RDNA 3 rumours Q3/4 2022

[KompuKare]

It's like what those dodgy salesman do when they have two TVs and try and sell you the £100 HDMI cable by fiddling with the TV settings or video quality.

Don't give Nvidia any ideas!

Next we'll have gold-plated (sorry that should be 24K gold-plated on oxygen-free copper) cables with "the way it's meant to be played"logos being sold for £100s and making it to the best seller lists on the rainforest.

They might even bring back SLI so they can sell diamond crusted SLI bridges.

 

[nvidiamd]

Not true. Plenty of amd sponsored games are pushing RT too, just having to hold back the quality because they can't handle it as well as nvidia do. Intel will also be pushing sponsored games to use RT and even without sponsorships, we'll see RT being pushed, it's just the nature of new tech and the next step for developers.

Agree though, nvidia will be upping the effects as obviously like any business they will want to sell the advantage of their hardware, same way amd will now want to sell the advantage of their 20+GB vram and dp 2.1 "8k" displays but those kind of titles won't be too often i.e. cp 2077 overdrive mode, portal rtx (similar to quake rtx implementation). Of course, this is where DLSS 3/FG will also be sold.

Who says only Nvidia sponsored games have RT. Spiderman Remastered? The entire Resident evil remastered series? Far Cry 6? Elden Ring (will get an RT Patch soon) Forza Horizon 5?. Its not pushing the limits of RT hardware but any time you turn it on, the Nvidia hardware will barely be impacted while the AMD hardware will regress to 3000 series of performance.

Pushing RT meaning inserting a crapload of it so that it will have a huge performance impact. We have games like Metro EE where we could see a decent amount of RT that runs pretty well on Ampere and it will run pretty well on AMD new cards.
It is not the same thing when we talk about AMD asking devs to put shadows or dumb reflections in a game so that they can check the i can do RT on their cards vs Nvidia paying devs to increase RT settings to make their old cards obsolete and trying to sell that as an "overdrive mod".
The reality is we won't see RT pushed outside of those sponsored titles because it doesn't make sense economically. Call it the PS5/Xbox curse but that is it. Probably by the time we will see RT pushed by developers in games we will be in Nvidia 6000 series/ Radeon whatever series if they survive
As much as you are dreaming about RT games being easier to make, right now and for the next 3-4 years adding RT is extra work for each developer. And it doesn't make any sense for any RT only game being released unless Nvidia sells 10 millions of 4090s or 5090s or whatever.
The only RT only game released so far is in fact a relaunch of a game that anyone can play without RT, it is no different than any other release. The developers of Metro EE put on extra work to release the "rt only" version. It didn't make their job easier, it made it harder. And the fact that we talk about Quake RTX or Portal RTX or whatever, that is insulting anyone's intelligence. They can look nice as tech demos but no reasonable person will play Quake or Portal in 2022.

 

[Drollic]

It's a crap game, it's just a performance benchmark. I hope they don't screw up the new Witcher game like this

I agree, I tried playing it without the hardware to run it properly and uninstalled. This was around 1.2. Now I have the hardware and on current patch I again uninstalled. It doesn't matter how good puddle reflections can look when the actual game is so dull.

 

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

Wouldn't say that tbh, I played first time on my vega 56 so no RT and even then the lighting, shadows, reflections all looked fantastic and far better than other games, still does today too.

Some of the rasterised effects are very poorly done - one of them is the water.

 

[kieran_read]

RTX 4080 should be priced much below 1k. You didn’t need AMD coming out with its products to understand just how bad the card is. Just about 200 more gets you a card which is entirely in another league when it comes to performance. IMO, it existed solely to upsell the 4090. I am interested in seeing how nvidia responds at the 80 tier in the current situation.

The 4090 Ti would be released near the end of Ada life cycle like the 3090 Ti. True the 4090 wouldn’t be the best at that point but then you have already reached the launch if next gen.

Prices have only doubled for the 80 tier. 90 tier increase wasn’t anywhere near that. We went from £1,499 to £1,799. AMD cards are not priced near nvidia because the gap in RT has gotten even worse since last time and even in raster they aren’t tying the 4090 like how the 6900XT was with the 3090. You also don’t get DLSS support.

I think Nvidia will lower the price of the 4080 to £999 and launch the 4080 Ti at £1,300 which will address the 7900XTX and 7900XT. That will set the stack right.

If Nvidia lowers the 4080 to £1000 and the 7900XTX ends up being around £1200 in the UK it would depend on performance but I could end up leaning towards the 4080 at that point, but I guess I will find out in 3-4 weeks time. TBH i'm actually lookin forward to seeing the 4080 performance numbers as i've not really seen much of them as it's all been about the 4090.

