Road Cycling

we have deicded at home today that its time to get rid of wattbike...did not get much use since lockdowns...helped then but got almost any use since...
if anyone is after one ;) gimme a hola LOL

back to wax and chains...so clean even in crap weather is a joke...worst case, give it a bath in boiling water and back as new

mine are in silca, and am using their chain wax lube to top them up

Not that I’ve got space for one, but what’s the going rate on these? Have been enjoying Wattbike in the gym. Would have one over a peloton I reckon.
 
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Not that I’ve got space for one, but what’s the going rate on these? Have been enjoying Wattbike in the gym. Would have one over a peloton I reckon.
prices vary from £1100 to 1600.
would be ahppy in the middle price to be honest, but must be one of least used wattbikes ever in existance LOL

great pieces of kit.

EDIT.
in the gym you might have the Pro - that you power up when pedalling...minus side is the manual adjustemnts you need to make if you do intervals etc
 
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prices vary from £1100 to 1600.
would be ahppy in the middle price to be honest, but must be one of least used wattbikes ever in existance LOL

great pieces of kit.

EDIT.
in the gym you might have the Pro - that you power up when pedalling...minus side is the manual adjustemnts you need to make if you do intervals etc

I think they have the "Nucleus" which is a manual adjustment. This is mildly annoying, but no worse than being on a spin bike. It's got the bonus of a power meter so I can gauge whether the level of effort is appropriate. I'm guessing modern turbos or the Wattbike that you have does this automatically?
 
I waxed my chains for a while but have gone over to Silca Super Secret lube, it’s nearly as clean running and less faff.
Linky? although not sure why I ask that as being Silca it'll likely be 3 digits and made of mythical unicorn sweat! Ever used Squirt? How does it compare?

For someone as traditional as me (old and stuck in my ways) still using Finish Line Green and about given up on any dry lubes as almost pointless in the UK :cry:

so I've done some measuring etc, and it seems like I've got short torso or average and long arms, I'm only 5'9 so average as.

but my inseam is 31/2" so I've gone on canyon bikes, argon etc to do some "calculations" and most seem to recommend me a small frame size guess due to inseam, a longer stem for longer reach is easy/cheap enough to swap.

there are some good deals on decent spec argons on sigma right now.. hmmm! maybe an extra kicker to get out and ride more.

weather was good this weekend! beach would've been nice but I was on-call all week.
Inseam of 31/2" sounds very short for that height...?! @Drollic will be able to say. But don't be so sure... I'm 5'7 (172cm) and been riding 54cm frames with around that inseam. Did start on a shorter 80mm stem, then moved up to 100mm once I had the flexibility. Thought I could maybe be on a 52cm frame for my new and went for a bike fit to confirm... Nope, according to fitter I'm nearly in the middle for a 54. But shorter cranks & narrower bars the big changes for me fit wise. I've not got long arms, nor legs, so must be a long torso?! On a 54 he said I have the flexibility to stretch out further and narrower if I wanted to compete, a 52 I would be very restricted.

I was looking at this : https://www.argon18.com/en/bikes/road/gallium-cs-disc/sram-rival-etap-axs

in silver, looks quite good for the money/spec
Does seem a good price for the spec. Although not sure what they've done to make the headtube look so bad to get that integration?! Doesn't look like you can drop the bars more than 5mm?!

Got my tub delivered Saturday, I reckon I go through a tub of chamois cream every month, and now Wiggle don't stock their elite stuff it becomes very expensive. used it yesterday seemed to work absolutely fine, hot day and no undercarriage discomfort today from excess sweating! Will report back after further use!
Craving grass or Lactating yet? :D

Some of my local club getting more involved with CX. We had a local cycle track open in September last year and they're doing more and more coaching (several of my club involved/BC accredited - with kids and general public) but also building a CX track alongside it... So they're now doing CX training - but only for our club until its finished. I'm tempted...
 
Inseam of 31/2" sounds very short for that height...?! @Drollic will be able to say. But don't be so sure... I'm 5'7 (172cm) and been riding 54cm frames with around that inseam. Did start on a shorter 80mm stem, then moved up to 100mm once I had the flexibility. Thought I could maybe be on a 52cm frame for my new and went for a bike fit to confirm... Nope, according to fitter I'm nearly in the middle for a 54. But shorter cranks & narrower bars the big changes for me fit wise. I've not got long arms, nor legs, so must be a long torso?! On a 54 he said I have the flexibility to stretch out further and narrower if I wanted to compete, a 52 I would be very restricted.


