Raptor Lake Leaks + Intel 4 developments

[g67575]

@Journey - Look at the supposedly reliable sources that people have for information on Raptor Lake, and come to your own conclusion. I will wait for an announcement from Intel, maybe they will announce a small improvement on Alder Lake for 2022, but only Intel knows anything about this, no one else.

Intel have clearly announced plans to develop Meteor Lake, ready for a 2023 launch, but nothing for some reason on a possible 10nm successor to Alder Lake.

 

[g67575]

Intel don’t have anything to compete with Zen3 never mind Zen4

I would've thought it was obvious to everyone by now that Alder Lake has beaten Zen 3, especially in single core performance. AMD will claw back some performance with the extra cache models.

Even the lower end models of Alder Lake are looking pretty good vs Zen 3. They need to get on and release the rest of Alder Lake, including lower end and mobile parts, to fully benefit.

I fully expect you to keep arguing with me about this though, tbh.

 

[Journey]

@Journey - Look at the supposedly reliable sources that people have for information on Raptor Lake, and come to your own conclusion. I will wait for an announcement from Intel, maybe they will announce a small improvement on Alder Lake for 2022, but only Intel knows anything about this, no one else.

And as you will know Intel never officially announce the 'Lakes' only the "Coves" and core technology, Raptor Cove + Gracemont is going to be Raptor Lake in 2022, or 13th Generation. Why make a thread speculating about the lack of existence of a product, then go onto say only Intel know, no one else.

 

[jigger]

I would've thought it was obvious to everyone by now that Alder Lake has beaten Zen 3, especially in single core performance. AMD will claw back some performance with the extra cache models.

Even the lower end models of Alder Lake are looking pretty good vs Zen 3.

I fully expect you to keep arguing with me about this though, tbh.

Of corse you do, because you know you’re talking around your hat.

Alder lake is close to some Ryzen3 chips in some aspects, but even if Intel beat Ryzen by some way, a handful of Alder lake chips isn’t going to prop up a company the scale of Intel.

 

[Dave2150]

I would've thought it was obvious to everyone by now that Alder Lake has beaten Zen 3, especially in single core performance. AMD will claw back some performance with the extra cache models.

Even the lower end models of Alder Lake are looking pretty good vs Zen 3. They need to get on and release the rest of Alder Lake, including lower end and mobile parts, to fully benefit.

I fully expect you to keep arguing with me about this though, tbh.

It's not guaranteed that Zen3 refresh will launch before Raptor Lake either, hopefully for AMD it does.

 

[Journey]

Unless Raptor Lake launches before March, then AMD will be more then likely announcing Ryzen -name for 3dcache chips here- at CES 2022, alongside what I'd image to be the first generation of APU's with RDNA2 Graphics, with an aim to having them in the market place before Q1 is over.

 

[g67575]

Hahaha, people keep stating Raptor Lake as if it's a definite thing that is in development / exists.

Imagine if someone in the rumour mill said there's no indication that Raptor Lake is being developed, they'd have little to talk about and that would be that, maybe get a few hundred views on Youtube.

That's why they don't say that, and have to invent sources.

I guess a common opinion on the Internet, is that if enough people say something, it must be true. That is one reason why rumours can spread like wildfire, and become the assumed truth.

 

[Journey]

Hahaha, people keep stating Raptor Lake as if it's a definite thing that is in development / exists.

So what is Intel launching in 2022 then? Can you supply some exact details that prove what is coming in 2022, and the next names with first party source .e.g. Intel?

I guess a common opinion on the Internet, is that if enough people say something, it must be true. That is one reason why rumours can spread like wildfire, and become the assumed truth.

Or maybe you just haven't been around the PC space long enough to know what sources are normally accurate, and which are basically clickbait rubbish.

 

[Dave2150]

Hahaha, people keep stating Raptor Lake as if it's a definite thing that is in development / exists.

Imagine if someone in the rumour mill said there's no indication that Raptor Lake is being developed, they'd have little to talk about and that would be that, maybe get a few hundred views on Youtube.

That's why they don't say that, and have to invent sources.

I guess a common opinion on the Internet, is that if enough people say something, it must be true. That is one reason why rumours can spread like wildfire, and become the assumed truth.

