Road Cycling

4 hours late Ross! Only an early bird catches Vectors... With me spotting (over the past 2-3 weeks) second hand pairs of Powertap P1's going for around the same price on the bay, some of them new, it had already encouraged me into thinking I'll be going the P1 route. Probably should've just got the Vectors but quite an expenditure this side of Xmas when the other half has already said no... I'll win her over in the spring, after sorting my tax return & refixing the mortgage in April...! ;)
jpaul said:
as the antagonist suggested this will give the cyclists who later filter down the gutter an undue sense of security sitting in any remaining lorries blindspot.
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Part of the main problem I see is all of the blame being placed on lorry drivers for running over cyclists in London. As an outsider who's always cycled on the main roads and inner city with lorries, tractors and other vehicles around me I get the overwhelming concern that cyclists not bring portrayed as being at fault in most of these instances due to their own stupidity and lack of common sense. Couple that with a lack of road awareness, lack of experience around HGV's and even a lack of knowledge of the Highway Code and you've got a recipe for disaster.

I'll agree there needs to be awareness and at the very least guidance for those without that awareness, but changing road/junction law or campaigning to seems a total overkill and just even more reason for more unwarranted hatred towards cyclists from motorists. :rolleyes:
xdcx said:
You missed out MASSIVELY there Roady!
Should have snapped those up.
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Meh. Maybe in the spring!
lordrobs said:
I think before we can help you Roady we really need a youtube video of yourself making all of these noises ;)

I've got Avid hydraulic discs on my MTB and Tektro cable discs on my road bike and both make noise but the front on the MTB is on another level! HEEEEEEYYYYYOOOOOONNNK :p Neither are run in properly yet (less than 150 miles on each :o ) but the Tektro's are settling in while the Avids are getting louder!
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Maybe its a hydra thing then, your 'HEEEEEEYYYYYOOOOOONNNK' sounds familiar! Maybe we need a disc-off on who's got the loudest!?

May well record a video... Or just give you some of the footage from the last couple of days commuting?! Even with the poor sound/mic on my VIRB I'd be surprised if you couldn't hear them... :rolleyes:
 
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Roady said:
Part of the main problem I see is all of the blame being placed on lorry drivers for running over cyclists in London. As an outsider who's always cycled on the main roads and inner city with lorries, tractors and other vehicles around me I get the overwhelming concern that cyclists not bring portrayed as being at fault in most of these instances due to their own stupidity and lack of common sense. Couple that with a lack of road awareness, lack of experience around HGV's and even a lack of knowledge of the Highway Code and you've got a recipe for disaster.
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I disagree with you there. Cyclists like pedestrians are extremely vulnerable. In event one does make a mistake it should not mean that it costs them their lives. It’s a whole different ball game to those in massive metal death machines. Okay it will be extremely difficult to stop all deaths but we do need to look at changing the law so cyclists are provided more protection.

Yes it may cause outrage and take a generation to filter through but more people should cycle and it needs to be encouraged.
 
Liefrich said:
I disagree with you there. Cyclists like pedestrians are extremely vulnerable. In event one does make a mistake it should not mean that it costs them their lives. It’s a whole different ball game to those in massive metal death machines. Okay it will be extremely difficult to stop all deaths but we do need to look at changing the law so cyclists are provided more protection.

Yes it may cause outrage and take a generation to filter through but more people should cycle and it needs to be encouraged.
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Oh I'm not saying we're some of the most vulnerable road users, but for the law on junctions to be changed for all road users, due to cyclists not using their common sense when filtering up the inside of moving traffic and getting squashed seems like complete overkill to me. We have a bigger problem where the majority of drivers are already on the road driving aggressively with a huge feeling of self importance and bending whatever laws they even consider may apply to them (and ignoring those they don't like), without any enforcement. I don't think a new 'law' will make any difference (thinking quite the opposite).

I'm not saying we don't need change but all changing that law does is place the blame further on those HGV drivers. I'm not saying they are not to blame in a majority of cases, but with huge blind spots in the areas where cyclists are encouraged to filter, you're putting even more at danger by telling them they have even more 'right' to be there. I'd encourage every cyclist to sit in an HGV and experience how little you can see alongside the lorry, calling it a 'blind spot' is totally misleading, it's a HUGE AREA, not a small 'spot'! :eek:

I personally see a huge problem with left lane filtering which is not being addressed - whatever you do, those in the left hand lane are always going to be the most in danger if 'allowed' or 'encouraged' to be there. You'll never find me on the left hand side of a lorry/vehicle with poor visibility where there's a chance of it turning left (unless the driver has put me there). Even the law changing will not change my assessment of the risk (being too high).
Vonhelmet said:
12 degrees this morning wtf. Was sweltering in my softshell.
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Toasty here too! Windy this morning but blue skies and the wind has died down.

