.com/...ke-S-Core-i9-12900K-comes-in-November-for.jpg
https://cdn.wccftech.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/10/DSC_0551-Custom-2048x1365.jpg

It's confusing. Maybe support for other CPUs could be added in a BIOS update?
 
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Is anyone gonna skip Alder Lake and wait for the 13th generation CPUs? Assuming there will be another CPU generation in 2022 (it's not confirmed). If so, is it because you think CPUs released in late 2022 will be much faster than Alder Lake?

From my point of view, it looks like Intel is focusing their efforts mostly on Meteor Lake, and the following generation, which will both use Intel's 7nm EUV, which Intel claims will eventually have approx. double the transistor density of Intel's latest 10nm tech.

One factor that is a bit of an unknown still, is the yield rates on 10nm (now named 'Intel 7'), which probably aren't that impressive, given the trouble they've had with their 10nm yields, in previous years.

Probably the best case for the 13th gen, would be to port Alder Lake to the initial version of Intel's 7nm fab. technology (with some architecture improvements), perhaps even by the end of 2022. I find it interesting that nothing is confirmed by Intel yet, for new CPUs released in late 2022, so it's not impossible.

Edit - Intel has announced a separate 'neuromorphic' chip titled 'Loihi 2', which is "built with a "pre-production version" of the Intel 4 process node—that's what used to be known as 7nm". Link here:
https://www.pcgamer.com/uk/intels-new-brain-chip-uses-its-first-7nm-silicon/

A slide with more info here:
https://images.anandtech.com/doci/16960/Loihi 2 Lava Launch 2021-Sept-page-009_575px.jpg
 
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