Does seem a good price for the spec. Although not sure what they've done to make the headtube look so bad to get that integration?! Doesn't look like you can drop the bars more than 5mm?!

I think the inseam measurement is very average for my height so other than long arms I'm pretty much all around average as.. ha!

https://www.sigmasports.com/item/Argon-18/Gallium-CS-Disc-Rival-AXS-Road-Bike/12VCV £2k at sigma which I feel like is a great deal, carbon frame, egrouppo etc. Swap the tyres for some 28c and it would be a good bike.
 
@grudas

CM/MM for accuracy for everything. If remotely accurate, the cranks will very likely be too long for you on that bike for your given size at what will probably be 170mm. That's roughly 84-85cm start height inseam to be reasonably safe and any kind of hip restriction/tightness or worse would possibly need shorter. No correct saddle height with cranks too long - expect fallout/issues which could present in lots of different ways. You may be ok initially, you may not. It can be a matter of time and volume/intensity. If you are highly 'mobile' you can probably take a little off that figure, however I'd still suggest the same measurement regardless due to such minimal drawbacks. It's an absolute joke that the industry doesn't start normalising cranks in the 150mm-180mm range instead of what is a 10mm gap between 165mm and 175mm for people with wildly different leg lengths and heights.

The good thing with that bike is that it has Rival fitted. You can drop large amounts of weight by upgrading the crankset (to one that fits you) and then if you want to go further, the cassette, rear mech and even the rotors whilst keeping the shifters and calipers. People who race sometimes do red crankset with the dual sided p/m with red rear mech, cassette and chain then 3rd party rotors/red again and sell the unused kit.
 
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@grudas

CM/MM for accuracy for everything. If remotely accurate, the cranks will very likely be too long for you on that bike for your given size at what will probably be 170mm. That's roughly 84-85cm start height inseam to be reasonably safe and any kind of hip restriction/tightness or worse would possibly need shorter. No correct saddle height with cranks too long - expect fallout/issues which could present in lots of different ways. You may be ok initially, you may not. It can be a matter of time and volume/intensity. If you are highly 'mobile' you can probably take a little off that figure, however I'd still suggest the same measurement regardless due to such minimal drawbacks. It's an absolute joke that the industry doesn't start normalising cranks in the 150mm-180mm range instead of what is a 10mm gap between 165mm and 175mm for people with wildly different leg lengths and heights.

The good thing with that bike is that it has Rival fitted. You can drop large amounts of weight by upgrading the crankset (to one that fits you) and then if you want to go further, the cassette, rear mech and even the rotors whilst keeping the shifters and calipers. People who race sometimes do red crankset with the dual sided p/m with red rear mech, cassette and chain then 3rd party rotors/red again and sell the unused kit.
Thanks!

So I’ve checked a few bikes I used to have before and done 20k+ miles on, I’ve had a vitus zenium vr in 56cm with an 80mm stem that I rode for many thousands of miles daily


Cm wise my inseam is 80cm so that argon18 in size S - 53cm seems to be the go-to.

argon18 geo wise looks smaller than the vitus so with the 90mm stem it comes with, I hope I’d be alright and I could increase my reach with a longer stem if required.

Crankset being 170mm I sorta hope it’ll ok..

The measurements are from the 53c / small frame size that argon list.

Chatgpt seems to agree with what I’m seeing so I’m sorta thinking if I was comfy on vitus with 80mm(oem was 100mm) stem I should be ok on argon18

To compare the geometry of the Vitus Zenium VR 56cm and the Argon 18 Gallium CS Disc 53cm, we can look at key measurements such as stack, reach, top tube length, head tube length, and seat tube length. These measurements will give us an understanding of how the bikes differ in fit and riding position.

### **1. Stack**
- **Vitus Zenium VR 56cm**: ~570mm
- **Argon 18 Gallium CS Disc 53cm**: ~550mm

**Stack** represents the vertical height from the bottom bracket to the top of the head tube. The Vitus has a higher stack, indicating a more upright riding position.

