Road Cycling

RoboCod said:
I still have your post open on another browser and I fully agree with much of what you said. I don't think anyone would take it the wrong way, it seems quite a balanced view.
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Reading it back I thought it sounded a bit inflammatory which wasn't my intention so I thought it best to relegate it to the deleted posts bin.
jpaul said:
The us/them attitude seems to be proliferated/grown by the media (they like a fight) and the British cycling organisation itself, who as the mouthpiece of the cyclist (who elected them the lottery fund?) seem to be willing participants. The representative of the motorists seem to be much more ad-hoc and can perhaps be excused for not presenting a consistant more collaborative viewpoint, but not British Cycling.

Moreover, as both a cyclist and motorist how many examples do you see of bad cycling and bad driving every day, cyclists win for me, unfortunately.
with cycling hat on, and inevitably more sensitized to cycling behaviour (details matter here, mistakes = significant injuries) - just yesterday the cyclists moving unpredictably w/o signalling (mirror signal manouver), or badly lit, maybe half a dozen, and a I would say fewer than that of bad driving examples. (Should be more headcam posts of other cyclists)

did note that for the Dutch and as already mentioned education would help in the UK
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The Dutch do seem to have got it right when it comes to attitudes around cycling from both sides. I mean even down to the tone of how things are put across;

Dutch - Dutch motorists are also trained for interaction with cyclists as part of their driver training when going for their driving licence. For example, trainee motorists are trained to check and re-check their right-hand side for cyclists before making a turn to the right.

UK - We want to make it law under the highway code to give cyclists right of way over motorists turning left.

No one is going to have an issue with the former, the latter is abrasive and divisive.

Over 75% of kids riding to school, that is awesome. In the UK though within half a mile of a school just before or after the school day is probably one of the worst places to ride because of the school run crew who don't give two hoots about anyone around them as long as they can drop off their kid as close as possible and with the minimum impact to their day.

I think as a culture shift we are a looong way from getting close to their way of doing things. Maybe it simply wouldn't work for the brits.
 
Last weekends training was in -5 freezing fog.
This weekends training will be 14 degree's warmer but with 40mph gusts of wind. Proper Belgian.
 
pothole + bottomed out my tyre + massive bang = flat 10 seconds later.

sometimes I hate london roads with stupid construction all over creating crazy potholes all over the main roads.
 
lordrobs said:
No one is going to have an issue with the former, the latter is abrasive and divisive.
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Totally agree, but dare I say - the drivers/general populace in the UK is far more ignorant of any 'advice'. The majority even find it hard to follow 'law'! :rolleyes:

The way the Dutch handle things is fantastic, but much of their 'culture' around cycling (it's acceptance) has enabled them to do that. The biggest problem I foresee in the UK is our 'culture' of road use seemingly totally in conflict with any progression towards safety & the roads being 'fair' for other modes of transport other than the motor vehicle. Anything outside of that 'car is king' mantra seems to immediately get shot/shouted down, no matter the source or reasoning. Brits love to argue, we're damn good at it! But we also are damn good at only seeing our own point of view and being utterly ignorant to any others! I feel that changing that culture/perception is the crux of the whole problem. Change that and anything is possible! :)
jpaul said:
The us/them attitude seems to be proliferated/grown by the media (they like a fight) and the British cycling organisation itself, who as the mouthpiece of the cyclist (who elected them the lottery fund?) seem to be willing participants. The representative of the motorists seem to be much more ad-hoc and can perhaps be excused for not presenting a consistant more collaborative viewpoint, but not British Cycling.
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Have to agree, nearly anything I see/hear from BC in the national press around road use/law results in a face : palm.
grudas said:
pothole + bottomed out my tyre + massive bang = flat 10 seconds later.
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Too much BEEFCAKE! :p
xdcx said:
Last weekends training was in -5 freezing fog.
This weekends training will be 14 degree's warmer but with 40mph gusts of wind. Proper Belgian.
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We're even getting rain here, spoilt for Flandrian conditions the last couple of weeks! So lucky! :D
 
Roady said:
Totally agree, but dare I say - the drivers/general populace in the UK is far more ignorant of any 'advice'. The majority even find it hard to follow 'law'! :rolleyes:

The way the Dutch handle things is fantastic, but much of their 'culture' around cycling (it's acceptance) has enabled them to do that. The biggest problem I foresee in the UK is our 'culture' of road use seemingly totally in conflict with any progression towards safety & the roads being 'fair' for other modes of transport other than the motor vehicle. Anything outside of that 'car is king' mantra seems to immediately get shot/shouted down, no matter the source or reasoning. Brits love to argue, we're damn good at it! But we also are damn good at only seeing our own point of view and being utterly ignorant to any others! I feel that changing that culture/perception is the crux of the whole problem. Change that and anything is possible! :)
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It would be nice to see a shift, I guess the fact that the average distance driven has actually dropped as has the number of people taking the driving test is a sign of changing times for whatever reason.