Raptor Lake is on Intel's leaked roadmaps, the same way we discovered Skylake, Kabylake, Coffeelake, etc etc before they released. Perhaps it could be cancelled if there's a huge issue, though I highly doubt it, would be unprecedented.

Also, HWINFO (popular Monitoring application) has added the specific hardware values for Raptor Lake in a recent update, this means there's actual hardware (engineering samples) being tested around the world.

https://videocardz.com/newz/hwinfo-gets-preliminary-intel-13th-gen-core-raptor-lake-support

Raptor Lake is 100% a thing. Whether it still has the 24 cores (8 extra E cores vs Alderlake), increased IPC and improved cache, remains to be seen.

 

[g67575]

Well Fab 42 was announced in 2017, intended for the production of Intel's 7nm chips:
https://www.anandtech.com/show/11112/intel-to-equip-fab-42-for-7-nm

According to Wikichip, Intel's 7nm process for CPUs, called P1276 "will enter risk production at the end of 2022 and ramp in 2023...Intel announced a $7B investment in Arizona's Fab 42 which will eventually produce chips on a 7 nm process". Link here:
https://en.wikichip.org/wiki/7_nm_lithography_process#P1276

On the subject of Zen 4 desktop CPUs, although AMD's roadmap indicates a 2022 release, it's entirely possible that they be announced in late 2022, with products released in early 2023.

In the last decade, AMD hasn't launched 2 CPU generations in a single year, and the Ryzen 6000 series (Zen 3 + additional cache) is coming out in Q1 2022, to compete with Alder Lake.

 

[Robert896r1]

Dude. RPL is coming. Let's have a 100 bet to a charity of your choice. Happy to pay out if I'm wrong.

 

[g67575]

Can you stop posting the same old stuff please lol. Anyone can post unofficial roadmaps which take up half the screen.

 

[jigger]

The name is irrelevant. We get another 4 versions of shareholder lake on outdated nodes and then something interesting.

 

[Journey]

Can you stop posting the same old stuff please lol. Anyone can post unofficial roadmaps which take up half the screen.

Can you answer the question asked? What are Intel going to release in 2022 for desktop if not Raptor Lake since Intel 4 isn't going to be in volume production until 2023?

 

[g67575]

Well, (more or less) nothing in 2022 if Zen 4 isn't released until early 2023. Otherwise, your guess is as good as mine.

 

[jigger]

Can you answer the question asked? What are Intel going to release in 2022 for desktop if not Raptor Lake since Intel 4 isn't going to be in volume production until 2023?

Arizona is a pilot fab. Volume production is 2025-26.

 

[LePhuronn]

People don't seem to be paying much attention to why Intel decided to go with the 8 large core + 4/8 weaker cores design, they wouldn't of done this without a very good reason.

No, we very much paid attention to when the hybrid design was first leaked. Then nobody cared any more.

And yes, there was a very good reason: Intel cannot scale and their process nodes don't allow for tiny cores. This is why Raptor Lake is staying with 8 P cores, Intel can't make them smaller, nor add any more, so they're faffing about with those little Atom cores instead.

But since you say "why didn't Intel improve Alder lake's design", it's because Alder Lake is the first attempt at what they're planning for the future. And it's good enough for now, but Raptor Lake is that "improvement" you claim Intel should've done already.

 

[LePhuronn]

In the last decade, AMD hasn't launched 2 CPU generations in a single year, and the Ryzen 6000 series (Zen 3 + additional cache) is coming out in Q1 2022, to compete with Alder Lake.

Zen 3 v cache is not a new generation, it's a refresh just like 3000 XT was the Zen 2.

 

[LePhuronn]

Well, (more or less) nothing in 2022 if Zen 4 isn't released until early 2023. Otherwise, your guess is as good as mine.

Hang on, so you're saying that Intel aren't going to release anything for 2 years, and hand AMD back performance leadership on desktop for that entire time? Meteor Lake isn't due until H2 2023, and in that time we'll have the top Zen 3 V cache refresh take the multithread crown back from the 12900K, the other Zen 3 refreshes close the gap back up to the smaller Alder Lakes, and then get utterly mullered by Zen 4 for at least 6 months of 2023.

lol OK, put that pipe down my son.

 

[Grim5]

Can you stop posting the same old stuff please lol. Anyone can post unofficial roadmaps which take up half the screen.

prove that it's unofficial