### **2. Reach**
- **Vitus Zenium VR 56cm**: ~387mm
- **Argon 18 Gallium CS Disc 53cm**: ~377mm

**Reach** measures the horizontal distance from the bottom bracket to the top of the head tube. The Vitus has a longer reach, suggesting a slightly more stretched-out riding position compared to the Argon 18.

### **3. Top Tube Length**
- **Vitus Zenium VR 56cm**: ~560mm
- **Argon 18 Gallium CS Disc 53cm**: ~545mm

The **Effective Top Tube Length** indicates the length of the top tube if it were horizontal. The Vitus has a longer top tube, which could also contribute to a more stretched riding position.

### **4. Head Tube Length**
- **Vitus Zenium VR 56cm**: ~170mm
- **Argon 18 Gallium CS Disc 53cm**: ~139mm

A longer **Head Tube** (like on the Vitus) typically results in a more upright position, which is usually more comfortable over long distances.

### **5. Seat Tube Length**
- **Vitus Zenium VR 56cm**: ~560mm
- **Argon 18 Gallium CS Disc 53cm**: ~520mm

**Seat Tube Length** affects the height of the saddle and how much of the seat post is exposed. The Vitus has a slightly longer seat tube, reflecting its slightly larger frame.

### **Summary**
- The **Vitus Zenium VR 56cm** generally provides a more upright and slightly more stretched riding position, which may be more comfortable for endurance or relaxed rides.
- The **Argon 18 Gallium CS Disc 53cm** is designed for a more aggressive, race-oriented position with a lower stack and shorter reach.

This comparison highlights that the Vitus Zenium is likely better suited for comfort and endurance, while the Argon 18 Gallium CS may be preferred by those looking for a more aggressive, aerodynamic position.

There’s also the fact that the bike would only be used for fun/getting back into riding. Previously I commuted only..
 
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@grudas

56cm is too big for 5ft 9. 80mm on that size frame just isn't nice handling wise. 90mm even is borderline. Just too fast and twitchy. It's one of those things where you would need to test a 54 with a slightly longer stem to feel the difference. Your legs are about average for height, a fraction over perhaps. In the cycling world, perhaps slightly under though. You'll possibly get away with slightly racier geometry and some spacers as a result. It looks like the bike shown requires +25mm with the integrated setup minimum. You'll turn the pedals fine at 170mm/80cm. You won't know any different. They just won't be 'right' for you and neither will the saddle be in the very small ideal fit window as a result - I believe this to be only a few mm wide. The less the volume and intensity, the more you'll get away with it. In an ideal world, from pedal turn 1, they'd be shorter. 165mm at 80cm should be safe.

The bike you are looking at isn't even labelled properly by Sigma. Never trust 3rd party sites for geo. It's a 51.9 TT and Argon 18 themselves label it an XS. The bike labelled XS by Sigma is in fact the XXS. Your size would be the Small at 53.9 TT which Sigma labels a Medium. If that doesn't work for you, different bike.

https://www.argon18.com/en/bikes/road/gallium-cs-disc/sram-rival-etap-axs

I also wouldn't trust chat gpt - the stack figure above is wrong for a start at 550mm. No size has 550mm. On the 53.9, it's 538mm and 561mm with the system. Those measurements aren't from the small size on chat gpt. They're from the XS. The reach is 384mm, again 377mm is from the XS (51.9TT). If you start looking at the tables yourself, you'll see what is race like and what is more relaxed for your size around 54.

Chatgpt also has no idea on the bar reach. These can vary typically between 70mm-80mm. Some bikes have a slightly short reach even though they may be 'race' bikes as they now purposely do so to fit a long reach integrated bar setup that makes up for the difference for example. If you aren't then aware, that's a whole new integrated bar setup and perhaps the handling you never wanted.

The bar on the Argon 18 is short at 70mm - https://shop.fullspeedahead.com/en/handlebars/road/vero-compact-alloy-handlebar

Nothing listed for Vitus compact bars.

Edit - Noticed you've seen the disparity between sites, but chatgpt measurements are still wrong.
 
