Road Cycling

[Jonny ///M]

Just for a change I fitted a new chain... and missed one of the jockey wheel chain guides. Normally I do it on a Shimano chain so I end up with a quick link in straight away, this time it is on a KMC with the re-usable missing link but I don't have the pliers to remove it

Good old Amazon prime should get the bike moving again by tomorrow evening

Undo the bottom jockey wheel bolt and rotate the rear of the cage until you can fit the chain in the right way. Refit jockey wheel and all is well.

Either that or slip joint pliers and push the links together.

 

[Roady]

Good base ride out on saturday morning with the Climb on social ride. Very leisurely pace so was semi-regretting missing the faster ELY ride (left half hour earlier) but I probably hadn't got time to get to town for 9 anyway. Looking back afterwards none of the 'usual suspects' uploaded a ride so don't think it even happened!

https://www.strava.com/activities/846757400

Lots of new faces and non-local guys but it was a pleasure in the (at times) sun with the lack of wind and warmer weather. Glad I went out even though heavy rain overnight until 7.30am had left the roads very wet and filthy in places. Perfect riding weather otherwise!

As things were quite leisurely at the last pause before town a few of us decided to have a bit of a leg stretch to Credenhill. With a few strong/rested looking guys there, I broke away very early before Yazor, got a good gap and pushed hard for ~2 miles before being caught by Simon and 1 other. Struggled to get on either's wheel but the next two who passed, I did. I recovered ok and did a brief turn catching the first two on the first of a couple of rises into Credenhill. My puncheur skills came to the fore and I was able to drop 3 of them carrying some good speed onto the first rise, then it was just a straight up power game on the final steeper bit of the climb with the other guy (younger lad, defo lighter than me!). Surprised I had enough left to outsprint him @28/29mph! Really good fun, although my quads are feeling it today!

After a coffee and chat back at the shop I was going to loop out further home but a couple of rough gear changes and a headwind home changed my mind. Got back and realised I'd broken a QuickLink! #wattagebazooka!

Roads were dirty around here but wasn't what I'd consider a filthy/muddy ride... Some pics of real mud for Chris!

Spoiler

 

[Roady]

You said you were prepared to spend up to £1k, granted a limit not a target.

You wouldn't need to worry about the cost of batteries with AAA's and have fun packing your cranks to take abroad

I know, I know...! For me now I'm reading more and more into what different issues people have had, along with the support I'm using that to reassure me and guide my choice. So many people seem to send Stages back, but they don't change much, good support & fickle devices. 4iiii poor support & poor devices. SRM slow support but good devices. Garmin good but slow support, generally good devices, lots of online help & spares. Powertap good support, some local service centres and generally good devices.

The batteries with the P1's, the caps (corrosion & water ingress) is whats slightly turned me off them. I know Powertap were very good about sending replacement caps and servicing units with the v1 version of the caps, but there is still a large number of users reporting poor battery life. Even some suggesting battery variations in physical size can cause problems and not to run 'mismatched' pairs of different branded/type batteries (as it can cause 'pedal indexing' every time you ride). How have you found yours?

The same can be said for any relatively 'new' technology. The longer you wait the more affordable it will become and equally the less depreciation you'll suffer on re-sale.

Ultimately you either need to make your damn mind up or stop winding us all up in the interim Pick one, enjoy it and put something else on your wish list

I think the only way to avoid lots of depreciation would be getting a G3 hub and getting it laced to an 808!

You know I'm pretty rubbish (read: slow) at making choices, I was just sharing my thought process in here hoping (long term) it helps someone else with a similar dilemma and (short term) to make sure I've not missed anything obvious. Sorry if it's ultimately very annoying for some of you who are uninterested! I know someone had me on ignore due to my multi-quoting, I wonder how many now...

First metric century of the year. Bit of a tough ride. Strava says suffer score of 203. Won't be doing much this afternoon!
https://www.strava.com/activities/846853825

Brutal but great ride! Kudos!

But I agree the sale does take make the sting of Rapha's prices slightly more bearable. 2 sets for £60-70 each last week

Damn that's good, which ones? I've been trying to snag a some Brevet shorts online but they seem to sell S/H at great prices still! Bleh. I want some to Turbo in to help me avoid some saddle sores, guess I should just go Team Wiggins intead!