I was expecting rain but we only had some drizzle yesterday afternoon. Typical the rain is now forecast for saturday morning... With a couple of extra days booked off work, guess which was the only time I'm 'allowed' to be out on the bike. Typical. :rolleyes:
 
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Roady said:
Oh I'm not saying we're some of the most vulnerable road users, but for the law on junctions to be changed for all road users, due to cyclists not using their common sense when filtering up the inside of moving traffic and getting squashed seems like complete overkill to me.
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Agreed. Yes cyclists are venerable, that is why they (we) need to take every precaution ourselves to make sure we don't get flattened. Providing further fuel to the concept of "them and us" by rewriting the highway code is going in the polar opposite direction to what should be happening. "Metal death machines"... please :p they are called cars, trucks, buses and they make up the majority of our traffic. Get used to the idea because it isn't changing any time soon.

As for stating what happens in other countries- I do a fair bit of work in Oman and much of the immigrant population get around by bike. Driving standards over there aren't great, very little aggression on the roads but a "safe" gap to pull into is one where the other driver has to slam their brakes on but stops short of driving through you. How do their cyclists stay safe on busy roads? They cycle right in the gutter... the wrong way down the road. This works for them and while I've seen many incidents involving motorists I've never seen one that involves a cyclist. Works for them but I wouldn't site it as an idea to roll out in the UK :p
 
lordrobs said:
Agreed. Yes cyclists are venerable, that is why they (we) need to take every precaution ourselves to make sure we don't get flattened. Providing further fuel to the concept of "them and us" by rewriting the highway code is going in the polar opposite direction to what should be happening. "Metal death machines"... please :p they are called cars, trucks, buses and they make up the majority of our traffic. Get used to the idea because it isn't changing any time soon.

As for stating what happens in other countries- I do a fair bit of work in Oman and much of the immigrant population get around by bike. Driving standards over there aren't great, very little aggression on the roads but a "safe" gap to pull into is one where the other driver has to slam their brakes on but stops short of driving through you. How do their cyclists stay safe on busy roads? They cycle right in the gutter... the wrong way down the road. This works for them and while I've seen many incidents involving motorists I've never seen one that involves a cyclist. Works for them but I wouldn't site it as an idea to roll out in the UK :p
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Rubbish :o.

If you drive into someone with your car or a truck, the chances are they aren't getting up in a healthy state..or at all.

Statistics on personal injury accidents on public roads in Great Britain in the year ending June 2016.

Reported road casualties, compared with the year ending June 2015, shows a:

2% increase in road deaths to 1,800
3% increase in killed or seriously injured to 24,620
2% decrease in casualties of all severities to 185,010

So yes death machines if not driven responsibly. We change our laws continuously to prevent the so called threat of terrorism (which kills hardly any UK citizens) yet we balk at the idea of looking into updating our road laws.

No matter how idiotic you are on a bicycle it's pretty difficult to kill someone.
 
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Lethal` said:
I've found that the camera actually moves within the mount! Electric tape over it and sound quality is 50x better!
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Yeah, I put little foamy/furry pad things between mine and it's mount, not pretty but stopped any movement (and any worry of it 'popping' out!). Although mine still picks up loads of road 'rumble' (from the frame I'm guessing) with any 'outside' noise being very muffled due to wind noise and no 'muffle' on the mic. I remember removing the little rubber stopper thing from the mic which made it 10x louder/better, but it's still pretty pants. Unfortunately the sound quality from GoPro's is so good it makes the VIRB sound dire in comparison. :rolleyes:
Liefrich said:
We change our laws continuously to prevent the so called threat of terrorism (which kills hardly any UK citizens) yet we balk at the idea of looking into updating our road laws.
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Unfortunately that's just the way things seem to operate in the UK, Joe public is more concerned with anything reported in the news as 'danger' over the real world killers - like the roads & obesity/heart disease.

Most of us are more than aware of how poor UK road law and infrastructure is compared to other countries, that's a huge reason why I think more 'law' isn't the way to go.

A much simpler way would be to make road law much more simple, educate people and ENFORCE it. Time and again drivers are proven to be in the wrong, but nothing is done about it! :confused:
lordrobs said:
"Metal death machines"... please :p they are called cars, trucks, buses and they make up the majority of our traffic. Get used to the idea because it isn't changing any time soon.
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Keep it civil in here guys, we're all in the same boat and I realise it's a very sensitive subject. I nearly backhanded an overtaking wing-mirror less than 30 minutes ago from a car I've seen multiple times on my lunchtime commute. Never before has he overtaken so closely, so I hope it was just a lapse in judgement.

'Metal death machines' unfortunately is far too accurate a description... :eek:

Statistics is a poor way of showing how dangerous our roads are, but it would be good to see within the same timescales the increase in vehicles with the increase in average mileage. That would balance nicely against the number of 'road deaths', but also if you could include the increase in deaths related to heart disease & obesity (maybe in the under 60's?).

The roads are one of the most dangerous places to be, yet more and more people are doing hundreds of miles per week, working longer hours (not to mention sleeping less) and seem totally desensitised to anything that happens on our roads. When was the last time you saw a 'current' road death reported on national news? There's just too many. Even local papers don't include them all, further desensitising the general population.

