Raspberry Pi - $35 Linux computer

JonJ678 · 7 Jan 2012 at 00:36

The anger at the marketing is pretty nonsensical. Your point is valid, giving this to a child isn't going to directly get them into programming. It would with the right kid, but then, the right kid will find computer science all by himself. The annoyance isn't.

Whatever the vector used, people who don't know the difference between mac and windows have heard of raspberry pi. That's a considerable achievement. The existing dev boards don't exactly sell in their thousands to home users, so best of luck to the raspberry pi guys.

Thank you for mentioning the Mini2440 however. I've tended to avoid arm and ppc because they're inconvenient relative to x86, but it would do me good to branch out a bit. The mini looks like a good choice.

Judgeneo · 7 Jan 2012 at 00:37

BusError said:
No, I actually don't give a toss, really. I started maintaining the mini2440 because it was cheap, disposable and the software that existed was chinese crap. Give me something else better/cheaper and I'll use that instead!

What I find disgusting is not just the Raspberi Pi, it's the general "will SOMEONE please think of the Chiiiiildren ?" bullseye that they just hit square in the middle.

Its only the media attention that makes this thing worthwhile.
I would have loved a dev board like it when I was in school to play with, hell I plan on buying one even now. I'm fairly certain that something such as this would have got me interested in programming far before being introduced to it properly at university.

adwol48 · 7 Jan 2012 at 03:48

dunno if you guys have seen but thye are auctioning off some of the pre production boards, a few are going for in excess of £1000+

masterluke · 7 Jan 2012 at 07:48

adwol48 said:
dunno if you guys have seen but thye are auctioning off some of the pre production boards, a few are going for in excess of £1000+

You would know if you had read the thread

AHarvey · 7 Jan 2012 at 16:48

BusError said:
No, I actually don't give a toss, really. I started maintaining the mini2440 because it was cheap, disposable and the software that existed was chinese crap. Give me something else better/cheaper and I'll use that instead!

What I find disgusting is not just the Raspberi Pi, it's the general "will SOMEONE please think of the Chiiiiildren ?" bullseye that they just hit square in the middle.

If you feel so strongly about the RasPi, then how about a detailed in depth thread of the mini2440?

Personally, I used to program basic on a vic 20 when I was 5 following books but never got it to work. I've tried several times to learn to program (VB, python and currently javascript) but rarely get passed the basics. A lot of the stuff in this thread is new terminology to me.

I for one think anything like this that will help others is a great idea, and if you feel that one is better than the other I would be interested in hearing all about it. A nice little community on here for this kind of thing could go down really well

aceface57 · 7 Jan 2012 at 23:23

I can't wait for this to be released, will be buying a few boards. Of course one will be to make my TV "Smart". I plan on switching to an R PI as a surfing computer given that it uses something like 1 - 2 Watts under full load! In turn this will get me "back" into linux again and of course all the little scripts we all write to make small jobs easier for ourselves.
Third Pi will be getting fitted into my router (older Linksys) and set up as a web server for various projects, with it pulling power straight from the router.
Getting excited about cheap and small computers.

AHarvey · 8 Jan 2012 at 05:08

how are you going to provide power from the router?

BusError · 8 Jan 2012 at 11:00

You should really consider that the Raspeberi is not a very fast processor, it's /hammered/ by an old small Intel Atom for many CPU tasks. Yes, it can decode video and do a bit of 3D, but these are dedicated, separate, hardware accelerators with a very narrow spectrum of usage...

The main CPU is actually very small, it's already a /fraction/ of a cortex A8, and if you think you will do web browsing to a "user" standard with it you're wrong... You might be able to do a bit of light browsing with it, but don't try gmail or any other JS heavy things.

I tried once to use a Beagleboard (that has a much faster ARM on it) with webkit and it was unusable... maybe it's better these days, but expect more of like 2006 smartphone performance: The iPhone 2G had quite a faster CPU than an ARM11@700Mhz...

If you want an idea of the performance of ARM vs the Intel you know, have a look at phoronix's recent bench. Do note that the Pandaboard ES CPU is a /screamer/ in ARM land, it's the latest Cortex-A9 and that is probably easily 4 or 5 times faster than a single core ARM11

quickshot89 · 8 Jan 2012 at 13:44

Bus error I think your missing the point, it's not meant to be the fastest and the greatest, it's to get dev boards into schools for kids to play and experiment on. The bbc micro was the same, and they want to do the same with the rpi.

What other device can run on afew aa batteries and output at 1080p that is less than £30?

sarge78 · 8 Jan 2012 at 16:14

BusError said:
The iPhone 2G had quite a faster CPU than an ARM11@700Mhz...

The iPhone/3G SoC has a 90nm ARM11 core running at 400MHz (with slower memory etc).