In regards to my perspective that's all any of this is, it's how people apply value to something, for me the value of the 7900xtx is undeniable. If you have a 3000 series card then perhaps you would be slightly disapointed if you can already run the games you probably wont need to upgrade so from that perspective. But many people run older GPUs many of us have 1000 series, 2000 series, and less many have AMD GPUS, for those groups when you look at Nvidia VS AMD the AMD 7900XTX is a no brainer with Nvidia pricing the 4080 as it has, (unless you have wet dreams for RT performance) which TBF the people that would be upgrading to the 7900XTX would likely be getting better RT performance as they most likely wouldn't have a 3000 series in the first place (or at least a lower model suich as a 3060 or something) So the performance would increase accross the board.

From what I am seeing in peoples signatures, is they already have high end 3000 series GPUS so sure the AMD cards may not be as big of a jump as what people want. But Not everyone upgrades year on year, and in fact i would argue the vast majority of people probably skip generations (especially over the last couple of years with prices being as they are) and for those AMD is so well positioned with the 7900XTX that it would be foolish to go team green at the current prices.

Even if the 7900XTX comes out at the same price as the 3090ti is currently selling for it would be stupid to buy a 3090ti as the RT performance would be roughly the same but the rast performance would be significantly better than the 3090ti. It's a no brainer.

The only threat to AMD at least in the UK is how much our online stores scalp the price. (I don't think Nvidia would backtrack that quickly as it would be a U-Turn for them)

 

[nvidiamd]

If Nvidia lowers the 4080 to £1000 and the 7900XTX ends up being around £1200 in the UK it would depend on performance but I could end up leaning towards the 4080 at that point, but I guess I will find out in 3-4 weeks time. TBH i'm actually lookin forward to seeing the 4080 performance numbers as i've not really seen much of them as it's all been about the 4090.

Even then AMD deserves their praise because it will be their pricing (and lack of performance ) that will make the 4080 somewhat interesting.

 

[Shaz12]

Pushing RT meaning inserting a crapload of it so that it will have a huge performance impact. We have games like Metro EE where we could see a decent amount of RT that runs pretty well on Ampere and it will run pretty well on AMD new cards.
It is not the same thing when we talk about AMD asking devs to put shadows or dumb reflections in a game so that they can check the i can do RT on their cards vs Nvidia paying devs to increase RT settings to make their old cards obsolete and trying to sell that as an "overdrive mod".
The reality is we won't see RT pushed outside of those sponsored titles because it doesn't make sense economically. Call it the PS5/Xbox curse but that is it. Probably by the time we will see RT pushed by developers in games we will be in Nvidia 6000 series/ Radeon whatever series if they survive
As much as you are dreaming about RT games being easier to make, right now and for the next 3-4 years adding RT is extra work for each developer. And it doesn't make any sense for any RT only game being released unless Nvidia sells 10 millions of 4090s or 5090s or whatever.
The only RT only game released so far is in fact a relaunch of a game that anyone can play without RT, it is no different than any other release. The developers of Metro EE put on extra work to release the "rt only" version. It didn't make their job easier, it made it harder. And the fact that we talk about Quake RTX or Portal RTX or whatever, that is insulting anyone's intelligence. They can look nice as tech demos but no reasonable person will play Quake or Portal in 2022.

Those games are pushing the boundaries of graphics and to me they are a reason to buy new hardware. You are trying to paint them in a negative light but really it gives you a glimpse into how the future of gaming looks.

Also Nvidia is not making their older cards obsolete. RT Overdrive is an additional setting layered on top of the existing ones to utilize the 4090's headroom. As it stands right now, the 4090 is just walking through the game so may as well use that headroom to improve image quality further. The 3080 Ti used to run RT ultra settings at 60 FPS and will continue to do so.

You don't need to heavily build RT into the game to see how much of an advantage nvidia has here. If you understand how RT works, the maximum impact on FPS happens when you turn on any single RT Effect (be it shadows, GI or reflections) as that is when the BVH structure is built from scratch. The other effects when turned on are additive and use that same structure so don't impact FPS as much. This can be seen in Cyberpunk where RT Reflections are actually LESS demanding than SSR turned to Psycho, provided you have turned on 2 RT effects. Regardless, even if you turn on that single effect, the 4090 will barely be impacted while the AMD card will see a much higher drop.

Also people criticise RT Shadows but they do make a huge impact on visuals. RT Shadows are very soft and don't change based on how you move since they don't use shadow maps/ Its very jarring to go from RT Shadows to raster shadows as you can then notice how the shadow maps are cascading based on how you move.

RT is being pushed on the consoles as well, maybe not to the extent of Cyberpunk but its the future and I want to be able to use the feature with as less of a performance drop as possible.