Either that or slip joint pliers and push the links together.

Long nose pliers also work, I have been known to do it with zip ties before but that was painful and long winded. The wiggle cheapy (<£3) chain link pliers are worth getting.

 

[Shadowness]

Had a go at an FTP test earlier, as I've been off the bike for a few days (but mainly eating birthday cake etc as it was my 30th )

https://www.strava.com/activities/849265614

Managed to hold 317W for the 20 mins, which equates to an FTP of 301W

As I'm hovering around 75kgs at the moment, that means just over 4W/Kg, which I'm pretty chuffed at.

I know there are many other number to measure performance, but I'm still new to the world of power numbers etc

 

[BennyC]

e. Even some suggesting battery variations in physical size can cause problems and not to run 'mismatched' pairs of different branded/type batteries (as it can cause 'pedal indexing' every time you ride). How have you found yours?

No worries I was feeling particularly impatient that day

Lithium batteries are what's recommended and having used Alkaline in my ignorance I can confirm the battery life is far poorer by comparison, probably closer to half or less than of Lithium. They still work absolutely fine either way but it might be a false economy to use Alkaline.

I've used mine in wet conditions and wash the bike regularly and since the initial corrosion inside one cap (that I was able to clear up myself) which I'm certain couldn't have been from typical water ingress, they've been fine and it hasn't reoccurred. (touch wood...).

 

[lordrobs]

Long nose pliers also work, I have been known to do it with zip ties before but that was painful and long winded. The wiggle cheapy (<£3) chain link pliers are worth getting.

My ones were just too fat to get in between the links Thanks for the tip Johnny, I did have a look but with zero chance of getting out for a ride last night anyway I decided to wait for my pliers to arrive today to sort it out.

 

[Roady]

Had a go at an FTP test earlier, as I've been off the bike for a few days (but mainly eating birthday cake etc as it was my 30th )

https://www.strava.com/activities/849265614

Managed to hold 317W for the 20 mins, which equates to an FTP of 301W

Spoiler

As I'm hovering around 75kgs at the moment, that means just over 4W/Kg, which I'm pretty chuffed at.

I know there are many other number to measure performance, but I'm still new to the world of power numbers etc

Good work and good numbers! Anything over 3w/kg is good territory. I know a guy around your weight who races well in CAT3 with at around 4w/kg. He's a PT and a monster on any incline, some slightly heavier guys push him on the flats for pure speed/power but he's unmatched on most of the rides with any climbing.

Nearly finished this at work, still to fit the Dura ace chain and that should do it.

Spoiler

Felt IA10 so the cheaper frame without the front brake fairing but a proper plastic cover for the junction box to sit, Quarq Riken power meter 55/42, Zipp 808 and 404 with Grand Prix TT tyres 25/23mm and dura ace chain/11-13 cassette.

Beautiful bike & build, although for the money that prob cost I'd be annoyed about the exposed front brake/cables!

No worries I was feeling particularly impatient that day

You were mean! I figured 8pm on a friday you'd just missed the start of strictly or something

Lithium batteries are what's recommended and having used Alkaline in my ignorance I can confirm the battery life is far poorer by comparison, probably closer to half or less than of Lithium. They still work absolutely fine either way but it might be a false economy to use Alkaline.

I've used mine in wet conditions and wash the bike regularly and since the initial corrosion inside one cap (that I was able to clear up myself) which I'm certain couldn't have been from typical water ingress, they've been fine and it hasn't reoccurred. (touch wood...).

Glad/good to hear your corrosion cleared up, how regularly do you check the seals and for any moisture? Just when changing batteries?

From what I've read there's no space in the compartments to put something like a pack of silica gel in there?

Also, have you found the left (master) drains batteries much faster than the right (slave)?

 

[xdcx]

Had a go at an FTP test earlie....

Nice power for 20mins
Not me having a go this is purely to spark the conversation. I came to post this FB post my coach just put online and you had posted your CP20 result purely out of coincidence and it is quite fitting therefore.

A lot of my riders are coming to the end on their FTP aerobic foundation phase. The main emphasis has been on extensively pushing out the fitness needed and improving fatigue resistance at tempo. We have covered other areas but this has been the main focus.