Using the latest webkit browser it should offer similar performance to the iPhone 4/iPad running iOS 4 (JavaScript etc). That's more than good enough for me

What 'CPU' did you think the original iPhone was packing?

BusError · 8 Jan 2012 at 19:37

sarge78 said:
The iPhone/3G SoC has a 90nm ARM11 core running at 400MHz (with slower memory etc).

Using the latest webkit browser it should offer similar performance to the iPhone 4/iPad running iOS 4 (JavaScript etc). That's more than good enough for me

What 'CPU' did you think the original iPhone was packing?

No. The iPhone 2G was already running all the graphics on the hardware, it wasn't rendering any pixels apart from a few icons, even the font rendering is done on the graphic IC in iOS. And that's why it was so fast and so in advance at the time, and why Android (and others) are still playing catchup with /that/. Apple's entire backend is based on LLVM to retarget piece of code to run on the graphic processor.

Raster rendering webkit graphics on an ARM11 will be crap. It was crap on the original Android devices, and that was on a tiny phone screen. Try that on 1080p hdmi.

New World Order · 8 Jan 2012 at 20:41

Cant wait to get my hands on one, Was using a old dell computer to watch stuff on my tv but this will be a low power solution

AHarvey · 11 Jan 2012 at 23:52

Seems that manufacturing started a couple of days ago for model B's with the first batch rolling of the production lines end of Jan.

However, seems like they are made in the middle east and in my experience, that can lead to some pretty crappy deliver times of 4 weeks+ so we'll see!

Evilpaul · 12 Jan 2012 at 02:06

AHarvey said:
Seems that manufacturing started a couple of days ago for model B's with the first batch rolling of the production lines end of Jan.

However, seems like they are made in the middle east and in my experience, that can lead to some pretty crappy deliver times of 4 weeks+ so we'll see!

The middle what now? The Raspberry Pi website says they are using manufacturers in China and Taiwan, and last I looked they were definitely in the far east!

Their website post explains the reasons why they could not use UK based manufacturers (cost and delivery times due to the relatively low initial volume), and I can see why they have been forced in this direction. The customer gets the product quicker (3-4 weeks compared to the quoted 12-14 weeks from UK based manufacturers) and the charity gets a larger slice of the price as capitol to put towards the next batch. It really is a no-brainer.
http://www.raspberrypi.org/archives/509

quickshot89 · 12 Jan 2012 at 09:38

Its a shame they wont be built in the UK now, but its the only way for them to keep the current price tag. Still, im hoping i can get one on launch

Beepcake · 12 Jan 2012 at 10:50

At least they're talking to the government about it rather than just whining

AHarvey · 12 Jan 2012 at 20:39

Evilpaul said:
The middle what now? The Raspberry Pi website says they are using manufacturers in China and Taiwan, and last I looked they were definitely in the far east!

the whole "one up-manship" on this forum is pretty pathetic. I was just posting the info I had in a text message, I hadn't actually read the Pi website until just. :rolleyes:

Their website post explains the reasons why they could not use UK based manufacturers (cost and delivery times due to the relatively low initial volume), and I can see why they have been forced in this direction. The customer gets the product quicker (3-4 weeks compared to the quoted 12-14 weeks from UK based manufacturers) and the charity gets a larger slice of the price as capitol to put towards the next batch. It really is a no-brainer.
http://www.raspberrypi.org/archives/509

While they may be able to build the units quicker in china etc, delivery times can really vary. I've dealt with far east production in a couple of roles and depending on the amount and method of shipments can really effect the times.

While I fully understand the reasoning behind going through this method and agree that it's a real shame that they can't build them here, it as you say, is a no brainer.

Fingers crossed the delivery times are ok!

inSilica · 12 Jan 2012 at 22:47

quickshot89 said:
Its a shame they wont be built in the UK now, but its the only way for them to keep the current price tag. Still, im hoping i can get one on launch

And we have the nerve to envy the Germans! Clearly our system is broken, where it would be cheaper to manufacture and import rather then import components, manufacture here and create Jobs.

Personally I'm outraged! It's mind bogling

SoundsGood · 12 Jan 2012 at 23:13

Couldn't wait.. ended up buying an Arduinio to tide me over.

EvilFranky · 13 Jan 2012 at 10:15

BusError said:
No. The iPhone 2G was already running all the graphics on the hardware, it wasn't rendering any pixels apart from a few icons, even the font rendering is done on the graphic IC in iOS. And that's why it was so fast and so in advance at the time, and why Android (and others) are still playing catchup with /that/. Apple's entire backend is based on LLVM to retarget piece of code to run on the graphic processor.

Raster rendering webkit graphics on an ARM11 will be crap. It was crap on the original Android devices, and that was on a tiny phone screen. Try that on 1080p hdmi.

Surely given time developers will make use of the SoC of the Raspberry Pi, and provide hardware accelerated graphics functions...