 

[uscool]

My 3080 Ti already gives me 60 FPS with RT and DLSS Performance.

The raster performance jump isn't that important to me because I don't notice any perceptible differences past 80-90 FPS and my 3080 Ti already gives me that with DLSS Quality. If I start getting higher FPS over 100 or so, I use DSR to clean up the image as that way atleast I can use the headroom to meaningfully improve image quality. But I would prefer to use the headroom for RT first and then DSR, in order of visual impact. There is also the fact that even the most powerful CPUs on the market start bottlenecking the 4090 in raster if you turn on DLSS.

I agree the card is very expensive but its my hobby and I love shiny new hardware.

fair enough but just wondering with the continuing trend of price increasing each gen, what would make you have doubts paying £2K, £2.5k or maybe £3k ?

 

[chroniclard]

It's like people have suddenly got all RT crazy and it's now a must havr

 

[arknor]

Metro is a poop boring game even with RT I lasted about 5 minutes.
Cyberpunk looks amazing though.
Control I got to the bit where you got a gun and then got bored.

Some implementations of RT are just pointless, and you could basically get the same effect another way and probably for less of a performance hit.

Cyberpunk is probably the first game that does it properly, will be interesting to see how amazing the reflections are in forza motorsport when it comes out

buuut you need to put in extra £700 for it ? or just use FSR to get 60 fps with RT ? and have close raster to 4090 for £700 less ?

no one evedn knows if its close to the raster of a 4090 and we won't until we get real benchmarks instead of this "upto" crap amd released

If it were really so close AMD probably would have showed it on the charts by adding a 4090 on there

 

[kieran_read]

Even then AMD deserves their praise because it will be their pricing (and lack of performance ) that will make the 4080 somewhat interesting.

I am not going to complain if good competition drives prices down accross the board.

I think people are universal in agreement that Nvidia **** the bed with prices.

 

[uscool]

Metro is a poop boring game even with RT I lasted about 5 minutes.
Cyberpunk looks amazing though.
Control I got to the bit where you got a gun and then got bored.

no one evedn knows if its close to the raster of a 4090 and we won't until we get real benchmarks instead of this "upto" crap amd released

I went with LTT claims they did tests at the test benches at the event , anyway think it will comfortably beat the 4080 16gb maybe lose at RT but well ahead at raster we shall see

 

[nvidiamd]

So I don’t get your quote here. 4K DLSS performance RT Ultra 60 fps Cyberpunk was playable. But tech advancement now means I get the same experience at higher frame rates with DLSS Quality. But now the 4090 isn’t powerful enough to use DLDSR and RT Psycho settings in Cyberpunk. The 5090 will probably do that which will make the 4090 experience seem bad at that time. This is tech advancement.

Those games are pushing the boundaries of graphics and to me they are a reason to buy new hardware. You are trying to paint them in a negative light but really it gives you a glimpse into how the future of gaming looks.

Also Nvidia is not making their older cards obsolete. RT Overdrive is an additional setting layered on top of the existing ones to utilize the 4090's headroom. As it stands right now, the 4090 is just walking through the game so may as well use that headroom to improve image quality further. The 3080 Ti used to run RT ultra settings at 60 FPS and will continue to do so.

Dissociative identity disorder?

 

[uscool]

It's like people have suddenly got all RT crazy and it's now a must havr

pretty confident since the event RT is the most used words in this forum

 

[SpudMaster]

People are saying it's great that AMD have increased performance without increasing price from 6900 to 7900 unlike Nvidia roughly doubling the cost of 4080 vs 3080. But then AMD turnaround and say the 7900 is a competitor to the 4080 and not the 4090. So have they actually increased prices as their previous gen xx80 series competitor was the 6800xt which had an rrp of about £650 I think, not £999 that we see for this gens xx80 competitor. Kinda looks like they pulled an Nvidia to me.

Either that or 7900xtx was intended to be a 4090 series competitor until they saw the reveal and realised they couldn't compete with RT so since then restructured their pricing.

 

[nvidiamd]

People are saying it's great that AMD have increased performance without increasing price from 6900 to 7900 unlike Nvidia roughly doubling the cost of 4080 vs 3080. But then AMD turnaround and say the 7900 is a competitor to the 4080 and not the 4090. So have they actually increased prices as their previous gen xx80 series competitor was the 6800xt which had an rrp of about £650 I think, not £999 that we see for this gens xx80 competitor. Kinda looks like they pulled an Nvidia to me.

Either that or 7900xtx was intended to be a 4090 series competitor until they saw the reveal and realised they couldn't compete with RT so since then restructured their pricing.