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@grudas

56cm is too big for 5ft 9. 80mm on that size frame just isn't nice handling wise. 90mm even is borderline. Just too fast and twitchy. It's one of those things where you would need to test a 54 with a slightly longer stem to feel the difference. Your legs are about average for height, a fraction over perhaps. In the cycling world, perhaps slightly under though. You'll possibly get away with slightly racier geometry and some spacers as a result. It looks like the bike shown requires +25mm with the integrated setup minimum. You'll turn the pedals fine at 170mm/80cm. You won't know any different. They just won't be 'right' for you and neither will the saddle be in the very small ideal fit window as a result - I believe this to be only a few mm wide. The less the volume and intensity, the more you'll get away with it. In an ideal world, from pedal turn 1, they'd be shorter. 165mm at 80cm should be safe.

The bike you are looking at isn't even labelled properly by Sigma. Never trust 3rd party sites for geo. It's a 51.9 TT and Argon 18 themselves label it an XS. The bike labelled XS by Sigma is in fact the XXS. Your size would be the Small at 53.9 TT which Sigma labels a Medium. If that doesn't work for you, different bike.

https://www.argon18.com/en/bikes/road/gallium-cs-disc/sram-rival-etap-axs

I also wouldn't trust chat gpt - the stack figure above is wrong for a start at 550mm. No size has 550mm. On the 53.9, it's 538mm and 561mm with the system. Those measurements aren't from the small size on chat gpt. They're from the XS. The reach is 384mm, again 377mm is from the XS (51.9TT). If you start looking at the tables yourself, you'll see what is race like and what is more relaxed for your size around 54.

Chatgpt also has no idea on the bar reach. These can vary typically between 70mm-80mm. Some bikes have a slightly short reach even though they may be 'race' bikes as they now purposely do so to fit a long reach integrated bar setup that makes up for the difference for example. If you aren't then aware, that's a whole new integrated bar setup and perhaps the handling you never wanted.

The bar on the Argon 18 is short at 70mm - https://shop.fullspeedahead.com/en/handlebars/road/vero-compact-alloy-handlebar

Nothing listed for Vitus compact bars.

Edit - Noticed you've seen the disparity between sites, but chatgpt measurements are still wrong.

perfect! thanks for the info, very useful.

yeah I haven't even looked at sigmas sizing charts, got the 53/S size from argon18 website, 54cm should be good to start with, ideally I'd get a bike fit but there's nothing that I can find local other than very basic "saddle height" fits.

I was just going to cross check the GPT values against the info on argon/vitus site to see if it pulled in the right stuff. Wonder if it's indexed an older gallium frame set that I'm sure they had in 2015ish.

need to digg around see if there's a recommended bike fitting place in/around West Sussex.
 
I think the inseam measurement is very average for my height so other than long arms I'm pretty much all around average as.. ha!

https://www.sigmasports.com/item/Argon-18/Gallium-CS-Disc-Rival-AXS-Road-Bike/12VCV £2k at sigma which I feel like is a great deal, carbon frame, egrouppo etc. Swap the tyres for some 28c and it would be a good bike.
Haha, yeah average cyclist too! At least now...! Although that does mean lots of options in the second hand market... As you'd know a bit more than Joe Public what you're buying so wouldn't get caught out.

Seems a good bike for the money, even better there at that price. I still can't get my head around how tall that headset looks with the integration. Yes I know they all have it, but the majority at least build it more into the lines of the front so it doesn't look so 'stuck out'. Some integrated bars+stem would obviously transform it's looks - easy to do in future.

Thanks!

So I’ve checked a few bikes I used to have before and done 20k+ miles on, I’ve had a vitus zenium vr in 56cm with an 80mm stem that I rode for many thousands of miles daily


Cm wise my inseam is 80cm so that argon18 in size S - 53cm seems to be the go-to.

argon18 geo wise looks smaller than the vitus so with the 90mm stem it comes with, I hope I’d be alright and I could increase my reach with a longer stem if required.

A '56' in a frame is usually Large. Does sound a bit big for your height, but then dropping down to a 52/Small is a big difference. Even between different manufacturers allowing for their 'differences' that would be a big difference. Will admit I don't know much about Vitus or Argon18, but wouldn't think they're that different to sizing of others...

For some reason that Argon18 doesn't display on bikeinsights but there's other Geo calcs online, or something you can plug the number in to compare.