Interestingly I was talking to a dutch guy while working in Kenya about his Brompton. He has a cycle > train > cycle commute when working at home and the main reason he does it is that it is easier and quicker than using the car. I think very few people in the UK could claim that anything that involves cycling and/or public transport is the easy option in the UK :p
 
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lordrobs said:
the main reason he does it is that it is easier and quicker than using the car. I think very few people in the UK could claim that anything that involves cycling and/or public transport is the easy option in the UK :p
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Tell me about it! My sister lives and works in north Birmingham, 3 miles from home. She broke her wrist ice skating a week ago (semi-luls) and as she can't drive she's had to take the bus. Buses are timetabled to run every 20 minutes, twice last week she waited 30+ minutes for buses before walking home along 75% of the bus route. One occasion she was able to catch a bus around a mile away from home, the second time she didn't even see one! How long does it take to walk 3 miles? Quite a long time with a broken wrist! Useless! :rolleyes:
 
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Roady said:
Yeah, I put little foamy/furry pad things between mine and it's mount, not pretty but stopped any movement (and any worry of it 'popping' out!). Although mine still picks up loads of road 'rumble' (from the frame I'm guessing) with any 'outside' noise being very muffled due to wind noise and no 'muffle' on the mic. I remember removing the little rubber stopper thing from the mic which made it 10x louder/better, but it's still pretty pants. Unfortunately the sound quality from GoPro's is so good it makes the VIRB sound dire in comparison. :rolleyes:
Unfortunately that's just the way things seem to operate in the UK, Joe public is more concerned with anything reported in the news as 'danger' over the real world killers - like the roads & obesity/heart disease.

Most of us are more than aware of how poor UK road law and infrastructure is compared to other countries, that's a huge reason why I think more 'law' isn't the way to go.

A much simpler way would be to make road law much more simple, educate people and ENFORCE it. Time and again drivers are proven to be in the wrong, but nothing is done about it! :confused:

Keep it civil in here guys, we're all in the same boat and I realise it's a very sensitive subject. I nearly backhanded an overtaking wing-mirror less than 30 minutes ago from a car I've seen multiple times on my lunchtime commute. Never before has he overtaken so closely, so I hope it was just a lapse in judgement.

'Metal death machines' unfortunately is far too accurate a description... :eek:

Statistics is a poor way of showing how dangerous our roads are, but it would be good to see within the same timescales the increase in vehicles with the increase in average mileage. That would balance nicely against the number of 'road deaths', but also if you could include the increase in deaths related to heart disease & obesity (maybe in the under 60's?).

The roads are one of the most dangerous places to be, yet more and more people are doing hundreds of miles per week, working longer hours (not to mention sleeping less) and seem totally desensitised to anything that happens on our roads. When was the last time you saw a 'current' road death reported on national news? There's just too many. Even local papers don't include them all, further desensitising the general population.

I bet statistically, driving is one of the most dangerous things we do in life - some of us are subjected to it for multiple hours every single day.
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And cyclist lives are at risks.

The thing is if you favour the law too much on cyclist. Some cyclists will take advantage of car users by false claims etc.

I drive and ride a bike so I see it from both sides.

How many here also drive?

There is just as much stupid car drivers as there are cyclists
 
I'd be surprised if less than 75% of us also drive. I was a driver before a cyclist.

I used to see a higher number of stupid cyclists, but equally that was through an inner city commute where a high percentage were pavement hoppers & RLJ's and very slow/stationary traffic.

Now I'm not commuting inner city I see a higher number of stupid drivers as the cyclists I encounter are higher mileage, 'real' commuters rather than the town based ignorant ones. The traffic is hardly ever stationary and only a small percentage is within a 30mph limit. Close/punishment passes are almost a daily event now, before they were a weekly.

EDIT: Have a good weekend all!
 
I used to give cyclists 'enough' room but always thought other drivers moving completely over in to the other lane was excessive.

Of course now that I ride myself I do the same whenever possible and appreciate it when other drivers do too. Less risk all round (potholes, wind, driver/cyclist error etc).
 
BennyC said:
I used to give cyclists 'enough' room but always thought other drivers moving completely over in to the other lane was excessive.

Of course now that I ride myself I do the same whenever possible and appreciate it when other drivers do too. Less risk all round (potholes, wind, driver/cyclist error etc).
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I still get annoyed when people wait behind me for ages when the road is plenty wide enough to overtake, it makes me nervous that they cannot judge a gap sufficiently and could completely **** up the overtake.
 
jonneymendoza said:
I drive and ride a bike so I see it from both sides.

How many here also drive?

There is just as much stupid car drivers as there are cyclists
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For me this is the big issue - the narrative has been polarised to assume that no cyclist could possibly have a driving licence. I certainly think I am a far better driver now I also ride as it is so easy to become a relaxed and tunnel vision driver. It's just natural - you feel invulnerable in a car and visibility is pretty much just what you see through your front windscreen.
 
With the bikes from planet x/on one, "self build" does it mean groupset and frameset are totally seperate? So you need to fit bottom bracket, chainset, headset, cut down fork? Is everything included ie headset, spacers etc?
 
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