As we are that dialled in to a specific watt bracket and improving time to exhaustion. I am not overly focused on functional threshold power. I work hard to find the performance bubble and once I've found it we stretch it out. The reason I do this is because I would much prefer a rider with solid resistance to fatigue then an individual with a higher 20 minute power.

The thing I find most interesting is monitoring the power duration curve, mFTP and TTE (time to exhaustion). As an example, One of my riders had the following stats at the beginning on the phase:
- 276 watt mFTP
- 32:21 TTE
So this tells me he can produce 276 watts for 32 minutes 21 seconds until he hits exhaustion. So we began training extensively and started to see TTE stretch out all the way to 63 minutes. So now he could ride at 276 watts for 63 minutes before exhaustion. This was around a 55% improvement working on this specific area. I could sense mFTP was going to rise so scheduled a CP20 test to see how he was doing. The results from the CP20 test was 338 watts. Monday morning came round and I opened up WKO4 to find mFTP was now modeled at 300 watts and TTE now at 31:18. So now the rider can ride at 300 watts for 31 minutes 18 seconds until he hits exhaustion. TTE always drops after a new threshold development.

After a short adaptation phase we now move to the next phase. What I am looking for are four things:
1 - Re establish the next performance bubble (so watt bracket)
2 - Push the stamina metric from 79 to 90.
3 - Extensively push out interval duration at the new performance bubble.
4 - Increase TTE past 60 minutes at the new 300 watt mFTP

Training needs to evolve and progress from one phase to the next. If you're still in the era of 20 minutes - 5% is threshold quickly snap out of it. Look at the riders stats above if we used that old formula. He did 338 watts for 20 minutes. This would give him a 321 watt FTP, so he can hold 321 watts for 60 minutes. He is no way near holding 321 watts for 60 minutes. He's actually at 300 watts for 31 minutes 18 seconds based from the full data set.
There are so many people with power meters riding around to ego driven wrong zones. I have to admit when I was told 20 minutes - 5% is wrong I struggled to accept it as I coached this way for years. I then embraced the change, studied hard and my riders transformation are incredible. I can't wait for the season to kick off it's going to be brilliant.

I've been training under my coach for almost a year now and we adopted the change from the typical 20mins * 0.95 to the above methods from November onwards.... I met up with him last week and done a 1x60mins effort with him so we could establish a longer time range (actual) on my power duration curve. He then took me through WKO4 and the new power duration curve/TTE/Stamina metrics and I have to say I am fully converted and 100% believe in this way of training as the way to move forward.

Last year I produced 342w for 26mins @ 59kg.... 5.79w/kg.
Could I therefore have an FTP (60min) of even 320w? Not a bloody chance. That 20min effort would put my FTP using the old stupid calculation at 5.5w/kg which is bonkers.
Since November we changed things up and it is working, really working!
Let's talk about it, hopefully I can explain some elements and we can go over it and convert some of you to the better way of thinking about all this as the way we have all been doing this for so long is pretty backwards and obsolete now I feel.

 

[randomshenans]

Roady, what had that chain seen you? 800miles?

 

[Lethal`]

Roads were dirty around here but wasn't what I'd consider a filthy/muddy ride... Some pics of real mud for Chris!

You've got an adventure / gravel bike. It's supposed to look muddy

I could have taken a photo of my MTB after yesterday's random trails for real mud

Roady, what had that chain seen you? 800miles?

I'm kinda surprised he didn't whip out the spare chain from his saddle workshop and change it there and then

 

[Roady]

I hate you all

 

[randomshenans]

Hahahahaha

 

[Roady]

Roady, what had that chain seen you? 800miles?

1830 miles, it was a KMC X11L which came with the bike. It's done better than I expected but had gone quite brown from all the salt around this winter. Fingers crossed the temperatures stay up a bit now so my new SRAM PC1130 doesn't see any!

I'm kinda surprised he didn't whip out the spare chain from his saddle workshop and change it there and then

Actually realised I don't carry a chain tool with me any longer! Had considered swapping it out (as had a QL with me) but no easy way to remove the broken parts without link pliers! Was running ok enough to ride home.

He then took me through WKO4 and the new power duration curve/TTE/Stamina metrics and I have to say I am fully converted and 100% believe in this way of training as the way to move forward.

All very interesting and have to say I agree from a coaching perspective and from your view, it's a better metric. FTP should not be as important as most seem to be placing it.