I bet statistically, driving is one of the most dangerous things we do in life - some of us are subjected to it for multiple hours every single day.
 
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Good post Roady! A sad state of affairs but I sense that slowly the cycle brigade will succeed in eventually providing reasonable infrastructure. The car will not always be king and deep down the government knows that congestion is huge hindrance to our economy and health!

I will be in Hereford over the Xmas period so if you are around and free for a ride let me know. I quite fancy looping around Kington.
 
Liefrich said:
Good post Roady! A sad state of affairs but I sense that slowly the cycle brigade will succeed in eventually providing reasonable infrastructure. The car will not always be king and deep down the government knows that congestion is huge hindrance to our economy and health!

I will be in Hereford over the Xmas period so if you are around and free for a ride let me know. I quite fancy looping around Kington.
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Have to agree, but therein lies part of the 'problem' - it takes media coverage and a 'us and them' mentality to actually get anything looked at/pushed through/considered. A huge part of the issue already is the existing 'us and them' mentality. I don't think other cycling countries experience that quite the same (judging by what I've read of cycling in Oz and on the continent). Then again us brits have always ferociously guarded our own 'interests' and god help anyone tell us otherwise! Just imagine if 50% of brits cycled and how much better the whole experience would be for everyone, it would sort so many health and congestion problems.

Biggest issue - those with the power seem to have no idea! Like some of the piecemeal cycling infrastructure around Herefordshire - much of it is along stretches of road which invariably need money spending on maintenance more so than segregated cycle paths! :rolleyes:

I'll be around over the Xmas break, but totally weather dependant! Not sure how many saturday morning group rides I'll get out on, but give me a holla (email) whenever you know which days you'll be around to ride and I'll check with my 'Cycling Allowance & Time Administration Department' ;):cool:
 
Roady said:
I'll be around over the Xmas break, but totally weather dependant! Not sure how many saturday morning group rides I'll get out on, but give me a holla (email) whenever you know which days you'll be around to ride and I'll check with my 'Cycling Allowance & Time Administration Department' ;):cool:
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You signed up to Rapha Festive 500 no? :p
 
EDIT - What I've written will be taken the wrong way so I thought best to delete it...

Christmas riding - anyone got any plans? I'd basically written it off but two guys from work said that we should get together for a decent (I guess 30 to 40 miles) ride between Christmas and New Year if the weather isn't shocking.
 
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Didn't see what you wrote & quite quiet in here this morning...

My plans totally depend on the weather, if it's like today (14 degrees here, feels really mild, fingers crossed for tomorrow) I can see me getting out at every available opportunity! :D

My other half works quite a bit over the holiday period but my place closes down from the 22nd till the 4th, so I hope there's at least a couple of days there with 'ok' weather! ;):)

Going to tick over 4000 miles this week, target for the year was 3500. May even get close to 4500 if the weather behaves and I decide to do some extra miles for the Rapha Festive 500 with some of the club guys... Wonder if setting target for 2017 to 5000 miles is achievable or just a bit too high. Was going to set it at 4500! Ho-hum.
 
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I still have your post open on another browser and I fully agree with much of what you said. I don't think anyone would take it the wrong way, it seems quite a balanced view.
 
The us/them attitude seems to be proliferated/grown by the media (they like a fight) and the British cycling organisation itself, who as the mouthpiece of the cyclist (who elected them the lottery fund?) seem to be willing participants. The representative of the motorists seem to be much more ad-hoc and can perhaps be excused for not presenting a consistant more collaborative viewpoint, but not British Cycling.

Moreover, as both a cyclist and motorist how many examples do you see of bad cycling and bad driving every day, cyclists win for me, unfortunately.
with cycling hat on, and inevitably more sensitized to cycling behaviour (details matter here, mistakes = significant injuries) - just yesterday the cyclists moving unpredictably w/o signalling (mirror signal manouver), or badly lit, maybe half a dozen, and a I would say fewer than that of bad driving examples. (Should be more headcam posts of other cyclists)

did note that for the Dutch and as already mentioned education would help in the UK

Training

The Dutch train their children to ride so they can confidently ride in the roads when they are around 12 years of age, just before they start secondary school.[15] Only if they pass their traffic exam are they awarded their Verkeersdiploma (traffic certificate).[15] This training is deemed necessary as 75% of secondary school students cycle to school, rising to 84% riding for those living within 5 km of school.[16] Even for distances of 16 km (9.9 mi) or over, some 8% of secondary school children cycle in each direction to school, though this is mainly in rural areas where the closest secondary schools can be a fair distance away.[16] (Some 49% of primary school children ride to school, but distances are shorter and adults often accompany the younger ones.[17])
Dutch motorists are also trained for interaction with cyclists as part of their driver training when going for their driving licence. For example, trainee motorists are trained to check and re-check their right-hand side for cyclists before making a turn to the right.
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