You are right it should be called 7800

 

[Nexus18]

its a single player game ? 3rd play through ??? isnt it the same though ?? personally myself I play once and thats me done for single player games its like when I hear people watching same movie again I dont get it

SP game

Lots of different ways to play (guns blazing, stealth, melee focussed), different narrative/choices, different love interests (and more if you pick male or female), some really good story bits, especially the side quests.

Oh and also because it looks awesome maxed out in HDR 21.9

Spoiler

Pushing RT meaning inserting a crapload of it so that it will have a huge performance impact. We have games like Metro EE where we could see a decent amount of RT that runs pretty well on Ampere and it will run pretty well on AMD new cards.
It is not the same thing when we talk about AMD asking devs to put shadows or dumb reflections in a game so that they can check the i can do RT on their cards vs Nvidia paying devs to increase RT settings to make their old cards obsolete and trying to sell that as an "overdrive mod".
The reality is we won't see RT pushed outside of those sponsored titles because it doesn't make sense economically. Call it the PS5/Xbox curse but that is it. Probably by the time we will see RT pushed by developers in games we will be in Nvidia 6000 series/ Radeon whatever series if they survive
As much as you are dreaming about RT games being easier to make, right now and for the next 3-4 years adding RT is extra work for each developer. And it doesn't make any sense for any RT only game being released unless Nvidia sells 10 millions of 4090s or 5090s or whatever.
The only RT only game released so far is in fact a relaunch of a game that anyone can play without RT, it is no different than any other release. The developers of Metro EE put on extra work to release the "rt only" version. It didn't make their job easier, it made it harder. And the fact that we talk about Quake RTX or Portal RTX or whatever, that is insulting anyone's intelligence. They can look nice as tech demos but no reasonable person will play Quake or Portal in 2022.

See your points would be valid if non sponsored games didn't add RT and sony + microsoft weren't adding rt to all their games too Remember sony have filed patents to improve their RT as well. Whilst we want to see more RT (or some of us anyway....), developers will want it more because it makes their jobs easier and quicker, yes they are having to do more work when supporting both raster and RT but as we have seen with likes of DL 2, it is just the way this is going to go with the evolution into RT only visuals i.e. raster will be phased out and if you want better/fancier lighting, shadows, reflections etc. then use the RT settings i.e. you want better visuals, buy a better gpu as has always been the case, this is no different but then developers will get **** because "zOMG, you intentionally made raster look bad because nvidia paid you to gimp raster in order to make RT look better!"

Avatar is due next year and it is RT only. These so called "tech demos" are needed because it shows other development studios what is possible and gets them interested, same with my work in development, I attend conferences where you hear/see people talking through new tools and so on that they have adopted into their products and what the benefits are etc. then it gets other companies/product teams wanting to do the same, this is just how technology/products work, if everyone was happy to stick with old methods because it just works or is what they are familiar with then we wouldn't be progressing at all, someone has to take the leap to progress.

PS. I'll be replaying portal, haven't played in years so looking forward to it with RT goodness

EDIT:

Also, again, we must stop making out like Rt is all about nvidia, it's not, amd especially with RDNA 3 are able to run RT only titles perfectly well too.....

Some of the rasterised effects are very poorly done - one of them is the water.

Outside large water areas, agree but puddles etc. look great, no worse than other games non raster water with exceptions of titles like rdr 2 but even that has some areas where you can see awful raster issues i.e. swamp area. Then look at bf 1 water in JF video (a game which I thought looked great for water at the time...):

 

[Shaz12]

Dissociative identity disorder?

2 different things. There ware several ways to use that headroom. You cannot expect me to list all of them.

 

[uscool]

People are saying it's great that AMD have increased performance without increasing price from 6900 to 7900 unlike Nvidia roughly doubling the cost of 4080 vs 3080. But then AMD turnaround and say the 7900 is a competitor to the 4080 and not the 4090. So have they actually increased prices as their previous gen xx80 series competitor was the 6800xt which had an rrp of about £650 I think, not £999 that we see for this gens xx80 competitor. Kinda looks like they pulled an Nvidia to me.

Either that or 7900xtx was intended to be a 4090 series competitor until they saw the reveal and realised they couldn't compete with RT so since then restructured their pricing.

you are right could say lesser of the 2 evils LOL

 

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

Outside large water areas, agree but puddles etc. look great, no worse than other games non raster water with exceptions of titles like rdr 2 but even that has some areas where you can see awful raster issues i.e. swamp area. Then look at bf 1 water in JF video (a game which I thought looked great for water at the time...):

They gimped the large bodies of water,because they wanted to emphasis the effect when you use RT. But without RT it massively breaks immersion compared to lots of non-RT games,because the coastline is large in the game.