The FTP test still has it's place, but I think only really for amateur's as a fairly 'easy' measure of performance benchmarking around other training. Those 'professional' enough moving forwards with more enthusiast training, looking at coaching and racing should be looking to using more involved/informative structures and measures of power/endurance.

If you're just racing crits/circuits, intervals and FTP have their place. If you're looking at road racing then it should be more endurance and sweetspot (like TTE). I imagine it's pretty hard to measure TTE on your own in your garage on the turbo one evening after work.

 

[The_Baron]

I am getting back into triathlon after a 4 year absence and plan on buying a new bike to replace my existing Fuji Roubaix Pro. I do not want a full time trial bike and would prefer something more versatile.

Under consideration:
Giant TCR 1 (Ultegra)
Giant TCR 2 (Shimano 105)
CAAD 12 (Shimano 105)

The two Giants are mainly carbon. The Cannondale is aluminium with carbon forks like my Fuji. Anyone any experience of these bikes? Barring a small difference in weight does Ultegra feel any different than Shimano 105 and will the heavier 105s last longer?

 

[Roady]

Not a huge amount of difference between the two groupsets, although Ultegra is lighter and slightly higher quality so may actually last longer than 105.

What drew you to the TCR? It's aimed as a 'do it all race bike' (very similar to the CAAD) but as a bike more suited to Triathlon/TT you're better looking at the Propel. It's slightly more aero and comes with deeper rims, so a little more of a speed machine. But it's still a road bike so no slouch on the hills! They'll all have quite aggressive geometries (Propel/TCR and CAAD) as all aimed at racing/speed, not comfort.

I have a Defy (alu) and now I've ridden a carbon frame (Specialized Diverge) I think I'm a carbon convert! So much more comfortable. If I was racing or travelling more with a bike I'd happy have alu, but at that price bracket/end of the market carbon is affordable.

Most of the good alu frames (Giant & Cannondale are good examples of top alu frames) are equal/similar weight to most of the midrange modern carbon frames these days. There's really no weight 'penalty' for riding good alu (like there used to be). The ride is a little more harsh, but the frames will take plenty of knocks (which would worry carbon owners)!

 

[FrenchTart]

I don't think you can really say that carbon is always better than alu. From all accounts decent quality alu frames compete with decent quality carbon frames (much like cack frames of either type aren't great - though imo cack carbon probably beats cack alu).

 

[xdcx]

The FTP test still has it's place, but I think only really for amateur's as a fairly 'easy' measure of performance benchmarking around other training. Those 'professional' enough moving forwards with more enthusiast training, looking at coaching and racing should be looking to using more involved/informative structures and measures of power/endurance.

If you're just racing crits/circuits, intervals and FTP have their place. If you're looking at road racing then it should be more endurance and sweetspot (like TTE). I imagine it's pretty hard to measure TTE on your own in your garage on the turbo one evening after work.

Yeah, I agree. It really does depend on how serious you are/willing to be and where you want to take your cycling.
Having the power meter is one expense but then WKO4 purchase and the time investment in learning is very high on both counts, or also, a coach can be an expense outlay as well to have that expertise without learning yourself.

You could easily have your TTE calculated though from turbo and outdoor rides. It is a model so will use the data you do have to estimate all of these metrics. Like any decent metric based system though, the more data you have and the more accurate this is factors greatly on how useful and accurate the modeled figures are (and you need WKO4 for it, did I mention it's expensive? )

 

[BennyC]

Snip


Let's talk about it, hopefully I can explain some elements and we can go over it and convert some of you to the better way of thinking about all this as the way we have all been doing this for so long is pretty backwards and obsolete now I feel.

I'm all ears Power/Weight thread?

Edit: Derp, took a while to hit 'post' today

 

[xdcx]

I'm all ears Power/Weight thread?

Edit: Derp, took a while to hit 'post' today

Good point, maybe FT can chuck all the posts above in to the Power/Weight thread if that suits better? Make him earn his mod cookies

 

[BennyC]

Good point, maybe FT can chuck all the posts above in to the Power/Weight thread if that suits better? Make him earn his mod cookies

Something in those mod cookies...as due to his 'spwan' boost and a claimed turbo derp... he came flying past me at about 80mph on Zwift yesterday, his avatar was actually struggling to stay on the bike with one foot unclipped and leg flailling about