Whereas me comparing it between my Diverge and Tarmac gives you the image (example of how it is meant to work - also shows the difference between 2 frames from the same manufacturer in the same size), but also more info - https://bikeinsights.com/compare?geometries=5fa5ad268b2b9d00174aae5a,608740a65e818400218b08fe,

need to digg around see if there's a recommended bike fitting place in/around West Sussex.
This place in Lewes I've heard mentioned before - 'TrainSharp' https://www.facebook.com/trainsharp - but possibly too far East for you? Would expect lots of options around Brighton... But @SoliD might know of more his side which might be easier/better for you to get to?
 
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Lucky timing today. It's been feeling quite close and humid all morning, and i saw the temp was only 28c so headed for an early lunch around 11:45. Got back onto my road and it started spitting. Got in the front door and the heavens have opened and i can hear constant thunder!
 
This place in Lewes I've heard mentioned before - 'TrainSharp' https://www.facebook.com/trainsharp - but possibly too far East for you? Would expect lots of options around Brighton... But @SoliD might know of more his side which might be easier/better for you to get to?
Know of trainsharp from when I had my coach and their facility was impreesive, don't know any others over that way though i'm afraid! Vankru are my place but this is Meon Valley, so depending wherey ou are in West sussex might be a trek. Where specifically are you @grudas as I'm on the border in East Hants.
 
I've noticed some vibration from my pedals at higher power and cadences. Do we think my bearings on the bottom bracket may be starting to fail? I posted previously this year about them not spinning as freely as I've seen on videos when there was no chain attached.
 
Haha, yeah average cyclist too! At least now...! Although that does mean lots of options in the second hand market... As you'd know a bit more than Joe Public what you're buying so wouldn't get caught out.

Seems a good bike for the money, even better there at that price. I still can't get my head around how tall that headset looks with the integration. Yes I know they all have it, but the majority at least build it more into the lines of the front so it doesn't look so 'stuck out'. Some integrated bars+stem would obviously transform it's looks - easy to do in future.



A '56' in a frame is usually Large. Does sound a bit big for your height, but then dropping down to a 52/Small is a big difference. Even between different manufacturers allowing for their 'differences' that would be a big difference. Will admit I don't know much about Vitus or Argon18, but wouldn't think they're that different to sizing of others...

For some reason that Argon18 doesn't display on bikeinsights but there's other Geo calcs online, or something you can plug the number in to compare.


Whereas me comparing it between my Diverge and Tarmac gives you the image (example of how it is meant to work - also shows the difference between 2 frames from the same manufacturer in the same size), but also more info - https://bikeinsights.com/compare?geometries=5fa5ad268b2b9d00174aae5a,608740a65e818400218b08fe,


This place in Lewes I've heard mentioned before - 'TrainSharp' https://www.facebook.com/trainsharp - but possibly too far East for you? Would expect lots of options around Brighton... But @SoliD might know of more his side which might be easier/better for you to get to?

that's a useful site, shame it has no info on the argon18. I do think the 56 was too big for me, if I remember right I dropped the steam to 80mm which probably helped correct it a bit. I think a 54ish cm is the sweet spot going by a few calculators/advise etc and then get a bike fit.

re the spacer, it is a funny looking thing but it looks like it's just a single "big" spacer ring over a few smaller ones, hard to adjust in that sense as you can't just take a single ring out.

trainsharp looks decent, not too far from.. an hour away so do-able.

Know of trainsharp from when I had my coach and their facility was impreesive, don't know any others over that way though i'm afraid! Vankru are my place but this is Meon Valley, so depending wherey ou are in West sussex might be a trek. Where specifically are you @grudas as I'm on the border in East Hants.


I'm in Horsham, a couple places popped up on google so I could try that I guess, a "basic" fit is around £100 it seems, a 3d one is £150-£250.

presume 3d is what you really want for proper calculations..
 
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I'd debate that and go for a well recommended fitter over someone who uses Retul or similar and doesn't come well recommended! From what I've heard Trainsharp are well reviewed. Will ask around for you.
 
Know of trainsharp from when I had my coach and their facility was impreesive, don't know any others over that way though i'm afraid! Vankru are my place but this is Meon Valley, so depending wherey ou are in West sussex might be a trek. Where specifically are you @grudas as I'm on the border in East Hants.
A guy I TTT with on Zwift is from Horsham, although he only really rides MTB outdoors said he used Vankru for a fit. He'd had them recommended and considered it worth travelling to Southampton for.

I've noticed some vibration from my pedals at higher power and cadences. Do we think my bearings on the bottom bracket may be starting to fail? I posted previously this year about them not spinning as freely as I've seen on videos when there was no chain attached.
Yup. Although it could be pedal bearings, but you'd only tend to feel it through one of them (very unlikely that both would go together), it is more likely BB bearings. The 'crank spin with no chain' is a pretty pointless thing to judge bearing wear with (although you see it a lot)... Really if it's feeling rough when you're spinning it should be the only 'spinny' test. If it is, bearings are out of grease, or need replacing. If it spins nice and freely for ages, unless you've spent lots of money on low drag bearings and are sacrificing bearing life for speed by not using grease, then your bearings/races are worn out.

LOL: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uD7Lzv5fWhs

Fairly easy to take cranks off (make sure you have tools to refit!) then can clean the bearing covers/surfaces of crud, then move the inner races with your fingers. You should be able to tell 'roughness' by feel and again more likely 1 side is 'bad' and the other feels smooth. It's usually the non-driveside as tends to get more water ingress (more exposed as doesn't have chainrings and crank spider over it). You can change a singe bearing, but general consensus is to change both sides together... Unless you've got something they're not replaceable (like the Shimano PF jobbie)

I'm in Horsham, a couple places popped up on google so I could try that I guess, a "basic" fit is around £100 it seems, a 3d one is £150-£250.

presume 3d is what you really want for proper calculations..
If you're spending £100 on a fit and travelling for it, then probably worth the '3d' one for 150 where they'll actually do more than just look at you on the bike. Best thing is to speak to them and say what you need - say what you had and what you're looking at - exactly as you've done here. But really you want them to guide your new bike purchase, not fit you on your old one...
 
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Got to say, unsure of the cause but i'm starting to get fed up feeling like i have no energy at the moment. Today i felt i was in a much lower gear for what was a fairly basic 4% incline that i ride on a regular basis. Just had little energy.

It can't be over exertion as i've been quite slack on exercise recently, both in terms of overall volume and intensity. With the last 3 weeks being around the 3-4hrs/week level whereas i'm usually closer to 8hrs.

It's been going on for a while which i'm assuming is heat based, but it's getting annoying. Doesn't seem to make a difference whether i get out early morning or in the evenings, it's like my body is just sapped constantly throughout the day. Hoping next year i'm either more acclimatised or just being in an air conditioned office/bedroom makes the big difference.
 
@Martynt74 You might just have a bug. I go through phases of this. The thing is, usually my times aren't actually any worse than usual and sometimes better. Its a very odd thing. Getting better but feeling worse. Heat certainly doesn't help though.

Are you burning the candle at both ends at all at the moment. Work stress, sleeping poorly?
 
@Martynt74 You might just have a bug. I go through phases of this. The thing is, usually my times aren't actually any worse than usual and sometimes better. Its a very odd thing. Getting better but feeling worse. Heat certainly doesn't help though.

Are you burning the candle at both ends at all at the moment. Work stress, sleeping poorly?

Yeah, it's possible but it's pretty rare i ever get ill generally and it's been dragging on for quite a while and coincided with the temps constantly being >30c inside the house, especially my office as mentioned. Sleep hasn't been great, but again i can't think of any reasons for that other than heat. I go to bed at a fairly constant time each day and feel like i sleep ok, albeit with waking up a lot more than usual during the night, but then no matter how i sleep i just wake up feeling groggy and unrefreshed.

Interestingly my Garmin reports my baseline HRV has progressively been getting higher. I don't really know enough about the metric and unsure if it says much in isolation, but my typical baseline was always around 60-70 and has been since i got this watch ~18mths ago, but it's now steadily climbing upwards into the 90's. Reading this suggests it's potentially being in recovery after a harder section of training, which might go in line with the reduced volume recently.
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Work wise i've been pretty rubbish truth be told, i've generally been finishing bang on time and not putting in any extra to get things done and things whilst not slipping are going to start at some point. Productivity is definitely down, but again i think it's temperature. It's currently 34C in here and not conductive to working! Hoping September starts a drop
 
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